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kaubin
14-07-2009, 21:02
Hello, i'm new to 40k. I've been playing fantasy and enjoying it a whole lot, so much that i'm considering seriously getting into 40k. I'm coming here for suggestions on your part, mostly for army suggestions. I've read part of the rulebook and have a few armies i'd like to try out.

As a WHFB player I play Dark Elves, and definately don't want an army with the same playing style, i'd like to have a different experience. For those who don't know, Elvish armies tend to favour shooting and elite troops.That's why i'm steering clear of the Eldar races, they remind me too much of elvish armies

I also want enjoyable games, and for that is where I really need your help. In Fantasy, some armies, like the Daemons of Chaos are completely overpowering all the other armies and make for boring games that no one enjoys. Gunlines also tend to destroy some fun with a lot of people. I'd be looking for an army that would maximize the fun I would have playing 40k.

On a last note, I don't know why, but I really don't like tanks. I also am not a fan the Space Marines and of the Imperial armies.

I narrowed down which armies interest me to there few:

Necrons - I love the models, they look exactly like the Terminators, and seem like a lot of fun to play. Are they fun to play against though?

Tau - I really like the fact that they have airships that look like flying forts. Very nice looking army. I heard that they were nothing but shooting though, and while I like the models and the fluff, something about the playing style feels annoying for both sides...

Daemons of Chaos - W00t, an army that can double as a second fantasy army. I really like the models and story behind the Daemons, but was turned off by them in Fantasy because so many people complain about them.

Orks - If they are anywhere as quirky and unreliable/surprising as their Fantasy counterpart, then they will be tons of fun for sure. All of the big pieces look pricye though :S

That's it. Also, i'm on a sort of budget, so cost is also an issue in the army. Most people that play around here play minimums of 2000 points, which is quite a bit of money if most of the army is metal and not plastic.

SPYDER68
14-07-2009, 21:07
Necrons have rules issues atm due to 5th edition, nice models thou.

Tau is a gunline army, any close combat and they are dead.

Daemons all must deepstrike, so be sure your ok with that rule.

Orks are fun and have many options.. -- Also Cheap due to buying them in lots from the Assault on Black reach Box. 20 boys for $15 usually

You might also look at tyranids if you dont like Tanks, The big bugs can be rather fun and the models are nice.

Hadafix
14-07-2009, 21:10
Have you looked into Black Templar or Space Wolves? Neither of these are gun line SM or need any tanks to play competitively.

Nids can be great fun if your looking for something totally different.

carltmc
14-07-2009, 21:13
Try Tau. They have a feel like civil war soldiers...lining up and firing, only charging as a last resort. Fun race. DO not pick up a chpter codex besides the generic SM one if you nd up playing SM. They are needlessly complex.

Matt D
14-07-2009, 21:13
i recommend going ork if you are on a budget and get yourself attack on black reach starter set. sell the marines on ebay or for store credit and get more orks. best bang for your buck. chaos is fun to play against i think and requires less models so less money investment (i think). also WH fantasy daemons work great for 40k daemons...
my 2 cents...

only joking...
14-07-2009, 21:14
I would rule out Necrons, for the time being they are not much fun to play with or against. As well as this, the mini's IMO are not particularly good.

Orks are a good laff, can be competitve as well as fluffy with huge modelling and painting options. Tyranids are good if you want something that is completly different to anything in fantasy.

Vedar
14-07-2009, 21:20
40K does not have the power issue fanstasy does. Though it does have some weaker armies that can be hard to get the hang of.

Necrons have took it on the chin hard in 5th ed. They need a new codex really. I always thought they were a little borring and in 5th they lose in (close combat) CC pretty easy (think CR) and get wiped out.

Tau- They lack any CC really and 5th make CC a little more important. My friend just started playing Tau as his first army and he does not expect to win much anytime soon. You can win if you get skilled in playing them. The learning curve is steep.

Daemon- They are pretty fun, no where near as powerful as fanstasy. They are so random and 5+ saves are pretty weak in 40K. Because of all the randomness they can be a bit hard to play. I don't think they are considered overpowered at all in 40K. You can win big or lose big on some deep strike rolls.

Orks - The new codex they are nasty. Super cheap units and some really powerful combos. You can buy them cheap on Ebay with all the Black reach stuff. They have some quicky stuff but they can put up one hell of a fight. They are considered powerful and when you fight them quite often it is an uphill battle as the green tide seems to keep coming.

