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Awilla the Hun
17-07-2009, 20:16
(I know that I said I would only do battle reports. Well, I mostly am. But this just occurred to me after reading about Adam Troke's cheating. I'm not raising my post count by too much.)

How good are the GW people at actually using their own products? Phil Kelly seems pretty good, but apart from that?

theHandofGork
17-07-2009, 20:33
I believe Alessio won a lot of the Italian GT's before he was hired.

Lord Dan
17-07-2009, 21:03
It also depends on your definition of "good". If someone won a GT with a broken Daemon army would you be impressed by their skills?

...now that guy who won with the Goblin cavalry army...brilliant.

Nuada
17-07-2009, 21:13
I don't think they're that amazing at the game. There's a few in the studio that are very good. From my experience they actually aren't too bothered, it isn't the end of the world to them. :) Shop staff are usually good, they know the books inside out.(well 2 of my friends who are shop staff are good anyway)

They sometimes do a GW staff v's a gaming club or bunch of gamers. It's usually the gaming club that wins.

Bingo the Fun Monkey
17-07-2009, 21:23
I could kick all their asses in Warmahordes.

Condottiere
17-07-2009, 21:54
That might be an explanatuion why Army Book theory did not translate well into tabletop practice.

Harwammer
18-07-2009, 12:46
Tell me more about Troke's cehating, I want to know more!

Where did you read about it?

Regarding the staffs competancy... Different members of the staff have different skills and abilities. Some are 'pwnage' at the game, some are better writers, some have more interesting ideas, etc. Likewise different staff members have different weaknesses.

Tokamak
18-07-2009, 12:51
My store owner completely obliterates anyone with his Kislev force.

BigbyWolf
18-07-2009, 13:17
...now that guy who won with the Goblin cavalry army...brilliant.

Would love to hear more about this if you have any details?

FLUEVOG
18-07-2009, 13:31
Adam Troke brought an unreleased copy of the Empire Army Book to a game and pointed out that, indeed, his Steam Tank could form Voltron and that Halberdiers could unleash a Care Bear Stare.

Condottiere
18-07-2009, 15:20
Poor Adam, he's turning into the butt of the jokes here. Maybe's he's improved his command skills in the meantime.

Legionary
18-07-2009, 15:46
I don't know whether competent is the right word. A lot of them don't go into games with a WAAC mindset, and instead pick fun and characterful armies. Those sorts of players would be obliterated by many, but it doesn't mean that they're incompetent - they just play a different metagame to you.

Urgat
18-07-2009, 15:55
I believe Alessio won a lot of the Italian GT's before he was hired.

Yes, he did. He's an impressive WAAC case, though, imho.

ICLRK625
18-07-2009, 16:03
I don't know whether competent is the right word. A lot of them don't go into games with a WAAC mindset, and instead pick fun and characterful armies. Those sorts of players would be obliterated by many, but it doesn't mean that they're incompetent - they just play a different metagame to you.

Those aren't the makings of an "incompetent" player though. I go into games with that mindset as well, but am capable of being competitive against all but the beardiest of lists.

It's when players make these (or even attempts at WAAC lists) lists that are riddled with illegal units/combinations, and then play them like absolute fools (My War Hounds are charging your Hydra!) that they would be considered incompetent. Even if I get decimated, there are games where I know I made the best (or at least a very good) move in every situation, and that's when I'm happiest, win or lose.

starlight
18-07-2009, 16:20
The average GW staffer is...well...average. :) I've played against many and their gaming skills have been all over the place. I've found them to be a cross section of the gaming public. Some are gits who will do whatever it takes to win (including cheating, yes it happened to me), others are pillars of gentlemanly conduct and I looked forward to every game with them. :) Most are in the middle...just like with the general population.

Although I do find that the theme/narrative gamers are much more fun to game with. :)

Where they tend to excel is at the painting/converting, mostly because they have the time at work to do so. :)

craskie666
18-07-2009, 17:37
@starlight : i played WoC vs Vampires and it was only a draw and not a win infront of three people watching because he thought his monsters could charge 360 degrees

phoenixlaw
19-07-2009, 07:10
Those aren't the makings of an "incompetent" player though. I go into games with that mindset as well, but am capable of being competitive against all but the beardiest of lists.

It's when players make these (or even attempts at WAAC lists) lists that are riddled with illegal units/combinations, and then play them like absolute fools (My War Hounds are charging your Hydra!) that they would be considered incompetent. Even if I get decimated, there are games where I know I made the best (or at least a very good) move in every situation, and that's when I'm happiest, win or lose.

I think every time I've played against Dark Elves I've charged my opponents Hydra with Warhounds. Seems like a good move usually :)

TheBloodyFistOfKhaine
19-07-2009, 12:44
I went to a gamesworkshop the other day and wanted a beastman army book, the guy dint know what I was talking about.
Hed never heard of them.
Then they looked on the computer and tried to convince me I wanted warriors of chaos or daemons of chaos.
It was hilarious but frustrating.:D

Alathir
19-07-2009, 16:41
Does it really matter? For me, someone is only as good as the amount of 'love' that is put into their army, whether that be with modelling, background, painting. Actually winning at warhammer etc. has always been a secondary concern really.

