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Killboss
13-07-2009, 18:07
Hi, i've been browsing over the sheets on the GW site, and found a potentially dangerous very usful Eldar one... THe shadow walker War walker squadren.

The datasheet can be found here
http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m2440062_Eldar_Datasheet_-_Shadow_Walker_Formation.pdf


I was hoping to get feedback from those in our community that have one, and how it goes, what's your layout etc

I'd also like to hear what our famed Eldar tacticins have to say about it (yes, Irisado, that's you.)

darker4308
13-07-2009, 18:10
You can't use it outside apoc. so your very rarly going to use it. does it work though ... all i can say is that apoc. isn't ment to be a balanced game. It stands to cut infantry to bits however, armor 10 stuff is going to get blown to bits....fast.

badguyshaveallthefun
13-07-2009, 18:12
It's kind of a one-hit-wonder. It will decimate whatever it shoots at the first turn, and then get destroyed in your next opponents phase. You can't guide it with a farseer either so you're stuck with only their standard 50% accuracy. I don't like it personally.

eyescrossed
14-07-2009, 00:20
It looks quite overpowered for the ability to basically Deep Strike without any scatter and fire your weapons twice for an additional 50 points. This is worse than the Screamer Killer Brood.

Killboss
14-07-2009, 14:33
It looks quite overpowered for the ability to basically Deep Strike without any scatter and fire your weapons twice for an additional 50 points. This is worse than the Screamer Killer Brood.

I knew how you'd feel, and i don't neccesarily disagree but... It might actually be the answer to a certain problem i have in apoc (its a new problem, and you know what i mean.) Any way, i just wanna try it once... for fun, hell i'll forfit the game as long as i can have 1 turn of shooting with x2 WW squads in this formation.



It's kind of a one-hit-wonder. It will decimate whatever it shoots at the first turn, and then get destroyed in your next opponents phase. You can't guide it with a farseer either so you're stuck with only their standard 50% accuracy. I don't like it personally.

To compensate for the accuracy, you give them scatter lasers :D


You can't use it outside apoc. so your very rarly going to use it. does it work though ... all i can say is that apoc. isn't ment to be a balanced game. It stands to cut infantry to bits however, armor 10 stuff is going to get blown to bits....fast.

Yes, i know that, its a data sheet, and you can fit alot of warwalkers into a list (9) so i can (not that i would) eccentually be using one outside apoc.

pookie
14-07-2009, 14:57
WW can be taken down by small arms, field 9 if you want, but expect them to fall over fairly quickly.

i can see some good uses for them, but i personally wouldnt want to field that many things that can essentially be taken down with Bolter fire.

Killboss
14-07-2009, 15:18
WW can be taken down by small arms, field 9 if you want, but expect them to fall over fairly quickly.

i can see some good uses for them, but i personally wouldnt want to field that many things that can essentially be taken down with Bolter fire.

I also said i could use most (if not all) of the walkers in 1 game.... i meant to say i wouldn't.
What, you mean like the whole Eldar army, besides its tanks?

eyescrossed
14-07-2009, 15:22
I also said i could use most (if not all) of the walkers in 1 game.... i meant to say i wouldn't.
What, you mean like the whole Eldar army, besides its tanks?

He has a point, though. Of course Dire Avengers and Guardians can get taken down by Bolters - that's what Bolters are for. But when a vehicle doesn't have any way to get protection, and they're pretty damn expensive, and they get taken down by an infantry standard weapon? :wtf:

Ozendorph
14-07-2009, 17:22
He has a point, though. f course Dire Avengers and Guardians can get taken down by Bolters - that's what Bolters are for. But when a vehicle doesn't have any way to get protection, and they're pretty damn expensive, and they get taken down by an infantry standard weapon? :wtf:

With the exception of shuri-cannons all the WW weapons out-range bolters by a fair margin, and of courses if the Marines have to move into range they generally won't be able to fire that turn (bikes and termies being exceptions). That's protection of a sort.

Killboss
14-07-2009, 17:54
He has a point, though. f course Dire Avengers and Guardians can get taken down by Bolters - that's what Bolters are for. But when a vehicle doesn't have any way to get protection, and they're pretty damn expensive, and they get taken down by an infantry standard weapon? :wtf:

Same can be said for every aspect warrior, vipers and a tank with an exposed rear.... you know... the whole eldar army (besides the imfamous wraithlord, uness we count hellfire rounds) can be boltered to death.... i only just realised that.... wow.....

