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Blaklabel
20-07-2009, 03:21
I'm wanting to start Orcs and Goblins and use almost only Gobbos. (Maybe 1 unit of Black Orcs) Anyway, all the lsits I see are just like, Skaven Hordes. Just tons of Night Goblins and then some Shamans. I was really wondering. Is a more mobile army doable with Goblins? Like lots of wolf riders. I like magic, but can I make my goblin army very fast and mobile and still not do horrible against most armies? (Not counting Vamps and Deamons of course :mad::mad:) I run Skaven already so I don't want to do straight up horde. So any suggestions on how to run a non horde gobbo army?

Urgat
20-07-2009, 03:43
I'm wanting to start Orcs and Goblins and use almost only Gobbos. (Maybe 1 unit of Black Orcs) Anyway, all the lsits I see are just like, Skaven Hordes. Just tons of Night Goblins and then some Shamans. I was really wondering. Is a more mobile army doable with Goblins? Like lots of wolf riders. I like magic, but can I make my goblin army very fast and mobile and still now do horrible against most armies? (Not counting Vamps and Deamons of course :mad::mad:) I run Skaven already so I don't want to do straight up horde. So any suggestions on how to run a non horde gobbo army?

Yeah, you can, somewhat. I do a mixed bag all gob army, but what I'd do if I didn't want a horde gob army (no idea if that would be efficient though):
Let's say you're aiming at 2000 points.
First of all, charriot spam: all characters on a chariot. So no night gob shaman obviously, only common ones, and a common gob lord (better Ld anyway). You fill up yor special slots to the max: 1 or two hopper units (7 hoppers at least, so you max up attacks during melee), two spearchukkas at least, and the rest you fill up with charriots. Then you max out the rares. A giant and a fat unit of trolls that run after your warboss' charriot, for instance. Then for core, take four light cav units (two spider rider units, two wolfrider units). Then you fill up the rest with units of gobs. Most expensive option being, obviously, night gobs with netters. You can also throw in a big unit of wolfriders with spears, that's one of the rare cavalry units where you can more or less afford to buy a rank. I have one like that, but I don't rate it very high, to be honest. Not that it has seen much action anyway.
That's all I can think of, since I tend to go the opposite way (lots of cheap units). Btw, I can't tell for demons, haven't much experience with them, but I do rather well against VC ;) (half half, I'd say, but I do half half against about everybody save bretonians, I always do well aginst brets, can't really understand why).

Drakcore Bloodtear
20-07-2009, 15:42
I can say well done for starting an all gobbo army they are very worth while as for the Blorcs don't I did once and they were the most targetted unit in the game and they did nothing but get shot

As for a goblin elite army (I can't blieve I just said that) try going heavy on squigs, war machine, chariots, cav and monsters

Now an army like that will be very fast bu with a strong defense behind it, there is a problem though goblin armys don't tend to be the best fighters so a unit of goblins would help and if there just small ones to herass the enemy it's fine (heck fill them full of fanatics if you want) and just watch them fly

Blaklabel
21-07-2009, 14:11
I can say well done for starting an all gobbo army they are very worth while as for the Blorcs don't I did once and they were the most targetted unit in the game and they did nothing but get shot

As for a goblin elite army (I can't believe I just said that) try going heavy on squigs, war machine, chariots, cav and monsters

Now an army like that will be very fast bu with a strong defense behind it, there is a problem though goblin armys don't tend to be the best fighters so a unit of goblins would help and if there just small ones to harass the enemy it's fine (heck fill them full of fanatics if you want) and just watch them fly

Thanks for the feedback. I'm thinking I'll only take some footsloggin Gobbos for transporting Fanatics. For the most part, I really love the Goblin Wolf riders now that I've got one painted, so I might be using them a lot, but the Spiders are totally worth it as well, so I'm thinking my list will be cavalry heavy. Maybe 2 or 3 wolf units and 1 or 2 spider units then some Night Goblins to as I said, transfer fanatics. I doubt I'll have much shooting, maybe just a little, but I'll definitely run some sweet Shaman. Oh and chariots galore!

I have a second question now that I've looked at the wolf riders enough. Is it worth it to upgrade them with Shields? Since I'm thinking I'll run spears for Str 4 they'll only get a 5+ save as fast cav. If I can have them at a 4+ save I'd like it better since they won't have bows anyway. Or are the other free reform and feign flights rules actually worth it? And after that question are the spears worth it? Is it worth sacrificing a 3+ save in CC for Str 4? They'd have more staying power with a 3+ but with spears they have a better chance of breaking you first round.

So if you guys could share your experiences and help me reach a decision that'd be great!

Fake Edit: I just realized that I sold my Ork army because I didn't want to lug around 500 models with me running Skaven...and now I'm getting Goblins...heh.........ugh.

