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View Full Version : A long lull in WHFB



IsawaShori
19-07-2009, 16:08
Is it just me, or has there been a long lull in fantasy? I know some new Empire stuff came out fairly recently, but that has been really under advertised.

How come?

gorenut
19-07-2009, 16:21
It definitely does feel that way. Maybe also because we're expecting so many things on the horizon. I think GW's doing a better job at clamping down on leaking rumors might actually be hurting them. They need to learn to do a better job at constantly allowing random pictures and tidbits out to keep their customers interested.

antin3
19-07-2009, 16:40
It doesn't just feel like it, it's a fact. I feel this way and I play 40k and only the occasional game of fantasy. I would probably be much more interested if some new army info or support was more forthcoming. Around my area that is the general consensus, by the looks of it I am not the only one to feel this way.

Condottiere
19-07-2009, 18:47
It's been blamed on the current emphasis on 40K; supposedly, 2010 will be Fantasy's year, with a new Edition. TBH, I doubt there will be a new edition next year.

Duke Georgal
19-07-2009, 19:25
Not only has there not been much new stuff, or anything exciting, but what has come out is horribly overpriced.

I'm not excited about fantasy at the moment.

The Custodian
19-07-2009, 20:03
I think its because of the economy... GW's putting emphasis on the system that makes them the most money (and unfortunatly army also, dam SM's) to try and make profits in a time when people are not inclined to be buying... 40k is thier big seller and until this ********* dies down we probably wont be seeing much action occuring in the fantasy line...

szlachcic
19-07-2009, 21:23
I think its because of the economy... GW's putting emphasis on the system that makes them the most money (and unfortunatly army also, dam SM's) to try and make profits in a time when people are not inclined to be buying... 40k is thier big seller and until this ********* dies down we probably wont be seeing much action occuring in the fantasy line...

Except that it has been stated that next year is supposed to have a large line up of WHFB as has been already stated. There are supposedly 3 army releases as well as a number of "waves" of other miniatures.

Condottiere
19-07-2009, 21:28
Rats are supposed to become twitchy this year, November being indicated.

craskie666
19-07-2009, 23:53
next is going to be a massive year for fanatasy with hopefully (wishlist here) Woc daemons and DE relases plus BoC and TK being redone

Grimstonefire
20-07-2009, 00:45
The lull we've seen atm I think reflects the fact that the things they're doing for WHFB do not relate to any current books.

artyboy
20-07-2009, 03:19
40k is much more balanced. If they ever manage to balance fantasy then people might start buying it again.

Staurikosaurus
20-07-2009, 03:49
40k is much more balanced. If they ever manage to balance fantasy then people might start buying it again.

rolfmao :wtf:

NakedBarbarian
20-07-2009, 03:53
it feels way to early for a new edition i think the rules are fine as they are the only thing i would change is a redo of the Orc and Goblins book

DarkTerror
20-07-2009, 04:08
Unfortunately, there's not much to be excited about in Warhammer right now.

Because there aren't any rumors coming out, it feels like the game is stagnant/dead. Not a good thing.

NakedBarbarian
20-07-2009, 07:14
40k is much more balanced.

In much the same way Tic Tac To is more balanced than Chess

Condottiere
20-07-2009, 09:21
Balance means different things to different players.

Anyway, an advanced rules section would be nice.

kyussinchains
20-07-2009, 09:46
I'm patiently waiting till July 25th..... apparently at games day US they're going to reveal the truth about this rumoured 'new race/army'

or maybe they won't and it will just be an elaborate hoax.....

Nicha11
20-07-2009, 09:59
I'm patiently waiting till July 25th..... apparently at games day US they're going to reveal the truth about this rumoured 'new race/army'

or maybe they won't and it will just be an elaborate hoax.....

GW: We were just jerking you guys.

Public::confused::wtf::mad:

ICEMANQ
20-07-2009, 11:54
I want more concrete rumours of a future edition!

I'm tempted to buy the BfSP box for the mini rulebook, but i'll get annoyed if I hear there's a new edition coming in a year;)

Tokamak
20-07-2009, 11:55
Well it's not as if we NEED new stuff in order to enjoy Warhamer, even if GW anounced to quite all the support for the game I would keep on playing.

Kerill
20-07-2009, 12:28
Complete lack updates for warhammer lately, sad but that's the way it is. Must be less armybooks released this year than for quite a few years- or so it seems anyway.

Brimstone
20-07-2009, 12:35
I want more concrete rumours of a future edition!

I'm tempted to buy the BfSP box for the mini rulebook, but i'll get annoyed if I hear there's a new edition coming in a year;)


I'd buy the box, the rulebook is the only thing that should be invalidated as the new starter box should contain different armies to the ones currently in there.

Condottiere
20-07-2009, 12:38
That's assuming you want Dwarves and/or Goblins.

willowdark
20-07-2009, 13:20
A new edition of rules would really have to win me over. As it stands I really like 7th ed, and a new edition is the last thing I'd want to see.

But if Skaven, Beasts and TK, and/or another army or new race, are all released between now and 2011, I'm sure you'll see a new surge of enthusiasm. For all the anxiety over VC and Daemons, I'd say the other 7th ed books have been big hits. At least in my area; DE, WoC, HE and Lizards have all been big hits and I know there are quite a few Beastmen players just itchin for that new book.

loveless
20-07-2009, 13:36
Well, Warhammer Fantasy is not exactly the best-selling miniature game out there to begin with.

40K, on the other hand, is pretty bloody close to the best-selling miniature game out there (I'm loathe to say "best" as I'll be proven wrong the second I do :p ). GW's focusing on what sells in terms of releases - though I get the feeling that the development team has been prepping Fantasy for a boost come 2010.

Fantasy needs something of a kick in the teeth to get going again. 8th Edition will probably help, but it'd be nice if they could update all of the Army Books before they update the BRB. They didn't with 40K, however, so I'm not about to hold my breath.

IsawaShori
20-07-2009, 14:56
I so very seriously doubt a new edition, which makes absolutely no sense at all. I am curious to where that particular rumor started, and why is it gaining momentum.

Grimstonefire
20-07-2009, 15:17
It was 6 years between 6th and 7th, so 4 years would seem a little soon.

It took 5 years to release all armies in 6th, and I wouldn't be surprised at all if it took the same in 7th. So if they were to wait until all armies were done we'd probably see 8th in Summer/ autumn 2011.