ZenPaladin
14-07-2009, 21:22
I'd also like to say that in general 40K is more balanced than Fantasy. So you don't have that Goblin's vs Warrior's of Chaos experiance you do in Fantays.

The Tau can be a fun army to play. I play them I suspect that they are a bit irritating to play against though. Getting shot to pieces always sucks.

The Orc can be fun to play and play against. And are thought by many to be one of the strongest races in the game.

The Necron's can be fun to play... but only in friendly games and if you don't mind loosing. They are one of the weakest races in the game right now. I play them as well.

Can't help you to much with the rest though.

The_Outsider
14-07-2009, 21:29
If you are playing on boards with proper terrain (i.e at least 25%)* gunlines make for boring games as they are 99% of the time loltastically bad.

*This is the biggest mistake fantasy players (who move into 40k) usually make - they put down terrain like they would for fantasy and wonder why guard and tau start to blow everything that moves away.

Creeping Dementia
14-07-2009, 21:33
If I were you I'd go for a Green Tide of Orks. They do have one of the stronger armies right now, but aren't nearly as OP as some of the stuff you see in Fantasy. Just stay away from the whole Nob Biker stuff and you'll be playing a pretty balanced list. Everyone loves playing against a horde of orks too (at least I do), it just feels epic. Also as it has been pointed out, you can get large numbers of Boyz for pretty cheap so getting a base of 90-120 orks isn't nearly as expensive as you'd think. Throw in some Lootas, a Boss with some sort of Nobs (maybe in a Battlewagon), and just add a little flavor and you'll have a great list.


As for the others on your list, Necrons really need an update, and Daemons are alright but every game is random due to deep striking. I play Tau and Sisters, and Tau are tough to play with right now. They can still be very competitive, but you won't start doing well untill you get a real good grasp of Tau tactics and unit effectiveness. The only reason I wouldn't recommend them is because too many newer players are giving up on Tau due to them having one of the steepest learning curves out there.

Sorros
14-07-2009, 23:05
Gunlines aren't too difficult depending on what army you're facing, so don't worry about not being fun for you or your opponent with Tau. Orks, you can scrap build a LOT of stuff with, so price isn't too steep. Necron armies are almost all the same, though they are getting a new codex soon. I don't really know much about Daemons.

Although you might not want to roll Eldar b/c of obvious connections with Elves, they aren't entirely shooty...fairly elite, but they have the most playstyles available to them. Low T though, so they aren't the 'best/strongest' elite. Though pricewise, it could be a bit of a problem.

12345_7
15-07-2009, 00:11
Necrons - Look cool and seem to have interesting history. The Necrons are a fairly unique army that you have to be prepared to lose with in this edition (with their codex now). The C'Tan are quite interesting in my opinion. Can get a lot from a battleforce or two.

Tau - Suck in CC, apparently. They seem interesting, yet like everyone else said, difficult to play. Their models look really cool and aren't just one race like all the others, excluding Chaos Daemons and the random mount or beast. Vespid Stingwings and Kroot Mercenaries look cool. I believe that they are average priced, not sure about this.

Chaos Daemons - Have all invulnerable saves and enter via deep strike. They're pretty interesting and the Soul Grinder looks and is awesome. A lot of metal and other expensive units make them very expensive if you chose to play with one god. It's best to start off with more than one god since it might be more price effective, especially for Khorne because of the $30 Bloodcrusher.

Orks - Apparently Orks are fun to play with, and in my opinion, fun to play against. They can be cheap if you get Black reach and sell the marines. They are also very customizable, apparently (pirates and such are possible).

Difficulty of play for a beginner from high to low:
Tau
Daemons
Necrons
Orks

Price for starting player from high to low (Tau placement might be wrong):
Daemons
Tau
Necrons
Orks

I would probably go with Orks if I were you because you can get a lot for a little budget and because they are easy to play, not to mention customizable.

Like everyone else said, there isn't really a lot of spacing between army strengths in 40k. Any army can be good, but it all depends on the tactics and ability of the player to make it good. Some armies, like Orks, can have really simple tactics an still be good.

Have fun choosing!

carltmc
15-07-2009, 00:38
Also, be sure to play low point games first, to get familiar with each unit in your army. If you start too large, you won't remember half of your abilities.

Mink
15-07-2009, 01:36
I don't know what's with the 5th edition switch and how it messed up necrons (i'm pretty new myself) but they are actually really fun. You may get bum rushed and loose an entire squad, but its priceless to see the look on your opponents face when they all get up except maybe one.

