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Jimbobjeff
04-01-2006, 16:35
ok im just starting skaven and I could do with a hand. I used to play hordes of chaos(marauder heavy) and looking through the army list my main problem is that there dont seem to be any close combat units with any punch! any ideas? stormvermin are ok but still very average..... I'd also like to know how you guys equip your clanrats, Are spears any good? most games I play are around the 1000pts mark (store limit) basically if you have any tips at all the please share them because I really need it.........

p.s. main opponents are wood elves, tomb kings and lizards.

Zoink
04-01-2006, 16:55
Well I'm not really an expert, but I've tried out most of the units at some point.

Keep your clannies cheap - they'll die in droves and still hopefully win you the game! They're a bargain without the spears I reckon.

Although the spears do look kinda funky, so I might have one unit with them at some point. Maybe.

You'll win melee with CR bonuses rather than kills, so concentrate on outnumbering, outmanouvering, and outflanking your opponents.

Having said that my pestilents troops have been running riot recently - get some plague monks and censer bearers. Both are great units. Censer bearers can take out heavy cavalry if they get the charge!

Takaratie
04-01-2006, 17:11
First of all... skaven have no realy juicy punchy chaos knighty unit (mabey use some plague monks or Rat ogres for extra hitting power).
Storm vermin are nice but they are not great, and dont match most tough elite bodyguard units.
As for spears, I played skaven a while ago and I think the shield sword combo works best ( and is just darn cheap ), the little bit extra armour in cc is very nice.

For 1000 point battles I would go for the fighting Hero ( the one with the highest leadership, forgot his name).
An couple of clan rats, 3 rat swarms, some night runners ( as missile screen and stuff), slaves, and any points spare can be used for some special/ rare units.

Keep in mind that Skaven win the day by outmanouvering and outnumbering, not fighting.

Another note, dont use to many ratling guns... When I played skaven I got way to many of these (back in the days that I was an little boy that watch Predator to mutch and loved mini guns), an good rule is not to use them under 2000 points, and every 1000 points one extra if you want.

GW loyalists are still hunting me for this because it was so damn :cheese: (just buy around 5 of them and put them in the woods and concentrate your fire.. hehe this is so damn hard and sneaky :D ).

Hope this helps you on your way :angel: .

Jimbobjeff
04-01-2006, 19:14
thanks...I wont take too many ratling guns....ahem.....yes....not to many....right.... is 3 too many?

Livington
04-01-2006, 19:29
in a 1000pt game, you should only take 1(2max) weapon teams.

clanrats, max out on them.. dont worry about heavy hitting units, thats what the ratling guns/hero/ and support weaponry are for.

Takaratie
04-01-2006, 20:33
thanks...I wont take too many ratling guns....ahem.....yes....not to many....right.... is 3 too many?

Well.. if you wanna keep your friends :D ..
Ratling guns are way overpowerd, in large numbers they ruin the game..
Taking 1 or 2 keeps the balance, and is still effective.

Brother Edwin
04-01-2006, 20:50
ok im just starting skaven and I could do with a hand. I used to play hordes of chaos(marauder heavy) and looking through the army list my main problem is that there dont seem to be any close combat units with any punch! any ideas? stormvermin are ok but still very average..... I'd also like to know how you guys equip your clanrats, Are spears any good? most games I play are around the 1000pts mark (store limit) basically if you have any tips at all the please share them because I really need it.........

p.s. main opponents are wood elves, tomb kings and lizards.

The only hardcore units to break enemy by themselves are censor bearers, the rest of them win by combat res after the enemy is flanked or has had there ranks blown away by ratlings/warp lightning.

20-25 is the optimum unit size, 4 wide always. Dont bother with champions.

Every unit is good exept for rat ogres so it dosent matter what you buy at first.

My 2,000point list is:

Warlord
3 enginners
3 units of clanrats with ratlings
2 units of slaves
3 units of globadiers
2 swarms
2 tunnel teams
2 plage monk units
2 censor bearer units

Ganymede
05-01-2006, 01:13
There's loads of good stuff in the skaven list. Number one on that list is the rat swarms;they are virtually mandatory. Other good choices are basic clanrat warriors, slaves, giant rats, plague monks, gutter runners, night runners, and censer bearers.

