PDA

View Full Version : Shaman on wyvern, common or savage?



Urgat
14-07-2009, 16:59
Ok, I've got the 5th edition shaman on wyvern which I'm slowly painting. Now the shaman itself is a happy medium between a normal orc and a savage one. So I am not too sure how to paint it >> Therefore, it's gameplay that will decide it, I suppose.
So teher you go, what would you prefer, any way to make one that is better than the other? The normal shaman being, well, a normal shaman, doesn't have any special benefit or drawback. The savage one has, of course, frenzy, which ain't bad at all for the wyvern (+1 attack, won't spit on that), but must charge, which is not always good, especially when it is a rather fragile shaman on top of it. The rather useless ward save won't change that much either.
So it's down to wargear and magic items. Now I don't want the wand of Kaloth (the thing is taking enough chances already just by putting a lord shaman on top of a wyvern, adding a rather expensive item for virtually zero benefit is not my thing), what item setup would make either kind viable, or, even, superior to the other, according to you?

Witchblade
14-07-2009, 17:07
Normal shaman. You don't want to have to charge anything scarier than war machine crew, a cavalry's flank or fast cavalry.

decker_cky
14-07-2009, 17:08
Take waagh paint and the sword that gives you +1 ST and +1 attack for each character in range. If you take a normal shaman, give him the 5+ ward. You should very often have combat lord stats regardless of whether you have a savage or normal shaman.

Flying frenzied terror causers aren't terribly vulnerable since you can manoeuvre them to have lots of units in charge range. Is it worth the risk? Probably. It likely gives you 2 S6 attacks extra, which is pretty good. You have to be careful with the wyvern regardless.


Normal shaman. You don't want to have to charge anything scarier than war machine crew, a cavalry's flank or fast cavalry.

When in range of 2 heroes, the savage shaman would have 4 S6 attacks along with his wyverns 4 S6 attacks. The shaman can handle itself pretty well.

Urgat
14-07-2009, 17:43
Mmh, good idea, the waaagh paint, I've always considered it useless, but since the shaman is on a wyvern, he's a large target and can still draw LoS on other units while in melee... Wish I had tmy BRB though, I don't remember exactly how it works, the restrictions to casting spells while in melee. I seem to remember one can't cast magic missiles at all, regardless of LoS, right? Since there's only one such spell in the Big Waaagh (first one, unfortunately), shouldn't be too bothersome.

Ok, what about that: Savage orc shaman on wyvern, Shaga's Screamin' sword (+1A & S for nearby enemy characters, especially useful on a flying character), Waaagh paint (to take advantage from both a shaman that will probably end up in melee and is large target), amulet of protectyness (weedy enemies should not be able to fight back after that dude charged, and mean enemies are usually the ones with big saves/wards). And to round it up, the Itty Ring, which should be fun on a flying character that can draw LoS over about everything.
Total cost is steep though, 95 pts of magic item, and 420 for the shaman+wyvern for a total of 515 points... Darn.

But... it's even WYSIWYG: that shaman got a sword, is screaming, and got a ring :p I won't even count the amulets hanging from his belt.

rtunian
14-07-2009, 17:50
the painting doesn't have to define it as savage, due to the waaagh! paint arcane item. then you can just as easily say it's a normal orc w/ paint as a savage orc.

what about this loadout?
sham, wyvern, lv4... sword of striking, waaagh! paint, effigy of mork, power stone - 500
+1 to hit, +2 to cast in combat, -1 to be hit, and a pair of contingency power dice

i've only used the wyvern sham once, in the above build, and had preposterous success (dice gods). the game ended in concession after my turn 2. of course, there were 2 lv.2 shams, one with the itty ring, and a lv.1 sham in my list too, so i was able to bypass dispel dice

decker_cky
14-07-2009, 18:01
Mmh, good idea, the waaagh paint, I've always considered it useless, but since the shaman is on a wyvern, he's a large target and can still draw LoS on other units while in melee... Wish I had tmy BRB though, I don't remember exactly how it works, the restrictions to casting spells while in melee. I seem to remember one can't cast magic missiles at all, regardless of LoS, right? Since there's only one such spell in the Big Waaagh (first one, unfortunately), shouldn't be too bothersome.

Pretty much exactly right. No MM, but other spells are usable unless they say that they can't be used in combat.


Ok, what about that: Savage orc shaman on wyvern, Shaga's Screamin' sword (+1A & S for nearby enemy characters, especially useful on a flying character), Waaagh paint (to take advantage from both a shaman that will probably end up in melee and is large target), amulet of protectyness (weedy enemies should not be able to fight back after that dude charged, and mean enemies are usually the ones with big saves/wards). And to round it up, the Itty Ring, which should be fun on a flying character that can draw LoS over about everything.
Total cost is steep though, 95 pts of magic item, and 420 for the shaman+wyvern for a total of 515 points... Darn.

But... it's even WYSIWYG: that shaman got a sword, is screaming, and got a ring :p I won't even count the amulets hanging from his belt.