The thing that will be particularly interesting for 8th rulebook will be where the section on Chaos Dwarfs is... If the rule book is due next summer I think Chaos Dwarfs will follow soon after (within 6 months). It makes sense to include a substantial section with pictures if the next time you'd be able to update it is 4+ years later. So in my mind rumours on 8th are directly related to the release of chaos dwarfs.

Not sure where I read it, may have been on here, but I seem to recall people saying that the releases of rulebooks are not going to be linked to army releases. They will be done to renew interest generally in the whole system, so between 4 and 5 years per edition sounds about right to me.

Edit:

It's in here, down a bit:
http://www.warseer.com/rumours/warhammer_fantasy_rumours

Warhammer Madman
20-07-2009, 15:20
I think a new eddition now would make perfect business sence they could
a, make the late 6th ed armies more viable
b, wipe the slate clean and attract more customers...

The amount of times a young person walks through the door of my local GW and the staff says "what do you want to start collecting. Warhammer the game with wizzards and dragons. Or 40k the game where there are aliens monsters and tanks!" no wonder 40k is more popular how many 11 year olds understand game mechanics!

From a gamers point of view 8th ed now would be a travesty. They need to smarten up the 6th ed books first but GW wont think like that especialy since the late 6th ed books were supposidly designed for 7th (ahem... vampres and demons put pay to that).


So basicly I can see the logic behind them doing 8th next year but I wouldnt be happy. And of corse they are focusing on 40k its what 8 year olds want!

Ixquic
20-07-2009, 15:34
It wouldn't be so annoying if it wasn't for GW's new super silence on everything policy. It's hard to wait for stuff when you have no idea what you are waiting for and when it's even coming out. A lot of Fantasy players I know have no confidence that Skaven is being released anytime soon and the overall scene is dead except for like 3 people at the local store. Also it's impossible to be excited about new plastic models that come or for exactly the same price as they were before.

Anyone who believes that there will ever be a "year of "fantasy" is living in a fool's paradise.

gorenut
20-07-2009, 16:16
Maybe the problem is how GW releases everything in 1 large wave at a time based on their army book releases. It makes things feel like there are huge gaps between releases. I would like to seem them going back to just releasing models as they see fit.. small, consistent releases to keep things fresh and people interested. Its not like most people can afford to purchase all the new models at once when they're all released anyways.

Maybe this is steering off too far.. but I would even like to see them go back to releasing new models/units even after the release of army books. Forcing everything to be stuck in army books make things feel stagnant and a lot of people feel shafted if their armybooks aren't "up to par". The stats of these new units can be put in both WD and perhaps printed on the box or perhaps via insert with the set. Sure, it'd require people to bring the stat sheets instead of just the army book.. but I think it'd atleast make this game feel more like a hobby again. I'd actually look forward to WDs again.. with the possibility of each month having potential for new units. I know some my argue there might be balance issues due to potential lack of testing time.. but its not like things are so balanced now. Plus it seems like 1 unit would be easier to test than an entire army book at a time.

Obviously all just my opinion.

Voss
20-07-2009, 19:10
The funny thing is, that '1 big wave' thing is actually going away. They've been doing multiple smaller waves for the past several years.

@Ixquic- if you don't know whats coming... how can you possibly be waiting for it at all? Whats the point of waiting for things you don't know about? Its like waiting for the first jetcar.

@Nicha11- it isn't as if GW has pushed the 'awesome new thing.' Thats been the product of a couple guys on the internet, and rumour recursion.

DarkTerror
20-07-2009, 19:20
@Ixquic- if you don't know whats coming... how can you possibly be waiting for it at all? Whats the point of waiting for things you don't know about? Its like waiting for the first jetcar.


Wow! New Rumor! It must be a top secret slip-up from the government.

I don't know about you, but I'm not buying a new car until the jetcar comes out!

Ixquic
20-07-2009, 19:20
That's the point. If we knew Skaven or Tomb Kings were coming out in August, September or whatever (even the direction the army was going to be taking) or there is such and such cool model coming out soon there would be something to look forward to and be interested in the future of the game. Due to the super secrecy that's become policy as of late who know what's happening and when so it's not worth the energy to think about upcoming Fantasy stuff.

wingedserpant
20-07-2009, 19:28
Why do we need new releases to enjoy the game. If you want something new then start a new army.

And Skaven is coming out by the end of this year.

Plus we did get WoC and lizzies right after each other. 40K therefore got guard and planetstrike.

willowdark
20-07-2009, 19:38
Leaking rumors will just a likely create anger for the new product which could just as easily hurt sails as it might help.

High Elf ASF anyone?

N810
20-07-2009, 19:39
Originally Posted by artyboy
40k is much more balanced.

Lol only becuse all armies are Space Marines.



Seriously the next big thing better not be the WHFB card game.

Crazy Harborc
21-07-2009, 01:05
Well....considering the the new improved price of the 7th Edition starter box the current selection of troops in the box should not be limited to just the Goblins and Dwarves.

A grandson was interested.....until he did the math. He picked two PC games for the same total price over the starter box. Way to go GW!;)

Condottiere
21-07-2009, 06:03
I think the idea of the starter box should be discarded, a comprehensive range of battalion boxes for basic armies would be better, and a rules booklet for ten bucks (not that I think the current one is worth that much).

Staurikosaurus
21-07-2009, 06:35
Well....considering the the new improved price of the 7th Edition starter box the current selection of troops in the box should not be limited to just the Goblins and Dwarves.

A grandson was interested.....until he did the math. He picked two PC games for the same total price over the starter box. Way to go GW!;)

Umm, what's your grandson going to do in a month when he's beat both of those games? He can return them and perhaps get a budget title but again, after another 2 weeks what is he going to do?

IMO the GW hobby has a lot more longevity to it and teaches (some) social and other skills. Additionally it'll actually get him out of the house.

NakedBarbarian
21-07-2009, 07:23
QFT
Buy a PC game, play it once, mayb twice if its good, and the kid gets nagged to go outside and play
Buy a small starter kit, the kid can play over and over again, the experience different everytime, and he can meet lots of different people.

IMO there has to be something said about when you were just a kid, saving for ages to buy one unit, the excitement of assembling and painting, playing with your friends and showing off your latest toys, and after a couple of years of dedication collecting the one army sitting back and staring in awe of the 2000pt army you FINALLY managed to collect and finish (I was a poor teenager it took a months to save for 1 regiment). For me it was immensely satisfying. Now that im an adult and earn good money i guess that feeling is all but gone coz technically i could walk into GW and buy whatever I want (tho my wife would poison my dinner once she saw me walk in the door with so many boxes of WFB).