The warpfire thrower, if difficult for a beginner to use, is an incredible piece of kit. Just one in your army is enough. Keep it where the enemy infantry will approach, and you will have a chance to cleave a unit in half with a good shot.This weapon is so undeniably skaveny that you can't get away without at one.

Brother Edwin
06-01-2006, 00:09
This weapon is so undeniably skaveny that you can't get away without at one.

Another thing to note about it is it dosent need LOS and is a skirmisher, meaning it is great for putting into the middle of woods and shooting out.

skavenguy13
06-01-2006, 00:32
I had a very good success (4 wins, 1 loss, 4 tie) at my local 1000 league with skaven. My list was something like:

chieftain with warpstone amulet
BSB with warpstone amulet and sword of might
20 clanrats, banner, musician, ratling
20 clanrats, banner, musician
20 slaves, musician
20 slaves, musician
2 rat-ogres
about 5 night runners.
5 scouts.

And I know some games I used some jezzails, other games I used something else. More night runners and a warpfire thrower, probably.

For the ratling guns: they're only overpowered if you roll 2 dice all the time. I almost always roll 3 and get a good number of misfires. For *some* reason, nobody in my club really dislikes them, they're just a dangerous weapon to pay attention to and take care of. Also, I generally play 1 ratling gun for each 1000 points. If I can, I'll use a single warpfire thrower too, they're nice.

For strong units: either rat-ogres or plague censer bearers. In my opinion, there's nothing else strong in CC, and even then you have to be careful about how you make them go in CC. I really dislike stormvermin. Also, the plague censer bearers are often not worth it because you must waste a special slot (and points) on plague monks. I don't like plague monks.

Clanrats don't seem like much, but they should be able to win most fights if used well. You have ratling guns, jezzails, globadiers, warpfire throwers and other things that can reduce enemy's number. The other way is to send slaves as bait and get a flank charge. Even slaves can win fights if they get a flank charge!


Special advice: since you play mostly against WE, TK and LM, there of course are "better" things to use. For example, ratling guns will be very difficult to protect from LM and WE. Same thing for the warp-lightning cannon. For a rare occasion, I think plague monks could be useful. They can rip easily through skeletons with higher WS, many attacks, and they won't be paralyzed by fear. Against WE, they won't panic and shoul be able to kill a lot.

Things to consider with those armies are their shooting and gutter runners. You will need slave screens to protect you from the glade guards and other WE shooters, and TK archers if your friends use them. Gutter runners might be very useful. Your frineds will surely take a liche priest, a skink priest and possibly a spellsinger. Gutter runners, either scouts or tunnelers, are often effective against wizards and sometimes against shooting too.

Against TK, kill the hierophant (magic user) at the 1st occasion. Sending a kamikaze attack of gutter runners often works.

Against wood elves, also try to kill the magic users as soon as you can because forest spells are a pain. Again, gutter runners are good at this. The exact same thing goes for the lizardmen wizards.

Against shooting, mostly skeleton archers and elf grave guard, your gutter runners can make a flank charge to easily kill them fast. But you should poison their hand weapons just in case.


As a last note, you might want to ask the WarSeer Council of Thirteen for more advice and tell us your observations about the list. You can find the link in my signature.

Ganymede
06-01-2006, 05:09
Another thing to note about it is it dosent need LOS and is a skirmisher, meaning it is great for putting into the middle of woods and shooting out.

While the warpfire thrower is indeed a skirmisher, it most definetly needs line of sight to shoot.

Here's an exerpt form the firethrower's rules.

"Place the flame template with its narrow end touching the warpfire thrower and the large part aimed at the target. The target must be in line of sight to shoot at it."

Brother Edwin
06-01-2006, 09:21
While the warpfire thrower is indeed a skirmisher, it most definetly needs line of sight to shoot.