Sisters of Battle are a good choice too. A lot of fun. Lots of fire based stuff. Sure, they're part of the Imperium, but they are so much more crazed then their brothers. And their Acts of Faith are way cool.

Sisters are, sadly, all metal right now. You'll be spending 40 for a box of 10 battle sisters.

Necrons, however, are relatively cheap. You get 12 warriors and 3 scarab swarms for 35, compared to a tactical squad of 10 marines for 35.

Creeping Dementia
15-07-2009, 02:01
I don't know what's with the 5th edition switch and how it messed up necrons (i'm pretty new myself) but they are actually really fun. You may get bum rushed and loose an entire squad, but its priceless to see the look on your opponents face when they all get up except maybe one.

Sisters of Battle are a good choice too. A lot of fun. Lots of fire based stuff. Sure, they're part of the Imperium, but they are so much more crazed then their brothers. And their Acts of Faith are way cool.

Sisters are, sadly, all metal right now. You'll be spending 40 for a box of 10 battle sisters.

Necrons, however, are relatively cheap. You get 12 warriors and 3 scarab swarms for 35, compared to a tactical squad of 10 marines for 35.

Agreed on the sisters, but I figure he doesn't want to spend that sort of cash, I'm working on mine right now, had to sell my Nids and spend an extra 300 on top of that just to get to 2000pts (and thats mostly through online discounters).

Mink
15-07-2009, 02:06
Agreed on the sisters, but I figure he doesn't want to spend that sort of cash, I'm working on mine right now, had to sell my Nids and spend an extra 300 on top of that just to get to 2000pts (and thats mostly though online discounters).

wow. thats a lot of money. nice to see people are dedicated to sisters. Wish i had 2000 pts of sisters...

Come to think of it, not all SoB's units are metal. Their vehicles are plastic, yes?

Creeping Dementia
15-07-2009, 02:08
The Immolator is (which you need to buy to get the decoative stuff for their rhinos), but the Exorcists are part metal, part plastic.

Serebrate
15-07-2009, 02:09
Chaos Space Marines.

Chaos is the only true answer.

kaubin
15-07-2009, 03:54
I'm not a fan of the Sister of battle models. I thought the concept was really cool, but I just don't like the look of the army. I hadn't considered Tyranids, I think I was scared when I saw that a lot of their models were running for 40$ a piece. Are they really as expensive as they seem?

It's too bad the Necrons are having such a hard time, they look like a nice army.

Thankyou for all your suggestions. I found a lot of cheap Orks stuff on ebay from the starter kit. I also saw an HQ with a gun that shot out snotlings :D I'm still not sure which army I want.

I'm happy to hear gun lines arent as hated in 40k as in Fantasy, but i'm starting to think I shouldn't start with a Tau army. I think i'll try and go to my local store on 40k veterans nights and see what armies are being played, and then choose Tyranids or Orks.

big squig
15-07-2009, 04:00
You sound like you don't want tanks, so that throws tau out immediatly. Static tau armies are awful, you need tanks.

Necrons are really out of date and are prolly the worst army in the game right now next to daemon hunters.

Orks are a good bet. They have great tanks, but you can play just fine without them. he green tide is an entire foot-slogging ork army and it's damn scary. Also, thanks to the starter box, you can get everything you need for a green tide super cheap. Lots of people sell the orks out of their box and just keep the marines and about 3 boxes worth is a whole army!

I'd also suggest tyranids. Like necrons, they badly need a new book, but tey don't use tanks.

big squig
15-07-2009, 04:09
*This is the biggest mistake fantasy players (who move into 40k) usually make - they put down terrain like they would for fantasy and wonder why guard and tau start to blow everything that moves away.
I'd just like to quote this for you new guy because it's super important.

BE SURE TO PLAY WITH 25% TERRAIN, MINIMUM.

Seriously, fill one table quarter with terrain completely just to get an idea of the minimum amount of terrain you should be using. Use all sorts of terrain...area terrain, small terrain, big LOS blocking terrain.

You want the board to have fire lanes. You want to block LOS near the middle of the board. You want no area greater than 12"x12" empty. YOu want the most useful terrain outside deployment zone, make people work for them! :evilgrin:

And most of all, you want to play missions. 40K is not a game where you can set up two armies on a flat board and calculate casualties at the end to determine winner like fantasy. More ofter than not you have to make best use of the terrain to get an advantage and the winner is often decided by who controls certain points on the board and nothing else.