WW arn't that expensive, a WW with 2 scatter lasers is 60 points.

bnrweimann
14-07-2009, 22:40
Hhhhmmm. A couple of squadrons w/ bright lances might be a fairly cheap answer to killing an enemy super-heavy, but that's about the only application I can see. As others have said, war walkers are just too fragile. I wouldn't expect to get a second round of firing....

avatarofportent
14-07-2009, 23:16
I saw this bad boy used in a apocalypse game. He appeared with 9 war walkers with shuriken cannons S6 right into the ass end of an imperial mechanized assault. There were many tanks toasted due to hitting in the rear armor. It was gross. Half them died later in the game. But it was stopped on turn 3.

Killboss
15-07-2009, 07:27
I saw this bad boy used in a apocalypse game. He appeared with 9 war walkers with shuriken cannons S6 right into the ass end of an imperial mechanized assault. There were many tanks toasted due to hitting in the rear armor. It was gross. Half them died later in the game. But it was stopped on turn 3.

They may say alive IF they come on a reasonably unpopulated flank and then just shoot it with 160 S6 AP6 shots... Makes up for the accuracy flaw as well. It is also possible that the opponent will bring in all of his/her reserves just to kill it, but then he/she has commited all of that turns reserves to 1 flank, not to mention 1 whole turn of that flank's fire on 10 WW and not your army :) Though that is highly presumptuous.

As i said before, i just want to try it 1 time, with a big unit just so i can actually destroy all of those models... so im not getting to involved with it. Or maybe i'd use it with just 3 WWs, would that be more fair?

pookie
15-07-2009, 12:25
I also said i could use most (if not all) of the walkers in 1 game.... i meant to say i wouldn't.
What, you mean like the whole Eldar army, besides its tanks?

well obviosuly most eldaar fall over when you point a flash light at them :D

what i mean is that they ( if you fielded 9 ) could use a lot of points that would be better used on other Units. although these units maybe taken down by Bolter fire, will take more time to whittle them down down, one lucky bolter shot can take out a Warwalker, it takes a lot of luck to wipe out a 10 Man Gaurdian sqd with a sqauds worth of bolter fire ( unless its rapid and then id be asking why are you so close and whats your warlock upto? ), which next turn needs to be again redirected at finishing the sqd off, as aposed to being able to target a seperate unit if it had taken out the War Walker.

one thing you should realise tho is a as a gamer, ive always have and will depend on feet on the ground rather than armoured support, which ive never been very fond of. its just a quirke as a gamer that i take next to no, if any at all Tanks/Armour.

Killboss
15-07-2009, 13:44
Although these units maybe taken down by Bolter fire, will take more time to whittle them down down, one lucky bolter shot can take out a Warwalker, it takes a lot of luck to wipe out a 10 Man Gaurdian sqd with a sqauds worth of bolter fire ( unless its rapid and then id be asking why are you so close and whats your warlock upto? )

one thing you should realise tho is a as a gamer, ive always have and will depend on feet on the ground rather than armoured support, which ive never been very fond of. its just a quirke as a gamer that i take next to no, if any at all Tanks/Armour.

Ummm.... 1 bolter shot can in no way destroy a single undamage WW by itself (unless its from a heavy bolter) seeing as the S4 shot VS AV10 can only reslve in a glance if anyhting, and then even if your opponent gets a 6 its downgraded to a 4... immobilised which, if in a squad will destroy 1 WW but its not like you're going to 6 sixes in a row. The squad would have to turn around and fire at the WW squad more the 1 time.... more then 2 if its a bigger unit, unless freakishly lucky (presuming they only use bolters.)


My army is actually a footslogging one. The only Eldar armour i have are 3 WWs and a Fire prism.

pookie
15-07-2009, 14:40
Ummm.... 1 bolter shot can in no way destroy an undamage WW by itself (unless its from a heavy bolter) seeing as the S4 shot VS AV10 can only reslve in a glance if anyhting, and then even if your opponent gets a 6 its downgraded to a 4... immobilised which, if in a squad will destroy 1 WW but its not like you're going to 6 sixes in a row. The squad would have to turn around and fire at the WW squad more the 1 time.... more then 2 if its a bigger unit, unless freakishly lucky (presuming they only use bolters.)