Here's an exerpt form the firethrower's rules.

"Place the flame template with its narrow end touching the warpfire thrower and the large part aimed at the target. The target must be in line of sight to shoot at it."

Well Gav Thorps war machine article says it does not.

Sylass
06-01-2006, 10:13
Not true. The Warpfirethrower needs a line of sight.


Q: Do flame template weapons such as breath weapons, blunderbusses, and the steam cannon require Line Of Sight?
A: Yes.

(-> Q&As)

speedygogo
06-01-2006, 12:09
Skaven break all the rules. Lead from the back, sacrifice useless troops as you shoot into hand to hand combat and laugh with maniacal glee as your jezzails lay waste to the battlefield. The skaven are legalized cheating in warhammer.

skavenguy13
06-01-2006, 13:18
We don't cheat, we just... find ways to turn things at our advantage:p

But the reason those rules are there it's because it's fluffy for them! Plus, most have a backside: blowing weapons, skirmishers have low LD, you don't see anything from the back of the unit, etc.

By the way, weapon teams are NOT skirmishers. They have 360 LOS anyway though.

@jimbobjeff: if we knew what types of army your friends play, giving advice would be even easier. Examples: saurus-heavy list, lots of skeleton chariots, etc.

Jimbobjeff
06-01-2006, 15:45
most of the armies are based around a lot of core units with full characters from the tk and we but ive found out that the lizard is switching to bretonians and he has just emailed me about some horrible hero who makes me accept challenges then destroys me any ideas on how to counter this?

I thought maybe an assasin with a weeping blade hiding in my clanrats with my chieftain when he charges me I reveal him hit first and hes duke doesnt even get to hit.... or I could just snipe him withj a wlc hehehehe

Sashu
06-01-2006, 18:02
Here is a Forum for Skaven Players
http://underempire.net/index.php?
Lots of info.

A few other rules, try only one Weapon Team Per 1k points, and the same is true for for Warlocks. If you win with Skaven by shooting everying to death, your army will be considered cheese. If on the other hand you win by out manuvering you enemy and hitting his flanks and rears, you will be fine.

kingofthewoods
06-01-2006, 19:01
I need some tips on how to beat Skaven............................................ ...................don't worry i'm not planning a counter plan as you speak.

(i his brother)

Ganymede
06-01-2006, 20:10
Well Gav Thorps war machine article says it does not.

I think if you simply read the warpfire thrower entry in the skaven rulebook, you will be a lot less confused about certain things. Trust me on this one.

Ganymede
06-01-2006, 20:14
By the way, weapon teams are NOT skirmishers. They have 360 LOS anyway though.


Check out the Weapon Team special rule in skaven book, It clearly states that ratling guns and warpfire throwers are skirmishers.

patataman
06-01-2006, 20:54
Check out the Weapon Team special rule in skaven book, It clearly states that ratling guns and warpfire throwers are skirmishers.


yep he is right

pp 27 Skaven army book: "The weapon team is a skirmish unit" (Sorry for the translation mi army book is in spanish xD but thei are the same xD)

Skitter-Squeek
06-01-2006, 23:01
plague monks not that good?


Plague monks have won me more games then i can remember.... take at least 2 units of em in a two thousand and you have to have one in a 1k game.:D

patataman
06-01-2006, 23:41
plague monks not that good?


Plague monks have won me more games then i can remember.... take at least 2 units of em in a two thousand and you have to have one in a 1k game.:D


yep plague monks are realy good they have alot of damaje (and are beter whit the baner of he burning hatres)

skavenguy13
07-01-2006, 00:06
:( :o
Well, that's what I get for not double-checking. You're right on the skirmish, it's even written multiple times in French.

And about plague monks, they never did anything good for me, except when accompanied by Nurglitch or facing TK skeletons. If you had good experience with them, good for you. It just prooves that each person has different preferences and that no unit is perfect. One of my friends has rather good success with his monks too.

patataman
07-01-2006, 01:52
:( :o
Well, that's what I get for not double-checking. You're right on the skirmish, it's even written multiple times in French.