Anyways I would like to see them complete all the army books before releasing 8th ed. as i think the 7th ed rules are pretty good. Even then rather than spending time and resources on 8thed rule set I would MUCH MUCH rather they released some half decent expansions my top three would be Warhammer Siege, a re-made and expanded Lustria campaign book, and a hardcover BRB size campaign book for Eastern Kingdoms complete with scenarios for fighting campaigns in the far east and army lists for Cathay, Nippon, Ind, Araby and Khuresh even if they didn't support it with models I would still think its ******* sweet.

loveless
21-07-2009, 14:00
Buy a PC game, play it once, mayb twice if its good, and the kid gets nagged to go outside and play
Buy a small starter kit, the kid can play over and over again, the experience different everytime, and he can meet lots of different people.


This is erroneous.
While it may be true for a strictly linear game (do they still make those?), it isn't true for a general strategy game (Starcraft, Warcraft, Dawn of War, Civilization, etc.), open-world games (GTA, Assassin's Creed, Guerrila, etc.), or anything with decent multiplayer support (take your pick). Most developers work on expanding the amount of gameplay you can have in a single purchase - it's the odd rise of trophy support and whatnot. I'm not a fan, but the majority seem to love it.

The "go outside and play" mentality is applicable to both "competitors" - sit on a computer or sit at a desk painting, either one is going to provoke a parent to tell the child to go outside and get some fresh air and exercise.

Moreover, videogames are often just as social as tabletop games - especially today. Rather than bring over a case of miniatures to play with your friends, you only have to bring, at most, a controller and a disc.

The other thing to note would be the additional costs to the specific kid mentioned in a previous post. If he gets to spend $75 (or whatever BfSP is nowadays), then he can get BfSP...and wait until he has enough money to pick up a hobby starter set and additional paint - or he can get a couple of PC games and start playing now without any additional cost.

That's something GW's going to have to figure out how to overcome, of course. Outside of the artistic side of things, there's not a lot that tabletop gaming does that can't be accomplished by a video game lately (as far as length of play (especially per dollar), social interaction, and even storytelling).


Anyway, I'd just as soon see GW fix the core rules for Fantasy - call 7th a bust and cut their losses - and move on to making the game balanced again.
Fantasy was pretty low on the totem pole last year as far as miniature lines go - they need to add in some "pop" if they want Fantasy to ever be anything more than 40K's sleepy older cousin.

Condottiere
21-07-2009, 15:15
Sooner or later someone will figure out how to bring the tabletop gaming experience to the virtual world (minus painting), and then what?

loveless
21-07-2009, 16:17
Sooner or later someone will figure out how to bring the tabletop gaming experience to the virtual world (minus painting), and then what?

Well, you can pretty much do that with Vassal...I'm not sure what systems all have Vassal support, however.

Ixquic
21-07-2009, 18:24
Not 40k that's for sure!

http://www.vassal40k.com/the-end-has-come/

Captain Cortez
21-07-2009, 19:53
I'll agree that this year WHFB has been a little stagnant. I'm not saying there weren't any new releases.

GW as we know have been shrinking the game system for the last 6 years elminating specialist games which now allot of the vets have been sliding over to games like WarMachine,Rezolution,Hordes,that new WW2 game thing.

Only thing that's been sorta hyped is that new 'Mystery Box' GW has been hinting. However sadly allot of the gamers from what i've seen from other forums is not the surprise of what it may be but again be disapointed of the GW gimic that gamers have been sold to. If that makes sense:angel:.

GW really needs to take advantage of reccesionary times like "Hey we know things are tough right now and us so for this year we will have special discount coupon(s) inside of our products!"

As for WHFB. I think 7th ed is fine, not perfect but good. If GW would lay off somewhat of the 'secrecy' army I would feel much better. Why not show any of the new models? Heck I'll even accept blurry picture of the new Skaven.

Just venting...

loveless
21-07-2009, 21:34
Not 40k that's for sure!

http://www.vassal40k.com/the-end-has-come/

*slow clap for GW* Awesome work.

Though the art is probably the largest bit of problem - it looks rather good (better than the Hordes/Warmachine art, which is already pretty solid).

It's just funny to see how they handle things. GW locks it down. PP lets people post news about it on their official forums (I know of a lot of people that use Vassal for testing new lists).

I fully understand why they'd do it - I won't knock them for it, though I find it a bit funny. Still though, it was a solid tool for trying new lists or finding opponents when you lived in a sparse area.

The real question is, what's going to stop someone else from making the same dang system without the art, someone else from making skins for the armies, and so forth and so on?

Ah well :p

Crazy Harborc
22-07-2009, 02:30
If GW creates such good rules....If GW provides gamers all they need for fun playing good rules/games....If Gw is so far ahead of the other rules companies and minies maker companies....Why is it "necessary" to rewrite the rules and make the old armybooks unuseable every 4 to 6 years??;)

NakedBarbarian
22-07-2009, 02:37
Why is it necesary to make a packet of 10 greatswords $67 (AUS) am I the only one here that thinks some one in the sales department is smoking crack?

StormCrow
22-07-2009, 02:52
Why is it necesary to make a packet of 10 greatswords $67 (AUS) am I the only one here that thinks some one in the sales department is smoking crack?

Yeah, of all GW blunders that one has to take the cake surely. On a side note it's fun listening to a red shirt try to justify the price. "You get 20 sword bits and a giant feather!"

Wow, I'll take three...

Back on topic i firmly agree that WHFB has a total lack of official support at the moment and is definitely at a low point in terms of generating interest. Considering the amount of expansions 40k has compared to WHFB it isn't surprising at all. If the new mystery box turns out to be space hulk or anything 40k related i think my head is going to explode in a tirade of nerd rage.

IsawaShori
22-07-2009, 03:04
It makes me miss the WD Warhammer Chronicles section. It was a great way to help generate or invigorate interest during these low points.

Dark14
22-07-2009, 03:27
if the prices were in the very least reasonable like they used to be it would be very easy to retain interest. newer players cant have to many armys and as such get a release once every 3 years...hard to keep into without a good group.

speedygogo
22-07-2009, 06:15
I'll agree that this year WHFB has been a little stagnant. I'm not saying there weren't any new releases.