Lord-Gen Bale Chambers
15-07-2009, 04:56
I'll go over the armies you suggested along with something to keep in mind.

Two thirds of the battles are objective based. With all of the objectives in 5th edition, mobility and strong troop choices are huge. It is true that the proper application of enough force will win any game, but this can alienate your regular opponents. Finding a balance between the two with your army is something you have to find on your own.
edit: I am talking about tabling your opponent to win a game. One sided battles aren't fun for your opponents.

Tau: In my opinion, mech Tau play much better then the gunline Tau even though it took a hit in 5th edition. No matter how you play Tau, you will want a few tanks (hammerheads and devilfish). Not sure if they are excluded because you called them airships*. Even if you wanted to go infantry heavy, their codex has alot of variety in units that will keep you from getting bored.

Your basic troops are fire warriors and kroot.

Pros: Fire Warriors have the longest range and highest strength of any standard issue rifle in 40k. They have a moderate armor save (4+). Can be mounted in a Devilfish for mobility.
Kroot have a decent gun and are pretty good in close combat against non-T4 power-armoured units. I think they can also infiltrate into woods which is nice. They are cheap and can also be taken in large units, which when sat on an objective in cover can be hard to remove by shooting.

Cons: Both are toughness 3. Kroot have no armour. Fire Warriors fold in close combat like a wet-paper bag. Kroot have a low leadership.

Mobility: Mech lists are highly mobile. They have some units that can deepstrike (Crisis Suits, gun drones) and a few that can infiltrate or scout (pathfinders, kroot, stealth suits).


*Skimmers are the correct term in 40k for vehicles that hover.


Necrons: Well rounded and tough troops. As mentioned, they aren't very good in close combat, but that is a trade off for being so tough and having a standard issue weapon that can damage any vehicle or creature. Depending on how you build the list, it could be boring to play and play against. The codex doesn't have alot of different units in it, but this fact is only increasd because like every codex, a few of their units aren't very (cost) effective.

Basic Troop: Necron Warrior
Pro: Tough with a strong weapon. High leadership.
Con: Low initiative which really hurts them in close combat. Phase-out if too many are killed.

Mobility: Necron mobility can surprise people who have never played against them. If the right units are taken, they can be very mobile. Necron Lords with an upgrade can teleport around the battlefield with a unit and Monoliths can deep strike with Necron Warriors coming out of it. Their Destroyer and scarab swarms count as jetbikes and can turbo boost.


Orks: Cheapest army out there along with Vanilla Marines due to Blackreach. Their codex also has alot of flavor and variety in it. Plus, due to the cheap cost and effectiveness of a mob of boyz, you can spend some points on fun units without it hampering the effectiveness of your army too much.

Basic Troop: Mob of Ork Boyz

Pro: Cheap, tough and strong in close combat. You can take alot of them in a mob and their sheer number of attacks can put a hurting on almost any unit. Fearless in high numbers.

Con: Almost non-existent armour. Against a strong shooting opponent, a mob in the open for a turn can take a brutal beating (good thing there are usually more then 1 mob). Leadership can be an issue if a mob dwindles below 10 in number. Their accuracy shooting is pretty bad, but this can be countered by having alot of orks shooting.

Mobility: With bikers, truks, stormboyz, battle wagons and deff coptas, Orks have plenty of fast units to select. A strong list will have a few of these to support the mobs of boyz.

SilverDrake
15-07-2009, 06:51
Necrons - I love the models, they look exactly like the Terminators, and seem like a lot of fun to play. Are they fun to play against though?

Short? No, Allthough i don't lose to them i find them more than boring in fact i find them annoying to play against them, so i personally tend to whipe them out as fast as i can, usually in the 3rd or 4th round, but (big one here) I think rthey will get a lot more interesting with their new codex sometime next Year



Tau - I really like the fact that they have airships that look like flying forts. Very nice looking army. I heard that they were nothing but shooting though, and while I like the models and the fluff, something about the playing style feels annoying for both sides...

Tau need their tanks and they got gunlines, any Close Combat is deadly to them, allthough they stand their Gnu against Necrons, IA and Gretchins ^^.

Seriously i play them myself, and they can be quite fun, but if you got a opponent who can't deal with them they can be quite annoying.
I also wouldn't suggest them to a Noob ;)



Daemons of Chaos - W00t, an army that can double as a second fantasy army. I really like the models and story behind the Daemons, but was turned off by them in Fantasy because so many people complain about them.