And about plague monks, they never did anything good for me, except when accompanied by Nurglitch or facing TK skeletons. If you had good experience with them, good for you. It just prooves that each person has different preferences and that no unit is perfect. One of my friends has rather good success with his monks too.


yep mi plague sometime win the game....and some time lose the game xD (principale because the bobh) xD they are erratic just like the skaven must be :D

Ganymede
07-01-2006, 03:44
Plague monks are good for two reasons. First off, they are cheap. Secondly, their frenzy makes them immune to panic. They are an incredible fire magnet, and can perform reasonably well in combat.

Skaven Lord Vinshqueek
09-01-2006, 21:34
I used to play hordes of chaos(marauder heavy) and looking through the army list my main problem is that there dont seem to be any close combat units with any punch! any ideas? stormvermin are ok but still very average.....If you're looking for punch in a skaven armylist, you must mean that odd drink they serve at parties, cause the fighting ain't the biggest asset of skaven. When playing skaven, you'll quickly notice to have a huge outnumbering army, which is where the main strength of skaven lie. As such, you should grab that advantage with both hands and ensure you always (sorry, I should stress that: ALWAYS) outnumber your opponent... And should you for some odd reason really wish to take stormvermin, then I'd seriously urge you to give them shields and never use the halberds. Why? Simply, a lousy weapon where you'd rather have an extra bit of armour save in combat!

I'd also like to know how you guys equip your clanrats, Are spears any good?This is a personal bit for me... Do you use spears for that extra fighting rank, or do you go for the handweapon and thus a better armoursave. I prefer the latter one, though this is eventually up to you.

most games I play are around the 1000pts mark (store limit) basically if you have any tips at all the please share them because I really need it.........An old tournament list of mine:
- chieftain, warpstone armour, handweapon, shield
- warlock engineer, warp-blades, UWEC, storm daemon, dispel scroll
- 2x 24 clanrats, standard, musician, ratling gun
- 20 slaves, musician
- 7 night runners
- 3 globadiers
- 3 swarms
- 2 giant rat packs
- 6 tunnel runners, two poisoned handweapons
Yes, I know about the two ratling guns and that people might consider it to be cheese. Some people even told me not to be able to think out any tactic, apart from shooting my opponent to oblivion. Well, stuff that... I'm a notorious Skryre-warlord, so usually one of them blows up very quickly. And yes, the total eighteen misfires during the first three matches of the tourney, seriously mark out that bad luck.

p.s. main opponents are wood elves, tomb kings and lizards.*whistles*... I've played all of them, though not in their current form. (Serious absence of all three of those armies where I live).

Greetz

Gratnuk Ironfist
26-01-2006, 09:44
And what I've found important especially vs shooty and magic armies is don't hesitate and I mean DO NOT HESITATE, cause that's what gives them an extra turn to whittle your numbers and ensure that by the time you get into combat you wont outnumber them and that's a big no-no.

zKoTTe
29-01-2006, 20:36
:( :o
Well, that's what I get for not double-checking. You're right on the skirmish, it's even written multiple times in French.

And about plague monks, they never did anything good for me, except when accompanied by Nurglitch or facing TK skeletons. If you had good experience with them, good for you. It just prooves that each person has different preferences and that no unit is perfect. One of my friends has rather good success with his monks too.

i agree on that point, i only have one unit of Plague Monks with a priest with a flail and that is enough for me. On the other way do i never use Jezzails, WLC or Weapon teams because they are simply to unreliable to me (and i always blow them up)

Razhem
29-01-2006, 22:54
I personally love my monks (no burning hatred though,itīs screwed me up more than a couple a times), because theyīr wonderful fire magnets,inmuno to psycology (VERY VERY important to at least have the bloodthirsty devils being reliable in that sense) and is our only unit with a combat bang (stormvermin arenīt for killing and never had succes with ratogres). I love more the censer bearers, or they do nothing, or they anahilate what they touch, fun people they are :evilgrin:
The stormvermin are has been said, to be taken with sheilds and mostly defend, the 3+ save is usually more useful than strenght 4 (memories of hordes list when they had base strenght 4...), I usually field them , but itīs mostly cause I painted all 24 of them, so itīs more of a put them to use thing, normaly bether out with a ratclan and slave unit.