My army is actually a footslogging one. The only Eldar armour i have are 3 WWs and a Fire prism.


so in the same parargraph a Bolter cant destroy a WW it also can? not a very convincing argument to take them imo.

when fielded as a Sqaudron, your actually at a disadvantage even more so then, for the points you'l spend on WW's how many Gaurdians could you have?

look at it that way, 3 WW take a minimum of 3 shots to take out ( regrdless of what you fire at em), 30 Gaurdians take a Minimum of 30. ( if that explains where im coming from better )

when it comes to statistics on dice roles, you can play the game like that if you want, ive enough experiance to know that averages aint as average as you think and there will be times when you see 4/5 sixes being roled one after the other. ( in the same vane its possible to see multiple 1's come up as well).

my point still stands, feet on the floor are better imo than vehicles/walkers etc.

saarkvansoor
15-07-2009, 19:16
In Apocalypse, feet on the floor are not necessarily worth more than a well placed surprise assault. Bodies are just that, bodies. Hit the area with a Str D weapon and none of the troops survive, but 33% of those walkers may. They won't get pinned, can't be stunned and can split up to find more juicy targets.

Now would I rather spend the same points on a few Wave Serpents full of Fire Dragons with Flank March? Sure. But 144 Scatter Laser Shots at up to six different targets (each squadron fires twice) is still significant.

Killboss
15-07-2009, 19:39
so in the same parargraph a Bolter cant destroy a WW it also can? not a very convincing argument to take them imo.

when fielded as a Sqaudron, your actually at a disadvantage even more so then, for the points you'l spend on WW's how many Gaurdians could you have?

look at it that way, 3 WW take a minimum of 3 shots to take out ( regrdless of what you fire at em), 30 Gaurdians take a Minimum of 30. ( if that explains where im coming from better )

when it comes to statistics on dice roles, you can play the game like that if you want, ive enough experiance to know that averages aint as average as you think and there will be times when you see 4/5 sixes being roled one after the other. ( in the same vane its possible to see multiple 1's come up as well).

my point still stands, feet on the floor are better imo than vehicles/walkers etc.


It's now changed to SINGLE WW, obviously that was too much left to infer.

Well, no matter how much you say so, i'll always take WWs over Guardians any day, i'll take ANYTHING over Guardians, i don't like them, they're too fragile (ironic seeing as we're tlking about eldar,) they can't aim (campared to the other troops) and i just find them an annoyance.... I just don't like them.

Actually, it doesn't matter if you shoot 498619849486946 lasguns at the WW, they wont die. 30 shots for 30 guardians eh? Try ones that run off after taking 15 wounds.... they're not a problem anymore, WWs arn't plauged with annoying LD, and i'd still prefer my chances with 30 bolter shots vs WWs then 30 bolter shots vs Guardians.

And i know statistics don't mean all that much, to quote Perry Cox "Statistics mean nothing to the indavidal" I don't live+die by them, i just prefer to listen to them then they happen to say IF the WW is in a squad, then the opponent will need to get a hit, and then 2 6's to KO it THEN when the odds are against you there, that's when i'll listen. I also know how Tzeentchian the dice can be, i've gone from seeing 4 our of 16 shots hit (due to guardians :() to seeing 5 pathfinders take out a devilfish... from the front.

I do agree with you that, the dice are more fickle then the average Eldar seer but, i will always take WWs (squad or not) as opposed to Guardians (unless they're storm guardians... x2 flamers or x2 Fusion guns? yes please)


I do honestly prefer a your "feet on floor" approach,(reguarding WWs as "feet on floor" units, as they have feet, they're on the floor AND move like infantry) with the exception of a few vehcles...

But as i said, i hate guardians, IMO the only thing i can think of them doing that is good (baring rare circumstances) is objective sitting. The rare circumstance is; if they found their way into reasonable range (12ish") with a starcannon/scatter laser (depending on opponents MEQ/Horde respectivly) and a guideseer to make sure they don't screw up the shooting. I honestly can't find any more words to explain why i don't like the guardians... its not the models, they've got the aim of a guardsmen (so any guard player or average 'nid player... like myslef can deal with it) and they can have potentially destructive weapons.... hmmm, maybe its just a mystery...



But are you honestly saying, you prefer models with a T value to tanks? Seriously, how any do you field? if any.

eyescrossed
16-07-2009, 15:07
Not do go against you, but Killboss, 30 Bolter shots get 3 Glancing hits against a squadron of Warwalkers, which means there's a 50/50 chance one will die, and that's only on one of the dice rolls.

30 Bolter shots at Guardians will kill 7, assuming they aren't Fortuned. Even if, for some random reason they aren't in cover (which is ridiculous in itself), it'll kill 14, which isn't enough to force a Leadership Test.

pookie
16-07-2009, 16:11
But are you honestly saying, you prefer models with a T value to tanks? Seriously, how any do you field? if any.

yes i do, and i always will. 16+ years of gaming has shown me you dont need anything other than feet on the ground.

i field 0 vehicles, yep Zero. i do have a LR, 2 Rhinos, and a DP - but these are for modeling purposes only, they never get used to game with.