In 40k they are not much of an oponent... I personally like them and they can be fun to play and play against, but if you want a serious army hands off.



Orks - If they are anywhere as quirky and unreliable/surprising as their Fantasy counterpart, then they will be tons of fun for sure. All of the big pieces look pricye though :S

Orks are quite Expensive, because you need much, equally if you are playing mecha, tanks or Foot. The Pricy part could on the other hand be emerged by buying some Black Reach Boxes.



That's it. Also, i'm on a sort of budget, so cost is also an issue in the army. Most people that play around here play minimums of 2000 points, which is quite a bit of money if most of the army is metal and not plastic.

Not so true, if you are playing an elite army a metal army can be alot cheaper than an Plastic army.

classic is Daemon hunters:

1 Grand master
5 termis
2x 10 Grey Knights
2x 5 Grey Knights
2x Land raiders or 1 x land Raider and 2x Cybots.

With a little conversion you could build a lot of this one with Black reach boxes, or if ordering from the right onlinestore, you could do this for around 250 $

I personally would recommend you either Orks with heavy use of Black Reach (also sell the space Marines and everything else you won't need via ebay, should leave you at a no cost level for the Orks).
Tau would be a choice too, but not that easy and they tend to be loved or hated.

Or: either an Tyranid elite Army or an DH Hunter Army.

regards SilverDrake

kaubin
16-07-2009, 00:08
Thanks a lot for all of the awesome support. I checked out the Orks book today and fell in love with some of the stuff I saw, especially the idea of squig bombs and looted weapons/vehicles. Tomorrow i'll probably try and take a look at the Tyranid Codex just to be sure i'm 100% happy with my choice, and go ahead and start collecting.

I'm just wondering if you couldn't give me examples of what 2000 points of Orks or Tyranids might look like, and what I should invest in. For Orks I figured I could used at least between 60 and 100 Boyz as troops, some 2 or 3 HQ (war boss and weirdboy), and then a mix of nob bikers, tankbustas, deffkoptas and killa kans, but i'm not sure about the quantities, or what I should go for at first. I was thinking of getting the Black Reach box, finding someone who would trade the Marines for Orks, and maybe tack on a Batallion, followed up with HQ and slowly collecting the other stuff.

For Tyranid...well I haven't seen the book yet, but i'd be interested to see how big of an army that would make :D

xerxeshavelock
16-07-2009, 00:20
Thanks a lot for all of the awesome support. I checked out the Orks book today and fell in love with some of the stuff I saw, especially the idea of squig bombs and looted weapons/vehicles. Tomorrow i'll probably try and take a look at the Tyranid Codex just to be sure i'm 100% happy with my choice, and go ahead and start collecting.

I'm just wondering if you couldn't give me examples of what 2000 points of Orks or Tyranids might look like, and what I should invest in. For Orks I figured I could used at least between 60 and 100 Boyz as troops, some 2 or 3 HQ (war boss and weirdboy), and then a mix of nob bikers, tankbustas, deffkoptas and killa kans, but i'm not sure about the quantities, or what I should go for at first. I was thinking of getting the Black Reach box, finding someone who would trade the Marines for Orks, and maybe tack on a Batallion, followed up with HQ and slowly collecting the other stuff.

For Tyranid...well I haven't seen the book yet, but i'd be interested to see how big of an army that would make :D

If you're a slow painter I'd go with the Nids over Orks. Both can field loads of figs, but the Orks will prob take longer to paint (at least they do me) due to all the wonderful detail etc. The Nids are more suited to the batch approach, with most figs having maybe 3 textures on them. As to rules, the Orks prob have a slight advantage, but you can bet the Nids are going to have some slurpy goodness when they get redone, and meanwhile they're perfectly serviceable.

carltmc
16-07-2009, 01:44
Thanks a lot for all of the awesome support. I checked out the Orks book today and fell in love with some of the stuff I saw, especially the idea of squig bombs and looted weapons/vehicles. Tomorrow i'll probably try and take a look at the Tyranid Codex just to be sure i'm 100% happy with my choice, and go ahead and start collecting.

I'm just wondering if you couldn't give me examples of what 2000 points of Orks or Tyranids might look like, and what I should invest in. For Orks I figured I could used at least between 60 and 100 Boyz as troops, some 2 or 3 HQ (war boss and weirdboy), and then a mix of nob bikers, tankbustas, deffkoptas and killa kans, but i'm not sure about the quantities, or what I should go for at first. I was thinking of getting the Black Reach box, finding someone who would trade the Marines for Orks, and maybe tack on a Batallion, followed up with HQ and slowly collecting the other stuff.