meowser
31-01-2006, 02:09
if you're just starting to collect your army, i'd suggest going for plague monks and censer bearers as your hitty units.. they are cheap (plastic regiments), and they wont get your numbers down like rat ogres will. and not to mention you get 16(!) plastic rats with the plague monk box, which means giant rats or rat swarms for free... both of which are a must

tormvermin i am a personal fan of (27 and counting) but they are expensive.

tunnel teams look like a shoe in considering your opponents, so get a night runner box as well, and you can use extras for night runners or extra slaves/warriors

Fall from grace
23-05-2009, 22:34
If you like winning more than you like people take a ratling with every unit that can.

It's the Skaven way:evilgrin:

P.S. Only do this if you really don't like your opponent coz after the game they REALLY!!! won't like you anymore.

Shamfrit
23-05-2009, 23:38
Plague Monks run optimum, or so I've found, at 18, 3X6 wide, with additional hand weapons and a standard bearer/musician. No more, no less - run them with a unit of 7 Plague Censer Bearers in a 2k/2250 list and they hit hard if you can screen them - which is what Night Runners are for!

fubukii
24-05-2009, 02:38
i find the only reason to take plague monks is for taking plague censer bearers. yu will find out that monks despite peoples claims of them being killy are actually not effective at it. unless the unit has LOW ws, Low toughness and a poor save, then they die fast :)

id totally avoid rat swarms, with the new crumble rules they are horribly over pointed.

things id suggest:

warlords - great generals, best ld possible, good at stacking Overkill bonuses with weeping blade.
Grey seer- another good option for general, packs a punch in the magic phase, best with some sort of ward/regen.
warlocks - full kit minus pistol, these guys lay down alot of hurt and are skavens answer to anything tough. id suggest at least 2-3 in most games.
chieftans - kinda crappy heroes, extremely fragile, not very killy and not worth taking unless its a bsb. I advise against taking the swarm banner on him unless a unit in your army already has the warbanner. the warbanner is better then the swarm banner always.
Plague priest - a good CC hero, armed with a plague censer, and a cheap warp save he is very point efficent
assassins - kinda over priced and iffy overal, they are ok with warpstone stars but not really worth it.
clanrats - run them in blocks of 25 or 30 no spears full cmd. take advantage of static CR, and +ld boost.
slaves 21 or 25 man strong musician.
Swarms - do not take.
Pwg - take in units of 2-3, look great on paper but needing a 4+ to hit then wound is extremely iffy. a unit of 10 will only cause 2.5 wounds on average not to impressive, and extremely short ranged and easy to panic.
Night runners good cheap screens. i like these in units of 5, to claim table corners and cheap deployment options. Never give 2hw as even with it they still suck in combat and die in droves.
gutter runners, good with tunnel , and posioned hw. 4-6 man units is prefered good at killing mages and war machines and light missle units.
Wpn teams - good at killing things, i prefer ratling guns over WFT.
jezzails - good en mass, but weak in small numbers. I suggest if you take jezzails you need at least 9. good at killing large targets with high armor, decent at killing knights (poor bs but packs a punch)
Monks: kinda iffy in cc and not survivable. Most units in todays game, roll right through them but the most basic of units. dont really kill to much without some good luck. i take them if i want to run a weaker list or i just want PCB.
Rat ogres - weak choice, panic easy, dont hit that hard, poor ws, poor ld, over priced if you have a rare slot open take a unit of ironguts instead.
WLC - good overal, great for killing big targets or knights if you roll average. in addition they do not randomize hits in close combat they just hit what they hit, great for shaving off ranks before a round of combat. easily terrored and chased off by flyers, if not protected well.
PCB - best cc unit in the skaven army period.


thats a really quick summary of the army.