Urgat
21-07-2009, 14:51
Dunno, my wolves never do anything in melee, so it's been a long time since I've given them spears or shields, I give them bows, so they can still play their role (redirection, march blocking, baiting/running away from charges, etc), while doing some casualties, and taking none in return. Waaaay too many nasty infantry these days to use wol riders as shock troops, imho. Anyway, for the spears, it's not an issue, since you don't get the additional shield+hand weapon save bonus while mounted, so you can't have a 3+ save either way.

Grimgormx
21-07-2009, 23:08
dont forget netters, I use some in a unit with shield and Hand weapons, this way, gobos sudenly become a nice unit, reduce enemy strenght, then with shield and HW they will save with 5+ most of the times against 4 or less force troops, laught of those puny DE lancers when they try to hurt you with st 2, you will have some chance to survive against those pesky lizards.

Add some hitting power with a NG hero with 2 hands weapon and some magic things. ad a black orc and sudenly you have a nice trop that will behave most of the time, with ld 8, try to made a wide front (7 at least) and if you add the banner (with the BO as a BSB and mounted in a boar so he gets more armour save) that gives you a dispel dice for each rank, ad some fanatics too, and there it is a elite goblin unit.

Urgat
22-07-2009, 07:56
Then roll a 1 on your netters during that critical fight against the enemies deathstar :p

Chaos Undecided
22-07-2009, 11:29
Seem to remember seeing such an army feature in White Dwarf a few years back all large units of Wolf Riders backed up by chariots, this would have been under a previous edition of the Warhammer rules though which may have favoured such a set up better (my memory of the rules differences is somewhat hazy :p). These days it seems conventional "wisdom" tends to frown on oversized cavalry units and medium cavalry units in general. It would make for an interesting looking army at least, have to say I've contemplated doing a similar force based around marauder horsemen in more than one occassion just dont have the money.

If you want to do it then go for it in my opinion just cant guarantee the results will be that successful on the board.

Blaklabel
22-07-2009, 13:07
Seem to remember seeing such an army feature in White Dwarf a few years back all large units of Wolf Riders backed up by chariots, this would have been under a previous edition of the Warhammer rules though which may have favoured such a set up better (my memory of the rules differences is somewhat hazy :p). These days it seems conventional "wisdom" tends to frown on oversized cavalry units and medium cavalry units in general. It would make for an interesting looking army at least, have to say I've contemplated doing a similar force based around marauder horsemen in more than one occassion just dont have the money.

If you want to do it then go for it in my opinion just cant guarantee the results will be that successful on the board.

First of all, yeah my Calv units aint going past Box size. So units of 10.
But I don't really play to win with my Skaven, it's more like. Play to watch the hilarity. So I'm atleast hoping my opponent at least has fun against my armies. Thus why I play kill yourself Skaven and now want Calvary Goblins...for the fun factor.
So yeah, success on the board aint my goal, a good looking and fun army is. I was just wondering on the effectiveness of the Light Calv vs. Giving them shields because I want to be viable in the game and not just get steamrolled, cause then it's not fun for me at all.

Chaos Undecided
22-07-2009, 15:10
It would probably be a good idea then to take a mixture of the two in my opinion if you are going for a "pure" wolf rider force, some larger shield equipped units to hit the enemy from the front with small light cavalry units to get into the flanks and around the rear of enemy units as well as running off to go wizard/war machine hunting. Key to winning will probably be getting off those combined charges as the "anvil" wolf riders are unlikely to tie up most opponents for more than a turn and you may well quite possibly bounce off of some heavier targets so for these you either need to send in multiple chariots or use your speed to try and avoid them until your ready to take them on with overwhelming force. A couple of shamans plus some pump wagons probably wouldnt hurt to give some extra punch either.

Blaklabel
22-07-2009, 15:16
It would probably be a good idea then to take a mixture of the two in my opinion if you are going for a "pure" wolf rider force, some larger shield equipped units to hit the enemy from the front with small light cavalry units to get into the flanks and around the rear of enemy units as well as running off to go wizard/war machine hunting. Key to winning will probably be getting off those combined charges as the "anvil" wolf riders are unlikely to tie up most opponents for more than a turn and you may well quite possibly bounce off of some heavier targets so for these you either need to send in multiple chariots or use your speed to try and avoid them until your ready to take them on with overwhelming force. A couple of shamans plus some pump wagons probably wouldnt hurt to give some extra punch either.

First, totally not doing pure wolves. I like the models and their rules and crap but there are other fast options obviously. But the fact you brought up hardier guys. How would I effectively deal with like Blood Knights or a 20 Strong unit of Chosen.
And secondly are pump wagons worth it? They seem neat and everything, but they any good, and what do you use them mainly for?

Back to the hardier units, I know a guy who plays WoC who runs half his points into his Chosen. Like 1000 pt unit. It never really takes any damage. I've seen him play soo many people at my LGS and even if he looses, the Chosen never take much damage unless he has really bad luck and they flee or something. So as I've also said before I play Skaven as well and I can never do crap to that chosen unit, so trying to run Goblins now, how could I deal with such a buff unit? t4 or 5 units, with 2+ armor and a tzeentch ward save?

Grimgormx
22-07-2009, 15:34
Im playing these last weeks with a list that moves really fast, I have won 6 games an lost 1, we play at 3,000 points, and is more or less like this I dont have my book at hand so I dont remember all the names of the magic objets)

Savage warboss on Wyvern
spiteful shield
the weapon that gives +1 ws +1 s +1 I
the thing that gives him killing blow
and that other thing that gives him Ward save 5+

Savage Sahaman lvl 4 on boar
with the staff that if hits the enemy has to take LD test (he has killed a lot of monsters with it)
the amulet that mades monsters, beast, steeds hit him only with 6
warpaint +2 to cast
boots that give him +1 attack

2 orc shamans lvl 2 1 in boar, 1 on foot, both with power stone and dispel scroll

1 savage orc hero with porkstika and boar

1 black orc bsb with the baner that lets you charge 1d6 extra inches, on boar

2 units wolf riders with music, spears and bows

2 units of spider riders with music, spears and bows

25 ng with shoort bows, 3 fanatics, netters, full comand

2 spear chukas w/ bully

1 rock lobba w/ bully

9 savage orc Big ones on boars, full comand magic banner that gaves 1 extra attack to riders 1 turn.

2 orc chariots

2 pump wagons

2 giants

NG in a spread formation in the center (so your fanatics can hit more things) usually 15 front line

wolf, giants and spiders on flanks

savage boar boys in front of the unit you want to destroy.

wyvern, just deppends in what you wanna hit.

Sometimes in the first turn (if my enemy started) Im able to charge the enemy with the general wagh, with the wyvern (just to get behind my enemy line, and with the boars (this unit has the savage shaman, bo bsb, and savage hero in a 6 x 2 formation) against 1 of the most powerful units I can see in my enemy formation.

move your whole line, spiders and wolf to redirec charges, chariots and pump wagons to set the trap (remember that pump wagons can hit anything 360 around)

If you got a Wagh spell you are lucky and you have a loot of chances of winning, but you wont be able to use spear chukas and RL, if yopu didnt get it, then use them.

rtunian
22-07-2009, 15:42
@blaklabel

probably best to just avoid/redirect a unit like that. you're best bet for fighting a unit like that, if you are interested in fighting it, is probably 4-5 river trolls. minus 1 to be hit, good toughness, regeneration, and vomit attacks ignore armor, so you only have a ward save to contend with. also you should be spamming that unit with magic missiles that ignore armor saves. it wouldn't hurt you to send a fanatic or two their way either. just for a little added damage... they aren't superb against a 2+ as, turning it into a 5+ with their modifier, but it'll still probably kill one or two.

against huge deathstar units like that, sometimes the goal is to reduce it to half strength, and not to kill it entirely. in that light, a kill here or there over the course of the game could add up to hundreds of vp

insofar as the usefulness of pump wagons, they are perfect for defending your rear while you march across the board, since they can charge in any direction. put them behind your line to protect it from the fliers who like to sneak behind and rear charge. if that doesn't happen, then on the turn before you expect to be charged, swing them out from the back to the side so they are in position to counter-charge.

while pump wagons 2d6 impact hits are impressive, they are likely to be inflicted upon your own units if you send the wagons out in front. what tends to happen is you want it to charge a juicy unit, and then you roll a 4 for movement, so it sits right out in front of that juicy unit, which charges it, breaks it, and makes it flee right back into your line, where it bashes into your own units causing many deaths, and possibly a panic wave


edit:
@grimgormx
how exactly are you getting a savage warboss on wyvern behind the enemy line for rear charging? considering you have to charge anything w/in 20", and you have to pursue fleeing units... even if there was some small unit behind the enemy main line for you to charge, you would not be in position to rear charge their line for 3 turns (the turn you charge, and assuming you win, the next turn to turn around assuming you don't have to charge something else now, and then on the third turn you can charge the rear of the line)

Urgat
22-07-2009, 16:52
I suppose he's flying backwards...

Drakcore Bloodtear
22-07-2009, 16:56
Well I would have a couple of unit's of wolf riders with the 4+ save because well there almost the best you got when it comes to armour and I think yes have some shamans but a gobbo army that's magic heavy will not be as good as some of the others first you need a boss to boost LD and there pulckly little fighters in there own right

As for the Deathstar either ignore it, you have a cav army and those choson wont catch up with them or if that unit takes up the majority of the army throw everthing at it Giants, trolls, fanatics, squigs and to finish them off a big unit of netted NG to win Combat res