Amulet of protectiness sounds like a good idea. T5 6+ ward isn't wonderful against some opponents, so that'll hopefully make the difference. But I agree with the thinking you've used on why items make sense.

Good luck!

Urgat
14-07-2009, 18:03
the painting doesn't have to define it as savage, due to the waaagh! paint arcane item. then you can just as easily say it's a normal orc w/ paint as a savage orc.

Yeah, but if I paint it as a savage orc, I want to paint paint (d'huh :p) on the wyvern too :)


what about this loadout?
sham, wyvern, lv4... sword of striking, waaagh! paint, effigy of mork, power stone - 500
+1 to hit, +2 to cast in combat, -1 to be hit, and a pair of contingency power dice

i've only used the wyvern sham once, in the above build, and had preposterous success (dice gods). the game ended in concession after my turn 2. of course, there were 2 lv.2 shams, one with the itty ring, and a lv.1 sham in my list too, so i was able to bypass dispel dice

Mmh, that setup would be good, but I can't use it: Both the sword of striking and the effigy of Mork are kept for other characters that need them, unfortunately; well unless I play a different list, that is, but I don't really see myself play the flying shaman under 3000 points anyway, so those characters would be in the list.

Disclaimer: there's a very lame pun concealed somewhere in this post, will you be able to find it? :p

decker_cky
14-07-2009, 18:13
but I don't really see myself play the flying shaman under 3000 points anyway, so those characters would be in the list.

Why not? IMO it's both one of the better ways to get a flying lord in 2000 pts, and one of the better ways to take a magic heavy orc list. He's not as much of a risk as the lord since he won't be the general, and he won't suffer from animosity so will make a better use of your magic phase. Support him with a goblin shaman in a chariot and you have a decent animosity free magic phase.

Urgat
14-07-2009, 19:57
Pretty much exactly right. No MM, but other spells are usable unless they say that they can't be used in combat.[quote]
Ok, perfect :)

[QUOTE=decker_cky;3765220]Why not? IMO it's both one of the better ways to get a flying lord in 2000 pts, and one of the better ways to take a magic heavy orc list. He's not as much of a risk as the lord since he won't be the general, and he won't suffer from animosity so will make a better use of your magic phase. Support him with a goblin shaman in a chariot and you have a decent animosity free magic phase.

Well, I'm not a fan of magic at all. Mostly, I bought that mini because I wanted the mini itself, not really to play it, but to complete my army. But well, I can try anyway, at least :) But that would be quite a wild departure from my usual all gob army, hence why I consider him a point filler for massive games, in fact.

w3rm
15-07-2009, 01:54
Best setup IMO would be

Orc Shaman on wyvern- 505 pts
Shaga's Sword, Kickin Boots, Waaagh! Paint, Lvl 4.

Swap out Kickin boots for the ward save in case you think he's too vounerable. I would just use hm to warmachine hunt and maybe fast cav and skirmishers. Nothing with ranks. Ever. Actually amulet of protectyness wouldn't be too bad either...

sroblin
15-07-2009, 23:39
While you could tool the Savage Orc Shaman to be a combat monster, I think that his frenzy may make him more vulnerable than the extra attacks is worth. For example, your opponent may simply bate your frenzied Shaman on the first turn with one of his units from a cozy 20" away, and your poor shaman will be forced to charge, either forced to fight a tough unit or to be left exposed when that unit flees and all of the nearby enemy guns unleash a fearsome fusillade. He could even lose his chance to do much spellcasting on his 1st turn!

Now the moral of the story probably is to hide him from LoS or in the back of the army during deployment to prevent such an occurence, but certainly by turn 2 he will be involved in some frenzied charge anyway if he wants to have LoS for his spells within effective range. Preferably, you can place him in range of at least 1 suitable melee target by then, but it may still be frustrating to lose the expensive spellcasting abilities so quickly in the game as he goes howling off into combat ontop of a PCP smoking Wyvern.

EDIT: Regarding casting spells in combat, I was under the impression that most spells with Range limit require LOS, which is generally not possible when in melee. That does still leave half of the spells that would still work, though...

decker_cky
16-07-2009, 01:11
EDIT: Regarding casting spells in combat, I was under the impression that most spells with Range limit require LOS, which is generally not possible when in melee. That does still leave half of the spells that would still work, though...

Large targets can still see what they see (they're generally larger than the things they charge.

You'll only be baited turn 1 if you're an idiot.

Now....as for their magic:
Waaagh! has no requirement of distance or LoS.
Nor does Gork's Warpath
Fists of Gork works on any unit within 18".
Bash 'Em ladz works on any unit within 18", but depends on a friendly unit being in combat so isn't too useful turn 1 or 2.
Eadbutt needs LoS and 24" range.
Gaze of mork is a 24" MM so doesn't work in combat.

I really don't think an orc shaman has his casting limited by the frenzy. You want to be in combat to get +2 to cast.