Someone could be the best player in the whole world but if they play with a shoddy, unassembled, unpainted force with no plans to paint it, no concept behind the force then it doesn't impress me in the slightest.

sigur
19-07-2009, 16:48
Indeed, "game competence" doesn't necessarily have anything to do with "number of wins". It's how much one can make of the social situation.

TeddyC
19-07-2009, 17:04
most of the old Derby staff were very good gamers at WHFB.

Its not all about winning though. I remember the roman legion TK army. all fully converted but not that competitive.

ICLRK625
19-07-2009, 17:11
I think every time I've played against Dark Elves I've charged my opponents Hydra with Warhounds. Seems like a good move usually :)

It was a bad example, you're right. You probably try to hold it up, I guess you have to think of it with the mentality of the average 11 year old "My Warhounds are going to charge and kill your Hydra!"

Archaon
19-07-2009, 17:28
I remember a very old battle report (Stillman vs. Priestley or some other old git) where the head developer of Warhammer Fantasy placed a Dark Elf RBT behind a hill and spent the next 2 turns or so moving it into a shooting position.

I was a teenager back then (early 90s) and not that experienced but even i recognized a boneheaded maneuver and it made me sad realizing that the guys who actually develop the stuff suck at using their own product :(

However those guys writing the battlereports have major obstacles.. they have to present the entire army as a whole and can't tailor the list much against the specific opponent.

We all know that some units are next to useless against certain armies and so we don't field them (different for tournament where you don't know which army you'll be facing) so i tend to give them some rope but still..

starlight
19-07-2009, 17:34
...additionally they don't actually *care* about that pesky *winning/losing* thing that gets some gamers so wrapped up... :p


Many gamers would be surprised at how little gaming GW Staff actually get. They work with the stuff all day, but get very little gaming in, then they want to get home to their families just like the rest of us...

bob_the_small
19-07-2009, 18:38
The staff at Brent Cross get lots of games in with each other and the customers, and they are very good, (except for the manager, who rules lawyers' every game he watches and plays, and makes life hell for us, luckily he is on holiday now!) I think 1 of them has had 6-7 games in the last week....

Condottiere
19-07-2009, 18:44
I don't think anyone objects to having to deploy from a prepared list, in order to display the range of units, in a demonstration match.

PeG
19-07-2009, 20:04
the competence of store staff is very different between individuals. Some are very good while others I have met have made rulings that are directly in violation of basic rules. There is often a correlation with if they are personally interested in fantasy or if they are mainly interested in 40k.

Jind_Singh
20-07-2009, 03:19
damn straight! When I was a red shirt any 'challenge the staff' on WFB were excellent. If it was a noob I'd make them play for an exciting draw - or let them clinch it, as I'd be teaching them the finer points about gaming (ie let them make a rash move, watch it fall apart, and then reset the situation and try it a better way).
Against the hardcore I'd try my best to bring on the can of whoop ass, and for the most part it was a big can (apart from 1 guy & his dwarf horde - YUK!).
but for 40k i could ramble on all day about the fluff, but sucked eggs on list building & rules!
I'm not the best out there but I'm not bad either when it comes to WFB - but thats more down to the way I build and play an army - I like the themed army over the powerplay army anyday!

NakedBarbarian
20-07-2009, 07:18
In general i've found GW staff to be much more competent in the Hobbie in general, as opposed to some people obsessed with winning games and keeping count of their victories.

Kal Taron
20-07-2009, 13:49
There is an old batrep in WD (german 36 IIRC) where they pit two WAAC armies against each other. WE vs. Lizzies in 5th edition. That was a really interesting battle. Most over batreps are nice stories but not much else.

Ixquic
20-07-2009, 15:12
The battle reports are always fun. For the Vampire Counts 7th edition debut the guy used a combination of ghoulkin and Vans Dance to get his own unit with Vampire in it tarpitted in Flagellants first turn. he also didn't cast Invocation once during the entire game...

Then in another one they were honestly surprised when a) Konrad charged out of his own unit (he's frenzied and movement 6 and infantry in VC is all movement 4) into a unit of Phoenix Guard and b) that a 2 wound T4 model with a 5+ save got creamed by a unit with a 4+ ward save and ASF.

Really I have no respect for the ability of GW employees to play their own games. They may be great at other aspects of the hobby but really they are horrible at playing them. Like a stopped clock sometimes they do a good job but mostly they are there to sell pretty models not display gaming acumen.

Wolf 11x
20-07-2009, 15:41
I'd assume that GW staff vary in skill about as much as the rest of us.

As for the battle reports, they're atrocious. When I first got into the hobby, I realized how dumb their lists were.

Grimthug
20-07-2009, 15:54
My store owner completely obliterates anyone with his Kislev force.

Since I'm building a Kislev force I must ask what is is usual force compisition?

Is it the army or the general?

Grimthug

wingedserpant
20-07-2009, 19:50
I think every time I've played against Dark Elves I've charged my opponents Hydra with Warhounds. Seems like a good move usually :)

Well it pins it in place for yourtcombat phase. =)

That said Warhounds are not too shabby at killing the handlers.