GW as we know have been shrinking the game system for the last 6 years elminating specialist games which now allot of the vets have been sliding over to games like WarMachine,Rezolution,Hordes,that new WW2 game thing.

Only thing that's been sorta hyped is that new 'Mystery Box' GW has been hinting. However sadly allot of the gamers from what i've seen from other forums is not the surprise of what it may be but again be disapointed of the GW gimic that gamers have been sold to. If that makes sense:angel:.

GW really needs to take advantage of reccesionary times like "Hey we know things are tough right now and us so for this year we will have special discount coupon(s) inside of our products!"

As for WHFB. I think 7th ed is fine, not perfect but good. If GW would lay off somewhat of the 'secrecy' army I would feel much better. Why not show any of the new models? Heck I'll even accept blurry picture of the new Skaven.

Just venting...

I agree with you. All the GW secrecy is doing is killing interest in the hobby. I read so where on this forum that the statgey was to get gamers to buy other fantasy stuff but people pretty much buy what they want and nothing else anyway.

Condottiere
22-07-2009, 07:03
What kind of strategy is that? Oh, you mean other model ranges from GW? I invested my money in a 42" widescreen instead.

Ixquic
22-07-2009, 11:54
I'm investing my money in Warmachine. There never was enough interest in my group but with the sorry state of Fantasy and everyone figuring out how to exploit 40k we've all gone out and bought PP models.

Maybe it will suck, but if it's good that's money GW has lost.

Nuada
22-07-2009, 12:29
If GW would lay off somewhat of the 'secrecy' army I would feel much better. Why not show any of the new models? Heck I'll even accept blurry picture of the new Skaven.

I don't agree. I think if lots of pics are posted on the net it ruins the timing of any hype for GW. They can't build up any excitement if some kid on warseer has the "seen it, done it" attitude, because he's seen the figures 8 months before they're released.

NakedBarbarian
22-07-2009, 12:48
The bad thing is i've tried other games like warmachine, hordes, even De Bellis Antiquitis, it just doesnt' have the same lustre and depth of background. Its Gw or its nothing

willowdark
22-07-2009, 17:23
I for one am skeptical of this "sorry state" that Fantasy is currently in. Granted, the ridiculous pandering of the recent Lizardmen FAQ has shaken my faith in GW, or rather, reinforced my lack of faith, but I've been excited about every 7th ed book that's come out and so has everyone in my area. Fantasy is flowering here where we've largely been dominated by 40k.

And personally, I'm eager to see the new Beasts, and I have a few friends anxious to get their skaven and TK updated as well.

ogretyrant
22-07-2009, 17:26
Maybe the problem is how GW releases everything in 1 large wave at a time based on their army book releases. It makes things feel like there are huge gaps between releases. I would like to seem them going back to just releasing models as they see fit.. small, consistent releases to keep things fresh and people interested. Its not like most people can afford to purchase all the new models at once when they're all released anyways.

Maybe this is steering off too far.. but I would even like to see them go back to releasing new models/units even after the release of army books. Forcing everything to be stuck in army books make things feel stagnant and a lot of people feel shafted if their armybooks aren't "up to par". The stats of these new units can be put in both WD and perhaps printed on the box or perhaps via insert with the set. Sure, it'd require people to bring the stat sheets instead of just the army book.. but I think it'd atleast make this game feel more like a hobby again. I'd actually look forward to WDs again.. with the possibility of each month having potential for new units. I know some my argue there might be balance issues due to potential lack of testing time.. but its not like things are so balanced now. Plus it seems like 1 unit would be easier to test than an entire army book at a time.

Obviously all just my opinion.

Im with you there man!


The bad thing is i've tried other games like warmachine, hordes, even De Bellis Antiquitis, it just doesnt' have the same lustre and depth of background. Its Gw or its nothing

Eh you read any of the Warmachine/Hordes background? whilst PP have not been around as long as GW the background for there games are evolving with each new ruleset they bring out, much better then the stagnent background for 40k and WFB (although I still love it!) PP are an evolving companey with a bright futre ahead of them, so go play LIKE YOU GOT A PAIR!!!!:D

Ixquic
22-07-2009, 17:36
Im with you there man!



Eh you read any of the Warmachine/Hordes background? whilst PP have not been around as long as GW the background for there games are evolving with each new ruleset they bring out, much better then the stagnent background for 40k and WFB (although I still love it!) PP are an evolving companey with a bright futre ahead of them, so go play LIKE YOU GOT A PAIR!!!!:D

Yeah I don't know much yet but seeing that they have time evolved versions of their characters is a nice chance from characters being the exact same for decades and then when they have the chance to shake things up, everyone goes home for tea instead and they rewrite it out so that everything didn't happen.

Crazy Harborc
23-07-2009, 00:00
The attitude, the perceived negative attitude at GW, in part caused by GW's lack of updates, explanations.....communications with us the sooo unworthy customers.......I've seen it (the attitude) at other companies. The super big ones are still around. Smaller companies are not.

A couple of companies that were making goodies for wargamers had reputations like GW's crashed and burned. It's not always a good idea to ignore customer complaints, customer questions.

But then GW is different.:rolleyes::rolleyes:

DoomBullLiam
23-07-2009, 05:06
In that case two days till we find out then

IsawaShori
23-07-2009, 17:26
In that case two days till we find out then

I don't get it

willowdark
23-07-2009, 17:28
That is so horribly cryptic.

Nuada
23-07-2009, 18:05
I don't get it

The answer to the riddle you seek,
soon revealed within the week
On warseer it can be seen,
take a look at post 17
:)

Slyphor
23-07-2009, 18:43
So much discussion, where to start! I know, the video game discussion: What I think more kids (or interested adults for that matter) should know about the hobby is that it's exactly that - it's a hobby. Gaming is the end result, but it's not the only way to enjoy WHFB. You might get 2 new games for (full price) $120 now, but indeed, if you're any good they'll have run their course in a week or two, playing into the video game store model of buying the games back at huge profits. That same investment in WHFB might net you a much longer and more satisfying experience. While a game that takes 10 hours might cost you $6/hr, assembling, painting and playing might require a greater initial investment, but ultimately your cost per hour will be much lower. Then, of course, you can talk about your fun per cost per hour, which might be where WHFB loses people who aren't interested in the non-gaming part of the hobby.

I also want to address the social aspect of this thread: posters have asserted that you can learn social lessons from the hobby. I would say that's true to a degree. Compared to the anonymous internet where you can play some MMORPG and get all the random crap people would never express in person, WHFB is personable and fairly genteel. However, judging by the games clubs I've stopped by, I think you're more likely to find socially stunted individuals at these clubs than you might if you "went outside and played." Not to knock the hobby, I consider myself to be well-rounded, but I'm just suggesting that "meeting people" and "being social" might not be the highest quality cornerstone on which to base a marketing campaign. Alternately, I might just need to find a better gaming group.

Cost: Having seen so many posts on WarSeer about strategy and math hammer, I can only assume that the majority who visit the site are more about the gaming than about the assembling/modeling/painting (I expect to be "proven" wrong about that assertion, but it's what I've witnessed). In the case that people are more about the gaming, then the relative cost of units ($67 AUS for 10 greatswords or $50 for 10 phoenix guard) shouldn't matter too much - use plastic bases if you aren't interested in the rest of the hobby. Not every WHFB player can aspire to painting greatness as well as tactical superiority - in fact, from personal experience, I would say that most nerds have worse hand-eye coordination than the average person and are, therefore, unsuited to painting or assembling fiddly models. That suggestion doesn't seem fun to me, but I'm biased towards the painting side. The most problematic part of this whole discussion is not how WHFB stacks up against video games, playing outdoors, or less expensive hobbies, but why people are so much more often attracted to 40K.

Can someone please tell me why you think 40K dominates the Warhammer space? What is it that makes 40K more enticing to people?

-Sly

Condottiere
23-07-2009, 20:32
Oh joy, Cthulhu Crabmen unveiled.

Grimstonefire
23-07-2009, 21:02
I don't get it

The implication I believe is that there *might* be some big announcement at games day chicago, at which point you will know why there has been a lull in fantasy releases. ;)

NakedBarbarian
23-07-2009, 22:23
The implication I believe is that there *might* be some big announcement at games day chicago, at which point you will know why there has been a lull in fantasy releases. ;)

I think we're all waiting for a breath of fresh air in a crowded room of stale farts

orlanth1000
24-07-2009, 06:33
What is this based on, in regards to release of info at gamesday? are there sources in regards to this, or are we just being teased again by people who have no heart what so ever?

NakedBarbarian
24-07-2009, 07:32
Oh joy, Cthulhu Crabmen unveiled.

The new army is supposedly able to be used in both fantasy and 40k, or so ive heard

Condottiere
24-07-2009, 08:18
And an aquatic race has no access to spaceships?

NakedBarbarian
24-07-2009, 09:00
Perhaps they fly in giant space whales?

loveless
24-07-2009, 13:58
I thought all of that "new army" stuff was debunked as random wishlisting.

Grimstonefire
24-07-2009, 15:17
I think one way or another we will find out very soon, maybe not this weekend, but probably after games day uk (where they will be quizzed to death). ;)

It wasn't debunked as wishlisting btw, it became random wishlisting. Any small elements of truth disappeared in the 40+ page threads.

TheReckoning
24-07-2009, 17:13
This is erroneous.
While it may be true for a strictly linear game (do they still make those?), it isn't true for a general strategy game (Starcraft, Warcraft, Dawn of War, Civilization, etc.), open-world games (GTA, Assassin's Creed, Guerrila, etc.), or anything with decent multiplayer support (take your pick). Most developers work on expanding the amount of gameplay you can have in a single purchase - it's the odd rise of trophy support and whatnot. I'm not a fan, but the majority seem to love it.

The "go outside and play" mentality is applicable to both "competitors" - sit on a computer or sit at a desk painting, either one is going to provoke a parent to tell the child to go outside and get some fresh air and exercise.

Moreover, videogames are often just as social as tabletop games - especially today. Rather than bring over a case of miniatures to play with your friends, you only have to bring, at most, a controller and a disc.

The other thing to note would be the additional costs to the specific kid mentioned in a previous post. If he gets to spend $75 (or whatever BfSP is nowadays), then he can get BfSP...and wait until he has enough money to pick up a hobby starter set and additional paint - or he can get a couple of PC games and start playing now without any additional cost.

That's something GW's going to have to figure out how to overcome, of course. Outside of the artistic side of things, there's not a lot that tabletop gaming does that can't be accomplished by a video game lately (as far as length of play (especially per dollar), social interaction, and even storytelling).


Anyway, I'd just as soon see GW fix the core rules for Fantasy - call 7th a bust and cut their losses - and move on to making the game balanced again.
Fantasy was pretty low on the totem pole last year as far as miniature lines go - they need to add in some "pop" if they want Fantasy to ever be anything more than 40K's sleepy older cousin.

Registered here just to say how true this post is.

I'd bet GW have fewer and fewer new players each year, and that a business strategy which drives away the more loyal and long-term of fans is not going to be good for them.

The game needs balancing and GW have to stop this arrogant operating style. White Dwarf used to have money-saving tips, fun ideas and conversions, how to use spare parts to make scenery, but now it just seems like an overpriced brochure advertising the lastest overpriced, overpowered release. A lot of the WHFB players I know have stopped subscribing to it because of how dire it is.

Condottiere
24-07-2009, 17:14
It's a fantasy game, and lots of fantasizing took place - it seems unlikely that a new army would be introduced, since you'd have to ask yourself what slot or niche would it fill?

Warhammer Madman
24-07-2009, 17:56
It's a fantasy game, and lots of fantasizing took place - it seems unlikely that a new army would be introduced, since you'd have to ask yourself what slot or niche would it fill?

It would fill the Beat vampires, deamons and dark elf niche...

Seriously if GW are interested in ballance introduceing a new army is the last thing they should do! How will this attract new players? What they need is to deepen the fluff and bring the books up to speed...

I know the majority of Fantasy players in my area are 40K players who want a new system (with tactics not "I have 200 Shots I Win!"). I also know I joined the ranks of the fantasy players because of the fluff so can't GW exsploit this?

Where would a new army fit in? maybee a few varient lists would be cool but I cant see a new Race or empire spring up (unless they re-did kislev or did Cathay)...

willowdark
24-07-2009, 18:03
Chaos Dwarfs would be the way to go. A full blown reintroduction of Chaos Dwarfs into mainstream Warhammer Fantasy would go a long way to inspire jaded veterans and bring back some of this dimension that people seem to be missing.

Slyphor
25-07-2009, 00:37
Chaos Dwarfs would be the way to go. A full blown reintroduction of Chaos Dwarfs into mainstream Warhammer Fantasy would go a long way to inspire jaded veterans and bring back some of this dimension that people seem to be missing.

only if they weren't as totally hideous as the previous incarnation (model-wise)

also, I'm with the "no new race" camp, make the current ones more fun/balanced/less broken or whatever! Ogres, being the last race introduced can teach us something about this strategy of keeping people interested by introducing a new race: don't do it. Ogres are fine, but if GW put more effort into the amazing (and amazing number) of current races, then there wouldn't be a niche to be filled.

Finally, I have to mention, it's too egregious not to, @Warhammer Madman; spell some words right.

NakedBarbarian
25-07-2009, 03:25
I tend to support the introduction of an army already existing in the fluff like Kislev, Chaos dwarves, Cathay or Araby.

IsawaShori
25-07-2009, 03:36
Chaos Dwarfs would be the way to go. A full blown reintroduction of Chaos Dwarfs into mainstream Warhammer Fantasy would go a long way to inspire jaded veterans and bring back some of this dimension that people seem to be missing.

GW has stated that Chaos Dwarves are to get a new army book in 7th edition. I have head much speculation that this is the new army to be unvieled.

DarkTerror
25-07-2009, 03:39
Chaos Dwarfs would be the way to go. A full blown reintroduction of Chaos Dwarfs into mainstream Warhammer Fantasy would go a long way to inspire jaded veterans and bring back some of this dimension that people seem to be missing.

I think bringing back the Chaos Dwarfs would indeed get some veterans to play, but I don't think it's necessarily what Warhammer needs. CD have somewhat of a cult following, they're not loved by all. I know many people don't mind that they're no longer an official army.

Condottiere
25-07-2009, 07:06
They'd have to do something spectacular with the Chaos Dwarves, since they would have to reintroduce at least a dozen unit types to make it a viable army. Otherwise, they'll be left holding a lot of stock.

Harry
25-07-2009, 07:13
Is it just me, or has there been a long lull in fantasy? I know some new Empire stuff came out fairly recently, but that has been really under advertised.

How come?
They just got busy with other stuff. The 4th edition of 40k and Apocalypse and all the new stuff to support these just sucked the studio in to the grim dark of the far future for a while. But that did not stop major developments for LotR, nor did it stop them revisiting Orcs and Goblins, Empire, High Elves, Dwarves, Vampire Counts, Dark Elves, Warriors of Chaos and introducing Daemons of Chaos for Fantasy. So they have not done so bad in the last couple of years.

However having said that, after the major developments in the other systems it is now Fantasy's turn in the spotlight.


It wouldn't be so annoying if it wasn't for GW's new super silence on everything policy. It's hard to wait for stuff when you have no idea what you are waiting for and when it's even coming out. A lot of Fantasy players I know have no confidence that Skaven is being released anytime soon and the overall scene is dead except for like 3 people at the local store. Also it's impossible to be excited about new plastic models that come or for exactly the same price as they were before.

Anyone who believes that there will ever be a "year of "fantasy" is living in a fool's paradise.
Cheer up a bit mate.:D

You know exactly what you are waiting for... (IN ALPHABETICAL ORDER)
Beasts of Chaos, Bretonnians, Ogre Kingdoms, Skaven, Tomb Kings,
Wood elves and ... and anything else they decide to do.
You know when its coming ...
If they keep up the current pace they will revisit all these armies in the next two years.
Skaven is coming out in November.

Next year will be a big year for fantasy. Anyone who thinks this is not happening is only fooling themselves. GW has not abandoned Warhammer Fantasy Battle.


That's the point. If we knew Skaven or Tomb Kings were coming out in August, September or whatever (even the direction the army was going to be taking) or there is such and such cool model coming out soon there would be something to look forward to and be interested in the future of the game. Due to the super secrecy that's become policy as of late who know what's happening and when so it's not worth the energy to think about upcoming Fantasy stuff.
LOL How much energy does it take. :D
You sound like your about to top yourself ... its not that bad really.

Go read the Skaven thread. The release is still over three months away and there are plenty of juicy rumours there. (Some of them are even accurate. :D) Seriously there is as much if not more known about Skaven at this point than we knew about the Orcs and Goblins this far before their release back at the start of 7th. (Honest. I know I was there).

Things have not changed that much. It just feels that way. (because things had fot a bit out of hand and they have just pulled it back a bit ...
... to where it was before).

The 'super secrey policy' does not exist. GW just don't want folks getting months and years ahead of what's coming next. The problem is the Studio works 18 months , 2 years ahead, sometimes even longer on big projects. If they talk about what they are doing NOW no one will see it for years and will be bored with talking about it by the time it comes out. They are still talking about stuff just what is coming out next not twelve months from now.



Leaking rumors will just a likely create anger for the new product which could just as easily hurt sails as it might help.

High Elf ASF anyone?
No thanks. Been there, done that. :D


Well....considering the the new improved price of the 7th Edition starter box the current selection of troops in the box should not be limited to just the Goblins and Dwarves.

A grandson was interested.....until he did the math. He picked two PC games for the same total price over the starter box. Way to go GW!
Ohhhhhh come on. That starter set was a great buy and had a boat load of minis in and everything you needed to have a lot of fun. They have to pick a couple of armies so you get decent size forces. I can't even believe folks keep doing this with the computer game thing. Like it is a choice one thing or the other. Kids watch TV and play computer games, and play football and ride a bike. I did all those things but I bought a D&D starter set when I was a boy and was sucked into a hobby which has filled the rest of my days. (It doesn't mean I never watched TV again, didn't play sport all through college and long after, never got on a bike again. Hell, I still play the odd computer game). Kids that are going to play computer games will play computer games. It says more about the kid than the price or contents of the Starter set. Kids that are not interested in a a world of toy soldiers and war gaming are not going to become interested if you gave them the box free and it contained 500 toy soldiers. Kids that are going to loose themselves in a world of toy soldiers and war gaming will find their way there one way or another. We did. (and we had no starter sets, next to no money to buy figures when we we kids, no high street stores, yet here we are).


Why is it necesary to make a packet of 10 greatswords $67 (AUS) am I the only one here that thinks some one in the sales department is smoking crack?
No, that is the most stupid thing they have done in a long time. :D

You seem to have been talking a lot of remarkable good sense throughout this thread .... what's come over you? :D

Nuada
25-07-2009, 07:59
If they talk about what they are doing NOW no one will see it for years and will be bored with talking about it by the time it comes out. They are still talking about stuff just what is coming out next not twelve months from now.

Yes totally agree. The new skaven figures are superb. Just wait until you see the screaming bell with the optional "huge swinging censor ball with smoke coming out the back", such a good range. All the plastics they are doing nowdays are amazing.

People do seem to be very eager to buy GW figures still, and becomming annoyed that new ones aren't coming out sooner. Still appears to be alot of demand.

NakedBarbarian
25-07-2009, 08:49
You seem to have been talking a lot of remarkable good sense throughout this thread .... what's come over you? :D

Why, do i normally talk like a gibbering idiot? :cheese:

Bingo the Fun Monkey
25-07-2009, 08:53
Honestly, this stuff is like crack. I started reading this thread thinking it'd reinforce my decision to give up on FB gaming. Now I'm plotting out how I'm going to strip my old skaven...and maybe re-do just the savage orcs in my 5k horde...and clean those mould lines I left on my BoC all those years ago...my old high elves? nope, no chance there. yuck.

orlanth1000
26-07-2009, 03:06
@Bingo........i agree how disturbingly addictive there rumout threads are, this damn site has sucked me in so badly, reminds me of hotel california/eagles "you can check out.......but you can never leave"

@Harry.........classic

Queekvondrak
27-07-2009, 14:13
40k is much more balanced. If they ever manage to balance fantasy then people might start buying it again.

theres a reason they call it kiddy k the only reason that 40k is balanced is because they keep mainstreaming the armies it used to be more complicated back in 3rd and 2nd ed but now that everything is the same they might as well make the game one army with a handfull of varients these days

Ixquic
27-07-2009, 14:53
one army with a handfull of varients these days

They're already halfway there if you get my drift

EvC
29-07-2009, 17:56
Go read the Skaven thread. The release is still over three months away and there are plenty of juicy rumours there. (Some of them are even accurate. :D) Seriously there is as much if not more known about Skaven at this point than we knew about the Orcs and Goblins this far before their release back at the start of 7th. (Honest. I know I was there).

Things have not changed that much. It just feels that way. (because things had fot a bit out of hand and they have just pulled it back a bit ...
... to where it was before).

That's the thing though. Things HAVE changed- back when Orcs and Goblins 7th edition were released, it was an exciting time, there were new army books coming out every 3 months and an entire edition had just been released. Every couple of weeks you'd see fantastic new pictures of new releases, stuff that was really exciting. Second waves actually existed then, now the term is synonymous with wishlists. These days, with new armies releases less than half as often, that means half as many rumours, spread out over twice the time period. It makes the progress look really slow and dull!

And yes you can say "Oh Azhag is coming...", but that's one model. Yes, we had a few Empire things released this year as well, they were interesting but GW managed to overshadow that with their crazy price rises.

And you can also say "next year will be REALLY exciting!!!" but then I'm sure you said that about last year, and this year, which have been the slowest years for Warhammer in a while. Maybe they'll re-release Nagash with a new hat. Yay.

Ixquic
29-07-2009, 19:43
Also it's hard to be excited for Azhag when a) he's a special character for an army that's not very popular right now b) he's riding a mid-sized monster which is one of the worst places for a character to be and c) he's mediocre in terms of ability especially when compared to Grimgore. It's the kind of thing that will only appeal to die hard orc model collectors so everybody else is like "meh."

Even if you don't play an army, a new release with new rules and model kits can be exciting. One character for an underpowered army isn't very interesting. And seconding that the recent Empire release was totally overshadowed by their asinine pricing of the boxes.

shabbadoo
30-07-2009, 03:56
It probably seems like a lull because there hasn't been much in the way of variety regarding WFB releases lately. Empire. Followed by more Empire. And now, more Empire! EMPIRE!

Yes, not exactly the things that will get a diverse group of people all fired up about WFB, unless of course you play EMPIRE! All of the Empire players still need opponents though, and if they are lacking due to a lack of interest, well then, the number of WFB games being played will be...lacking.

Sure, there has been a lull, but things will pick up over then next 18 months. A nice summer event of some kind would be good for WFB, and I don't mean a world-wide vent, just a campaign pack of linked scenarios, and how the campaign hooks can be tailored to fit each of the armies(i.e. "What the heck are Lizardmen doing in Khemri fighting the Tomb Kings? Well you see, there's this trio of ancient artifacts...", etc.). Such inclusive things serve to generate interest across the board, and coupled with new WFB releases it would have an even greater impact.

Just some crazy ramblings. Now I'll just go back to working on my Bretonnians. :D

Condottiere
30-07-2009, 06:38
My feeling is that the next eighteen months may remain relatively barren for Fantasy, beyond the obligatory releases.

Harry
30-07-2009, 08:17
My feeling is that the next eighteen months may remain relatively barren for Fantasy, beyond the obligatory releases.

What are the obligatory releases????

My feeling is that the whilst the next six months is fairly quiet the next eighteen months after that is going to be pretty busy for fantasy.

Nephilim of Sin
30-07-2009, 08:46
Also it's hard to be excited for Azhag when a) he's a special character for an army that's not very popular right now b) he's riding a mid-sized monster which is one of the worst places for a character to be and c) he's mediocre in terms of ability especially when compared to Grimgore. It's the kind of thing that will only appeal to die hard orc model collectors so everybody else is like "meh."

:confused:

While the army may not be 'popular', the majority of the people who collect OnG will play OnG.... we just like to complain about it:D (And we have every right!). However;

1.) A character on Wyvern for an orc army is not bad at all, and can be a very smart choice.
2.) He provides an animosity re-roll within 6 inches. Not bad at all, and by the time he is needed to be 6 inches away for that to matter, your boyz should be in combat anyways.
3.) He is a fighty character on Wyvern, with 5 re-roll to-hit attacks at strength 5 (yes first round each combat only, but again, he shouldn't be used against tarpit units)
4.) He is also a lvl 2 wizard with access to the lore of Death, which means those big ol' units you are trodding around have the chance to cause fear (per that one spell), which is advantageous and also defensive (against fear/terror causers).
5.) And, again, he is on a Wyvern! Not to mention that this had the potential to become one of those fabled 'unreleased models', and it didn't.
6.) It is miles ahead of the chub-lizard we poor greenies have access to right now.

Yeah, he has the disadvantage of Stupidity, but that is at least on ld 9. Overall, he is not bad at all, and I think that people have discounted how useful he could be in an OnG army, especially since he hasn't had a model since 4th/5th.

I think it is a very good sign to get a special character released during a 'lull' period for fantasy, especially since these things are usually timed around the current army book coming out.

EDIT:

@EvC: All Nagash really needs is a new hat, and some special rules:p. Of course, were he released, that would actually be the biggest impact upon fantasy, considering the implications of making him a usable character.

Ixquic
30-07-2009, 11:56
I'm not saying he's terrible I'm saying he's mediocre. Also people who collect models aren't always the same type who play with them. For instance I play several different fantasy armies, two of which are Orcs and Vampire Counts. I really like the look and feel of the Vampire army so I get a lot of the models, paint them up nicely, do themed lists, get collectors stuff when it becomes available (like the Red Duke and the Zombie Pirates). However with Orcs I bought the book, figured out what the best stuff was and made an army around that. I could care less about stuff like "the chase" or that model of the orc hitting the other one. I still haven't even primed them and don't really have any plans to start that aspect of the hobby since I just like playing the game with them. On the other end of the spectrum there's a group of people I know that paint Bretonnians and Space Marines but haven't played a game in years and a guy that painted up an entire night goblin army but has played with them once or twice.

Azhag is alright but from a gaming perspective not terribly exciting. He's on a large target so every warmachine on the table will be shooting at him and with only a 5+ ward he's in a dangerous position. Hiding him means he's probably not in a good place for units to benefit from his quell animosity rule. With a leadership of 9, he's going to statistically fail stupidity once a game, and with goblins who need his leadership bubble to even charge elves half the time that can be devastating so he's not as reliable as a regular Orc. Additionally mid-range monsters (Wyverns, Griffins, Hypogriths) aren't that great. T5 and a large target with no armor or ward saves means a good round of shooting will take them down so you have to play conservatively with them. Stupidity can make that difficult and risky. He's not terrible or anything but people could easily be using proxy Azhags right now very easily (most Orcs looks the same more or less anyway) and you rarely see him fielded (I never have). The people who are getting excited for this model are more that likely the people that really like the look of Orcs and think it's cool, not necessarily the people that play them since they could be playing with him today if they wanted to.

If you aren't that sort of person there's no reason to care about this model is all I'm saying and doesn't do anything to alleviate the current barren fantasy schedule.

EvC
30-07-2009, 13:33
Indeed. If it was one release among a few (Like how on 40K you had Stompas and Stormblades and Valkyries all released close to each other), like adding a High Elf Griffon to the range, or a release of Trish's gnarly Dragons, it would make it feel special. Now it just feels like a lovely exception.

MrWoten
30-07-2009, 14:11
Umm, what's your grandson going to do in a month when he's beat both of those games? He can return them and perhaps get a budget title but again, after another 2 weeks what is he going to do?

IMO the GW hobby has a lot more longevity to it and teaches (some) social and other skills. Additionally it'll actually get him out of the house.


QFT
Buy a PC game, play it once, mayb twice if its good, and the kid gets nagged to go outside and play
Buy a small starter kit, the kid can play over and over again, the experience different everytime, and he can meet lots of different people.

IMO there has to be something said about when you were just a kid, saving for ages to buy one unit, the excitement of assembling and painting, playing with your friends and showing off your latest toys, and after a couple of years of dedication collecting the one army sitting back and staring in awe of the 2000pt army you FINALLY managed to collect and finish (I was a poor teenager it took a months to save for 1 regiment). For me it was immensely satisfying. Now that im an adult and earn good money i guess that feeling is all but gone coz technically i could walk into GW and buy whatever I want (tho my wife would poison my dinner once she saw me walk in the door with so many boxes of WFB).

Anyways I would like to see them complete all the army books before releasing 8th ed. as i think the 7th ed rules are pretty good. Even then rather than spending time and resources on 8thed rule set I would MUCH MUCH rather they released some half decent expansions my top three would be Warhammer Siege, a re-made and expanded Lustria campaign book, and a hardcover BRB size campaign book for Eastern Kingdoms complete with scenarios for fighting campaigns in the far east and army lists for Cathay, Nippon, Ind, Araby and Khuresh even if they didn't support it with models I would still think its ******* sweet.


I bought Team Fortress 2 for $20 USD. It features voice chat and a ( obviously ) solid focus on team play. Many servers are hosted and played on by regulars with small but thriving communities. Been playing for a little over a year now and I'm still playing it along with many, many others.

I think I've gotten more out of it then the $600+ I've dropped on Space Marines.

Crazy Harborc
30-07-2009, 18:39
I bought Team Fortress 2 for $20 USD. It features voice chat and a ( obviously ) solid focus on team play. Many servers are hosted and played on by regulars with small but thriving communities. Been playing for a little over a year now and I'm still playing it along with many, many others.

I think I've gotten more out of it then the $600+ I've dropped on Space Marines.

Says alot about whether or not higher prices and/or more money spent mean a better value.....more bang for your buck.;) Enjoy the better/more fun for less money spent.:)

Condottiere
01-08-2009, 14:30
What are the obligatory releases????

My feeling is that the whilst the next six months is fairly quiet the next eighteen months after that is going to be pretty busy for fantasy.First Skaven end of this year, then another two spread out next year.

Harry
01-08-2009, 15:42
No. There is a lot more in the schedule for Fantasy next year. Honest.

Nuada
01-08-2009, 15:50
He speaks the truth

Ultimate Life Form
01-08-2009, 15:53
So will it be something breath-takingly new or just business as usual?

Condottiere
01-08-2009, 15:54
Depends on your basic view of GW.

BlackIce
01-08-2009, 18:04
No. There is a lot more in the schedule for Fantasy next year. Honest.
So more than two army book releases or are you referring to more waves of miniatures releases, or both?!:)

Baggers
01-08-2009, 18:27
So more than two army book releases or are you referring to more waves of miniatures releases, or both?!:)

From what I know, and thats not a lot. Its both. There are at least one wave and three books that I know work has been done on.

Weemo
01-08-2009, 18:42
really hope they do something for fantasy soon, its beginning to get tiresome