**actually thats a lie, i also field Dreads

Killboss
16-07-2009, 17:33
Not do go against you, but Killboss, 30 Bolter shots get 3 Glancing hits against a squadron of Warwalkers, which means there's a 50/50 chance one will die, and that's only on one of the dice rolls.

30 Bolter shots at Guardians will kill 7, assuming they aren't Fortuned. Even if, for some random reason they aren't in cover (which is ridiculous in itself), it'll kill 14, which isn't enough to force a Leadership Test.

So, you're saying that in a unit of 20 guardians (that max squad) losing 70% of their squad (if they're not in cover) won't cause a LD test? That's funny, i thought is was 50% casualties and then you take a test at the end of the phase.

And losing 7 (or 14) of the guardians is also just one result. I still don't like them, though i think i can tell you all why. It was a battle against well... you, and i was using your guardians, i measured thinking "yeah, they'll be in range" like 3 were, the i got only 2 hits of something pissy like that and no wounds... That bad experience has stained my inpression of them for ages. I also just find DAs a more appealing option (for 4 more points per model, they are actually quite a bit better, IMO, unless you want lots of guardians...


yes i do, and i always will. 16+ years of gaming has shown me you dont need anything other than feet on the ground.

i field 0 vehicles, yep Zero. i do have a LR, 2 Rhinos, and a DP - but these are for modeling purposes only, they never get used to game with.

**actually thats a lie, i also field Dreads
Wow... i could learn a few things from you.

Ozendorph
16-07-2009, 17:57
Keep in mind it's not unheard of for WWs to get cover saves as well ;)

eyescrossed
17-07-2009, 02:48
That's funny, i thought is was 50% casualties and then you take a test at the end of the phase.

That's funny, I thought you said



30 shots for 30 guardians eh?

Yep, you did. I got this confused and thought you meant 30 Guardians. My bad, but even though it's illegal to field a 30 man squad, there's no need to reply sarcastically.

pookie
17-07-2009, 09:07
Wow... i could learn a few things from you.

Some People Swear by Vehicles ( or things with a AV ) i Just dont, though the reason isnt as simple as you may think.

when you have 1 Sqaudron of 3 WW lets say, and 3 Units of Gaurdians you have to way up a few things.

the WW Sqd in theory can be taken down with one good round of shooting from 1 Unit that has weapons S4 or up, where as that 1 unit cannot possible take on 3 Seperate Units in one round of shooting regardless of Strength.

although i agree DA are better than Gaurdians, the thing that would sway it for me is that the Gaurdian Unit can also have a Warlock, who with the Conceal power can gift a very nice 5+ cover save to them, which means they can survive for longer when the big guns are brought to bear on them as opposed to a WW sqaudron who is hit by the same fire power.

Harfaern
17-07-2009, 09:28
But 144 Scatter Laser Shots at up to six different targets (each squadron fires twice) is still significant.

Actually, the datasheet states "may fire each weapon twice", so I think you can only have one target per squad...but is still significant.

vman
17-07-2009, 10:05
Im sure this formattion has its uses

Picture this. Opposing player is silly enough to leave his reaver/warwalked within 12" of a tables edge. You bring in 9 warwalkers, armed to the teeth and enter the battlefield inside of his void shields, effectively leaving the Titan with only its structural points.

Moral of the story is that this formation could take down a reaver.

Killboss
18-07-2009, 10:16
That's funny, I thought you said



Yep, you did. I got this confused and thought you meant 30 Guardians. My bad, but even though it's illegal to field a 30 man squad, there's no need to reply sarcastically.

Eh... not like you've never done it to me.

Also, im not too familiar with the finer points of the 'test if you're chicken' 40K rules, but do you still need to for 25%? and if so, there, i didn't post it before because well.... read the first line.



Im sure this formattion has its uses

Picture this. Opposing player is silly enough to leave his reaver/warwalked within 12" of a tables edge. You bring in 9 warwalkers, armed to the teeth and enter the battlefield inside of his void shields, effectively leaving the Titan with only its structural points.

Moral of the story is that this formation could take down a reaver.

This formation is waaaaaaaay over powered especially in big units, i mean, immagine 20 of them.... they could take down anything (if they were armed right) and for only 50 points, whoever made that must be on something very good....