For Tyranid...well I haven't seen the book yet, but i'd be interested to see how big of an army that would make :D


Examples you say? Tally ho then!

EDIT: Woops, forgot to remove point costs lol.

Orks 1000 pts



HQ

Warboss
W/ Power Klaw
W/ Twin Linked Shoota
W/ ‘Eavy Armour



Troops

Ork Boyz (10)
W/ Shootas
W/Ard Boyz
W/ Nob
W/ Boss pole
W/ Power Klaw
W/Stikkbombs
Ork Boyz (21) W/ Sluggas & Choppas
W/ Stikkbombs
Gretchin (10)
W/ Runtherd
W/Grot-Prod

Elites

Ork Nobz (5)
W/Big Choppas
W/ ‘Eavy Armour

Fast Attack

Deffkoptas (3)
W/Twin-Linked Rokkit Launchas (3)
W/Biggbomms (3)

Warbuggies (1)
W/Wartrakk

Heavy Support

Big Gunz (1)
W/ Zzap Gun





TOTAL: 990

jsullivanlaw
16-07-2009, 17:03
Hello, i'm new to 40k. I've been playing fantasy and enjoying it a whole lot, so much that i'm considering seriously getting into 40k. I'm coming here for suggestions on your part, mostly for army suggestions. I've read part of the rulebook and have a few armies i'd like to try out.

As a WHFB player I play Dark Elves, and definately don't want an army with the same playing style, i'd like to have a different experience. For those who don't know, Elvish armies tend to favour shooting and elite troops.That's why i'm steering clear of the Eldar races, they remind me too much of elvish armies

I also want enjoyable games, and for that is where I really need your help. In Fantasy, some armies, like the Daemons of Chaos are completely overpowering all the other armies and make for boring games that no one enjoys. Gunlines also tend to destroy some fun with a lot of people. I'd be looking for an army that would maximize the fun I would have playing 40k.

On a last note, I don't know why, but I really don't like tanks. I also am not a fan the Space Marines and of the Imperial armies.

I narrowed down which armies interest me to there few:

Necrons - I love the models, they look exactly like the Terminators, and seem like a lot of fun to play. Are they fun to play against though?

Tau - I really like the fact that they have airships that look like flying forts. Very nice looking army. I heard that they were nothing but shooting though, and while I like the models and the fluff, something about the playing style feels annoying for both sides...

Daemons of Chaos - W00t, an army that can double as a second fantasy army. I really like the models and story behind the Daemons, but was turned off by them in Fantasy because so many people complain about them.

Orks - If they are anywhere as quirky and unreliable/surprising as their Fantasy counterpart, then they will be tons of fun for sure. All of the big pieces look pricye though :S

That's it. Also, i'm on a sort of budget, so cost is also an issue in the army. Most people that play around here play minimums of 2000 points, which is quite a bit of money if most of the army is metal and not plastic.

Necrons: They are not fun to play against. Due to the phase out rule, every game against them just becomes annihilate and you don't have to go after the objectives. Necrons are the absolute worst army in 40k right now so you would lose a lot which gets frustrating.

Tau: Tau are shooty and will get slaughtered in hand to hand. They don't necessarily need to be gunline style though since they can play a more mobile style.

Chaos Daemons: My main army now, these guys aren't overpowered like in fantasy and are more of a fun army. When things go right you can slaughter an opponent but things can go wrong as well which leaves you getting a slaughtered. It all comes down to random chance. You deploy anywhere on the table with deep strike for everything but don't necessarily know what is going to come in. Their individual units themselves though are pretty damn awesome for the point cost. Very good in hand to hand, less so with shooting.

Orks: They aren't as random as they were in 2nd edition but are actually a pretty hard army to beat. Possibly the toughest army in 40k though arguments can be made for imperial guard and chaos marines. I personally think guard is the toughest opponent with their new codex. Orks can field a huge horde of nasty hand to hand guys and their are some shooting builds that can be effective.

wheetburn
16-07-2009, 19:00
i would try tau, the models look good aswell as fun to play with.

Wut?
16-07-2009, 20:11
a week or two ago, i purchased the Black Reach box with a friend, and played the space marines.

i haven't won a game yet :cries: