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Netfreakk
19-07-2009, 19:23
I'm thinking about starting another army, I currently play Dark angels and wanted to know what army was currently the most competitive. Please give a response in why you believe the army you chose is the most competitive.

Thanks and sorry if this was already done, as I can't seem to find it using the search function.

*edit*
I was only able to make 10 polls, thus did not include necrons or Dark Eldar.

captain ceaser
19-07-2009, 19:25
Depends on the way you play. Eldar, orcs, chaos, are probly the most competitive but there are others that can win if used correctly.

Ouroboros
19-07-2009, 19:33
Orks. It's very hard to make a "bad" Ork army and if you put a little thought into it, very easy to make a very good one.

Orks is an army where you can either put together most of the stuff you think is cool and fluffy and still end up with a really viable gaming army. Or one where you can powergame your ass off and end up with a powergame list that'll put most other powergamer lists to shame.

IAMNOTHERE
19-07-2009, 19:38
CSM lists almost play themselves, you only start getting problems when you want to play a fluffy list.

samiens
19-07-2009, 19:45
Orks I think- not only is it very hard to make a bad list whatever you take but the model count/shenanigans tend to be quite forgiving. Really though its a relative dead heat between eldar, chaos marines and orks

Legionary
19-07-2009, 19:53
Orks and Chaos Marines. New tactics often swing the balance between them, so it's difficult to say which is the very top.

Reaver83
19-07-2009, 19:55
It'd ruin your poll if no body gave you the right answer wouldn't it?

darker4308
19-07-2009, 19:56
As far as competative armies go I have a very hard time playing against ork armies. The damn things touch you in hand to hand and your dead due to a massive number of attacks and power claws. That battlewagon they have is a pain the ass too and don't get me started on nob bikers.

Eldar can also be competative, but as you will notice most of the guys who are winning are doing jetlocks. Jetlocks are an everything killer that basically exist because someone never thought anyone would actually do it --- and that editions since the last only made them better. So are they competative? yes ... but only in one build.

IG can also be very competative in several builds, but for some reason I havn't seen enough IG victories which makes me wonder.

ARVO
19-07-2009, 20:03
Very little can beat an Eldar army in the hands of a very skilled player.

Vaktathi
19-07-2009, 20:11
I'd say Orks probably, their ability to simply make the army able to take more punishment than an enemy can possibly deal out coupled with their hitting power, in almost any build makes them extremely powerful.

Guard can also now be extremely powerful, but still have their classic problems with overcrowded deployment zones and anything getting amongst the line.

CSM's and Eldar are still very powerful as well.

My personal ranking in terms of power would be

1: Orks
2: Chaos Space Marines
3: Imperial Guard
4: Eldar
5: Space Marines
6: Witch Hunters
7: Space Wolves
8: Tyranids
9: Black Templars
10: Tau
11: Dark Eldar (still quite amazing against MEQ's, but seem to struggle terribly against horde armies like Orks and IG, especially mech IG)
12: Chaos Daemons
13: Dark Angels
14: Blood Angels
15: Necrons
16: Daemonhunters

Lord Damocles
19-07-2009, 20:13
Chaos - double Lash gives you l33t skillz.

Pooky
19-07-2009, 22:01
I think Eldar and CSM are the most competitive army. I'm actually a little surprised about Orks being rated so high...?

hawo0313
19-07-2009, 22:05
Definately orks but also eldar can do well the fire ragons in wave serpent is practically cheating! many AV 14 vehicle has exploded turn 1 from it

weirdo2590
19-07-2009, 22:12
Well, dark eldar wasnt even on the poll. You make me sad :(

Vepr
19-07-2009, 22:20
Horde Tyranid with nothing but hormagaunts and CC warriors. :p

ARVO
19-07-2009, 22:23
Horde Tyranid with nothing but hormagaunts and CC warriors. :p

Thats sarcasm right?

only joking...
19-07-2009, 22:27
Orks with loads of nobz of any kind ;)

Askari
19-07-2009, 22:36
Orks.

They are pretty good with most lists you can make.
Otherwise it comes down to lists;

Chaos Space Marines, with their Plague Marine/Obliterator spam.
Eldar, with Jetbike Council and Falcons
Space Marines, with Assault Terminator spam
Chaos Daemons with Kairos and the Bloodcrushers

They'd be my top 5 competitive lists.

Max Jet
19-07-2009, 22:47
Chaos Space Marines definately

Terminators for the 3/4th the price they used to have in Space Marine 4th edition. Cheaper Land Raiders, cheaper Predators, cheaper dreadnoughts compared to an allready powerfull army. Double Lash Princes, basic marines plus 1 LD minus 2 points in a game, that needs good troops and additional tooling options.
And the high ranking lists say that I am right.
Followed by Orks (though I am surprised as they tend to get problems when faced with a tank heavy force.. I mean their weakness is so obvious! OO)
But I think Orks deserved it. So many years with an underpowered codex. Other than Chaos they deserve it.

Askari
19-07-2009, 22:50
Chaos Space Marines definately

Terminators for the 3/4th the price they used to have in Space Marine 4th edition.

And without the Power Fists. With them, same price.


cheaper dreadnoughts

Now your credibility is gone.. you're advocating Dreadnoughts as a reason why Chaos Space Marines are the strongest? :wtf: :p

Xarius
19-07-2009, 22:53
orks as a horde/nob bikers are just an army that has too much to kill but chaos (less so eldar in 5th) have to really tune the lists but are still smashing.

guard are rising up as competitive as they can shoot more of everything than anyone and can just spam templates/mass shots. especially with orders

Blackmoor
19-07-2009, 23:05
It is way too early to say if the IG codex is very powerful. It needs about 6 months, and success at some major tournaments before people can sing itís praises.

Eldar have one tough build (Seer Council)

Chaos has one top build (Dual Lash+Oblits)

But there are many ways to make a top tier Ork list so they get my vote.

Max Jet
19-07-2009, 23:08
Now your credibility is gone.. you're advocating Dreadnoughts as a reason why Chaos Space Marines are the strongest?

I never understood why no one takes it in smaller point games! Really.
You obviously never suffered by the fire frenzy modus getting your unit seriously damaged.
And I would like to hear your opinion since you have just picked two arguments and declared them wrong.

Oh wait.. you are a chaos player...

40k Boy
19-07-2009, 23:13
I can't believe Guard got more votes than non-codex space marines! I play Space Wolves a lot with Guard, and teh best i've had so far is a draw :)

AFnord
19-07-2009, 23:14
It's a dead race between the top 3: eldar, orks & CSM. Not far behind comes IG, followed by space marines.

Cry of the Wind
19-07-2009, 23:24
I going with Orks. I hate them and will never play them but having bought their codex and played a few games against and watched many more I can't see anything else coming close. The whole codex is filled with decent to good units in every section with only a couple duds.

This alone makes it more competitive than other armies simply because it is not a one trick pony list. CSM always need the lash to cheese it seems and Eldar need their warlock bikers. The fact that you have several different builds all of which will do well against all comers makes Orks the number one choice. I've seen battle wagon armies, foot hordes, kan/dread mobs and mech for Ork and all of them have done very well.

Askari
19-07-2009, 23:37
You obviously never suffered by the fire frenzy modus getting your unit seriously damaged.

Oh wait.. you are a chaos player...

Yes I am.

And yes I have.
My Dreadnoughts routinely kill more of my men than the enemy's.
I still take them, because I care little for competitive games, but they're still terrible choices in that environment.

The other argument is "wrong" (which I never said), because you claim the Terminators are cheaper... yes they are, but with worse equipment also, offsetting the cheaper points cost.

madival
19-07-2009, 23:39
lol, necrons arent even on the poll options ^_^

Lord Cook
19-07-2009, 23:43
Orks, Chaos and Eldar in my view.

But Dark Eldar can be incredibly powerful in the hands of a veteran player, so it was a mistake to leave them out.

Vepr
20-07-2009, 00:34
Thats sarcasm right?

Ok I suppose you could add one Biovore for total domination...

Kriegfreak
20-07-2009, 01:13
Orks

they is nasty

e2055261
20-07-2009, 03:36
I put IG andI'm a bit surprised about the orks being up there. Have played against orks on numerous occasions with my guard and only lost one game.

I think perhaps the poll is slightly flawed in that some armies are more competitive against certain others. I know that I fear the tyranids the most with my guard, for example.

CEO Kasen
20-07-2009, 03:39
Wow, there's a couple of surprises. I knew Orks'd be high, but outstripping their nearest competitor over 3 to 1?

That and I didn't expect Eldar to be that low. Mechanized or Seer Council, they're pretty annoying.

BrotherMoses
20-07-2009, 04:21
How many of these top armies are only so powerful with like one or two of their builds I wonder though. For example, CSM. Whats it got besides dual lash + oblits build.

Zingbaby
20-07-2009, 04:30
My personal ranking in terms of power would be

1: Orks
2: Chaos Space Marines
3: Imperial Guard
4: Eldar
5: Space Marines
6: Witch Hunters
7: Space Wolves
8: Tyranids
9: Black Templars
10: Tau
11: Dark Eldar (still quite amazing against MEQ's, but seem to struggle terribly against horde armies like Orks and IG, especially mech IG)
12: Chaos Daemons
13: Dark Angels
14: Blood Angels
15: Necrons
16: Daemonhunters

Overall a very good list imo... My top five would be:

Ork
Imperial Guard
Tyranids
Chaos Marines
Space Marines

Dictator
20-07-2009, 04:58
Orks are most definitely at the top. They are a very forgiving army with such high toughness infantry and awesome special rules. I cannot think of an army that is just so great at winning.

Chaos with plague marines are also up there, but still, Orks take the cake.

Hicks
20-07-2009, 05:01
I would say that Orks have the most powerfull codex by a mile.

Exia Angel
20-07-2009, 05:57
I chose Eldar. They aren't always easy to play, but they can be geared to anything. Generally, I think they can be the deadliest army, in the right hands.

-Exia

the1stpip
20-07-2009, 06:32
Well, dark eldar wasnt even on the poll. You make me sad :(

QFT.

How did nids rate so highly?

Ganymene
20-07-2009, 06:35
I didn't vote because I think it depends a lot on the build, the opponent, and the general.

But, I would say the top tier would contain:

Orks
Eldar
Chaos Space Marines

Satan
20-07-2009, 06:41
And people still don't tihnk this game needs a comp system?

Vaktathi
20-07-2009, 07:05
And people still don't tihnk this game needs a comp system?

Nope. In fact, in most comp systems, the most powerful army out there right now (Orks) does extremely well. There are always ways to break a comp system just as easily as one can break a game without a comp system.

Comp systems really are silly. They really have a hard time taking into account the various differences between armies (i.e. Tau rely more on Elites than Orks, which rely more on Troops than Eldar, which rely more on HQ's than Chaos Daemons, etc...) and that Swedish thing was a nightmare of horrific subjective penalties of which at the very least half were random and unnecessarily harsh.

Furthermore, 40k's problems of balance are nothing compared with Fantasy.

Souleater
20-07-2009, 07:33
I was only able to make 10 polls, thus did not include necrons or Dark Eldar.

Well, you had to squeeze in three different MEQ entries. :eyebrows:

Netfreakk
20-07-2009, 07:38
Well, you had to squeeze in three different MEQ entries. :eyebrows:

I'm sorry I didn't, but I didn't think that necron was considered a top tier and I have to admit that I was more interested in the other races and so thought to not include necron and dark eldar when faced with only 10 slot choices.

On a side note, I was wondering just for my own personal curiosity, I heard/read that daemons were one of the most competitive. Due to the limitations of only picking what you think was the MOST competitive would anyone put daemons as top 5?

Hypaspist
20-07-2009, 08:00
I would add my vote to the Orks list, based on the fact that excluding Stairs, Nob Bikers are incredibly tough, but outside of this wound allocation nightmare they still have a lot of good choices. In fact when you read the codex, there is *almost* nothing that you wouldn't look at and think about taking. Vaktathi's list was pretty much on the button though in overall ranking.

Radium
20-07-2009, 08:08
Yep, Orks. I've said it before, but here goes again: put all the choices on a dartboard and throw darts at it until you have enough points. Now you have a viable army. Or you could sit down and think about your list some more and you have a very, very strong army.

eldaran
20-07-2009, 08:14
The question is, do you mean the most competative army, or the most competative build?

Because this has an effect on the answer. In my opinion, the most competative army and most competative build trophy has to go to the orks, since they (as other people have said) have virtually no units that you wouldn't take, except lucky gits and maybe warbuggies/trakks/skorchas, but even then i can see a niche for warbuggies.

However, whilst Eldar and Chaos DO have very competative builds, in the form of jetseer councils and lash-plague-oblit spam respectively, i don't think that that makes them one of the top tier competative armies. In fact, in terms of competative armies, i would place them quite low, because they only have the one/two competative builds.

If you take a moment to listen to my (twisted) logic, a top-tier competative army should have plenty of destructive builds possible that all have an equal chance of winning. SM's have that - they're harder to use effectively, but they're still there. It's the same with Guard, which is a trend i hope to see continued with the following 5th ed codexes

However, the 4th ed Eldar and Chaos Codexes have very few competative builds, with several units that are filed under the label of "you don't want to take those in a competative list! they aren't worth the points!" (specifically units like Swooping Hawks and Vypers for Eldar and Possessed and Spawn for Chaos) and other units which are regarded as teh uber ZOMG u have to take them to win!!!, like Plague marines and Eldrad.

To me, if a Codex has very few different competative builds possible in it, then it's not a top-tier competative army, regardless of how good the competative build is.

my 2 pence...

Lord Malorne
20-07-2009, 08:27
Black Templars easily, I am currently playing orks and they are very effective, though I rate my BT's higher.

Shadow Lord
20-07-2009, 09:57
I think Eldaran nails this thingy right on the head. An army that can only rely on 2 units to make the difference (like Chaos) isn't a solid army. Is it competitive and annoying to play...ofcourse it is, but it is soooo limited. Armies like Orcs and SM have the advantage that an army-general can put down all kinds of different lists and still hand over your ass at the end of the battle. The only real difficulty for such a general is to decide which list to take, as almost all his choices are worth they points...unlike other Codeci...so for me:
* Orcs
* SM
* Eldar
* CSM

Fixer
20-07-2009, 10:10
Eldar, Orks, Chaos in that order for top 3.
Imperial Guard I'm not sure of. I haven't played against them enough to make definitive decision but so far they seem to be well balanced with my marines. So I'd say that they and marines are tied for 4th place. After them Daemons. A powerful army but extremely random.

Max Jet
20-07-2009, 11:00
Yes I am.

And yes I have.
My Dreadnoughts routinely kill more of my men than the enemy's.
I still take them, because I care little for competitive games, but they're still terrible choices in that environment.

The other argument is "wrong" (which I never said), because you claim the Terminators are cheaper... yes they are, but with worse equipment also, offsetting the cheaper points cost.

I am still waiting for you to say something about the cheap, yet excellent basic troops, the HQs, the Lash of submission, the cheap 14 14 14 Vehicle, cheaper predators and the greater amount of equipment. If you want to prove that I am wrong all over, then do it right and yes, having a possibility to throw away certain equipment, thus making a unit cheaper DOES make them better as you can use them for a certain taks without waisting points on equipment you will rarely use.
So? Chaos are not the top choice? Good Dreadnoughts are not worth the points but the rest? Try to defend your army.

Bloodknight
20-07-2009, 11:16
Well, he basically just refuted your comment on Terminators (which with comparable equipment cost the same as loyalist ones) and the Dreadnought. I don't get why you recommend it for small point games. There the fire frenzy is going to have worse consequences for your own army - I field the CD relatively often and have never had it fire frenzy at the opponent; TLOS usually doesn't allow that, and Chaos can't drop the Dread in like SM. Are you sure you're playing it right? Dreads fire at own troops first (they tend to be closer) and will turn around if they're in front of your troops. There is a reason why people usually field CC dreads or basically underarm them so they don't hurt as much. Also, in small point games (assuming you have a shooty dread) his rage roll will hurt a lot when it leaves cover for no reason at all, just to get blown up.
The CSM Land Raider is much worse than the Imperial version, that's why it is cheaper. No machine spirit and smaller carrying capacity.


cheaper predators

Not really. The Predator with AC and HBs costs 15 points more than the Imperial counterpart, and the Tri-Las costs the same. AC-Las costs 10 points more. Las/HB is 5 points cheaper. Big deal.

The CSM codex sure is strong (personally, I see it at a point slightly behind the Orks in a competitive build) and has some of the best troops in the game (FA sucks, though, and Elites are mostly less useful than just more troops), but you just chose weak arguments for its strength. You might as well have said that Spawn bought from the army list were useful.

eldaran
20-07-2009, 12:03
I think Eldaran nails this thingy right on the head. An army that can only rely on 2 units to make the difference (like Chaos) isn't a solid army. Is it competitive and annoying to play...ofcourse it is, but it is soooo limited. Armies like Orcs and SM have the advantage that an army-general can put down all kinds of different lists and still hand over your ass at the end of the battle. The only real difficulty for such a general is to decide which list to take, as almost all his choices are worth they points...unlike other Codeci...so for me:
* Orcs
* SM
* Eldar
* CSM

Thanks, i like nailing things on the head (as long as it's not my head...:D)

However, i would disagree with you about your list (unless ur talking about builds, not armies, because then i agree with you) In terms of Competative armies, Eldar and CSM are in the middle; probably the bottom bit of the middle tier, since again, they have good builds, but not loads of them.

Gaargod
20-07-2009, 12:23
Tyranids, while i love em, have about 1 competitive build (nidzilla + without number gaunts) and one average build (stealer shock).

Chaos do lash princes(or lash sorcs), plague marines and oblis very well. They do have other good choices mind - chosen with meltas can work, dakka dakka preds aren't bad, possessed landraiders are pretty good. Its just they are all outshined by the best 3.

Eldar really need to be mech or jetbiking. Doing so they are powerful, otherwise a bit lacking.


However, other armies can have lots of good builds. Obviously orcs come top in this, but SM are pretty good and i'm actually being quite impressed with IG for their variety and powerful builds.

Bran Dawri
20-07-2009, 12:50
Top three seems to be pretty consensus of orks, CSM and eldar.

Though in a tourney setting I've yet to lose to orks or CSM with my Wolves, and have yet to play vs eldar.

Also, Wolves right now are slightly better than regular SM, methinks.

sydbridges
20-07-2009, 13:37
Good Dreadnoughts are not worth the points but the rest? Try to defend your army.

I'm not sure I'd use the word 'good' to describe chaos dreadnaughts, what with my experience lending me to believe that fire frenzy on your own troops is but an inevitable result of having one on the team, although I do find them 'fun.' Since he's asking about competitive armies, talking about Chaos Dreadnaughts belongs in this conversation like talking about an 180 gretchin and a warboss belongs.

That said, Chaos has at least one very powerful build with the dual lash prince, 9 oblits, and plague marines for troops build, and the variations on that. Just don't expect people to describe facing that as 'enjoyable', 'fun', or 'sportsmanlike.'

Oh, and I'm voting orks. You have to really go out of your way to make a bad ork army, and if you powergame an ork army, you can make some very, very potent builds.

R3pr3ssor
20-07-2009, 15:45
I think that chaos can do lots of competitive lists, using any of the special troops choices (except maybe noise marines, they are personally a bit underpowerd imo).

Creeping Dementia
20-07-2009, 16:05
I also put down Orks, but just because they have the most flexable builds that can still be competitive. I do really well with my Tau, and the Sisters I started playing with a little bit ago are showing real promise, but as an army as a whole, circumstance and players aside, Orks in general are a bit better.

I think that even though Orks are far and away leading this poll, it doesn't mean they are vastly overpowered. I think many of the rest of the armies are very well balanced toward each other, Orks just have a slight edge in general that everyone recognises. I've not lost to an Ork army for a while (ever since I reduced my anti-MeQ and added a few more templates and large blasts), I usually draw, but I still recognise that they are tougher and have more viable units than most other armies.

AFnord
20-07-2009, 16:07
Out of all the chaos troops, only one is sub-par, and that is noise marines, and one is ok, and that is Thousand Sons. The rest are really solid troops.

Orks are indeed blessed with some really good units. Only three entries in the entire codex are sub-par, and those are wierdboyz (almost a decent choice, at least it's cheap), tankbustas, and flash gitz. All of the other options are viable, altough it's not true that you can simply throw some random choice together and expect a good army. While most choices are good, far from all work well together.

Docnoxin
20-07-2009, 16:14
I am going to have to say with the different competitive builds available to Orks they take the cake. They have 3 different list types that all do very well.

incarna
20-07-2009, 16:47
I voted guard. My analysis of the codex leads me to believe they will be the new king of the hill for a while.

Iíve never had much trouble with even a power Ork list (though admittedly, I have yet to face two nob biker squads) and the games Iíve played against them have resulted in me steamrolling my ork opponent, me winning by a narrow margin, me loosing by a narrow margin.

TheDarkDuke
20-07-2009, 16:57
I picked Ork but will say other armies can have stronger builds. The reasoning as mentioned by a few others is, it is very hard to not make a bad Ork army. Ork armies that you theme/take the simple or blinged out units all have very good functions. Its not that the codex is overpowered by any means, it is actually the best codex or army book GW have released to date with just amazing harmony of balance within it.

I will argue that CSM and Eldar can built stronger builds then Ork (simply due to the "broken Ork biker nobs") can be completely neutralized by both of those armies using the common stronger builds. SM are hit and miss, and really depends more then most armies as to what they are facing. IG are a nice balance as well, and its hard to tell just where they sit as they are still quite new, and I think the lack of much "brokenz" talk shows they are quite balanced as well.

Kahadras
20-07-2009, 17:13
I'd have to say Orks. Since 5th ed took off I've never really been able to beat them. My main problem is the sheer amount of stuff they can put down on the table. My mate runs a pretty balanced list but he can put down large shoota mobs, truck mobs, bikes, buggies, looted wagons, Dreads, Kans and still have enough points to invest in a couple of the more specialist Ork infantry along with a couple of Mekboys with KFF to keep the boys safe when they're out in the open.

The great thing about the Orks is the fact they can get tons of firepower into their army and still present a nasty prospect in hand to hand combat. Quite often I've found myself outshot by Orks only to get into combat and been outmatched there as well. The only bright spot I've found is in kill points which helps to level the playing field.

Kahadras

Ixquic
20-07-2009, 17:36
I think Guard is most competitive right now with the ability to land lots of templates, ignore cover saves (that is big in 5th) and have squads count as 1 KP or multiple depending on the mission. The order system and commissars also make them one of the hardest armies to break.

Askari
20-07-2009, 18:49
I am still waiting for you to say something about the cheap, yet excellent basic troops, the HQs, the Lash of submission, the cheap 14 14 14 Vehicle, cheaper predators and the greater amount of equipment. If you want to prove that I am wrong all over, then do it right and yes, having a possibility to throw away certain equipment, thus making a unit cheaper DOES make them better as you can use them for a certain taks without waisting points on equipment you will rarely use.
So? Chaos are not the top choice? Good Dreadnoughts are not worth the points but the rest? Try to defend your army.

Wow, way to miss what I said.

Infact I myself stated, in my original reply to this thread that Chaos are one of the most powerful builds.

Here;


....

Chaos Space Marines, with their Plague Marine/Obliterator spam.
....

They'd be my top 5 competitive lists.

But the reasons you stated were what I found confusing. The Dreadnoughts are universally seen as rubbish. And even being cheaper, Chaos Terminators are seen as worse than their SM equivalents (both types). The Land Raider isn't cheap, especially since anyone worth their salt takes Daemonic Possession.

PS. Thank you Bloodknight, for having pointed out what I just spent 5 minutes writing above, a few hours before I did it.

Vedar
20-07-2009, 19:52
Chaos Space Marines definately

Terminators for the 3/4th the price they used to have in Space Marine 4th edition. Cheaper Land Raiders, cheaper Predators, cheaper dreadnoughts compared to an allready powerfull army. Double Lash Princes, basic marines plus 1 LD minus 2 points in a game, that needs good troops and additional tooling options.
And the high ranking lists say that I am right.
Followed by Orks (though I am surprised as they tend to get problems when faced with a tank heavy force.. I mean their weakness is so obvious! OO)
But I think Orks deserved it. So many years with an underpowered codex. Other than Chaos they deserve it.

"Terminators for the 3/4th the price they used to have in Space Marine 4th edition" And guess what, they are still not used very much and don't have the Space marine "and they shall know no fear" or Power fist.

"Cheaper Land Raiders" Give me a crusader with power of the machine spirit and we will call it an even trade.

"cheaper Predators" If only I could have power of the machine spirit.

"cheaper dreadnoughts" Again trade you for ones that don't shoot your own troops or charge at things randomly.

I'm not saying Chaos is weak, but you are picking on units most people don't even use. When was the last time you saw a 3 Chaos Dread list that smoked all other lists?

Oh... and my vote goes for Orks. How much for the basic ork? Really?

Bloodknight
20-07-2009, 20:28
I'm not saying Chaos is weak, but you are picking on units most people don't even use. When was the last time you saw a 3 Chaos Dread list that smoked all other lists?

That list is far more likely to smoke itself unless they're all CC dreads. I am personally a bit miffed that CSM lost mutated hull and SM get the Ironclad instead which would also make a better CSM dread due to the TL-heavy flamers option. I always hate it when the dreadnought fire-frenzies with a single stupid boltgun because you can't upgrade both to heavy flamers for a proper CC machine.

Warlord Nazgred
20-07-2009, 20:54
Alot of people are saying orks, CSM and eldar or IG is anybody else realising a pattern

Creeping Dementia
20-07-2009, 21:12
Well if this was a "what army do you play and can it be competitive" poll then the results would be entirely different. The results aren't suprising, most people that have been playing for a while could spout off which armies are the most solid.

Neither of my armies are anywhere near the top in the poll (Tau, Sisters), but I'm able to compete very well. They just aren't as user friendly as the armies we're seeing at the top here. You've just got to be careful when reading poll results like this and realize what they actually mean. We're dealing in generalities and not with specific builds, or more importantly, specific players.