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matticusmaximus
20-07-2009, 07:20
Hello everyone, I posted a friendly 2k list on here a few pages back, and now I'm back with some refinements. I'm basing this army on the very popular TVI/Reman Legions tactics articles over at warhammer-empire. Essentially the concept is to form a solid, unbroken infantry battle line that either advances towards the enemy or receives their charge, defeating the enemy with strong static CR.

-General of the Empire w/ Sword of Power, Holy Relic, Enchanted Shield, full plate armor, barded warhorse: 213

-Captain of the Empire Battle Standard Bearer w/ full plate armor, barded warhorse, Griffon Standard: 152

-Warrior Priest w/ Armor of Meteoric Iron, great weapon: 119

-Battle Wizard w/ Rod of Power: 95

-24 Spearmen w/ shields, full command: 169
-Detachment: 9 Free Company: 45
-Detachment: 6 Archers: 48

-24 Swordsmen w/ full command, War Banner: 194
-Detachment: 9 Free Company: 45
-Detachment: 6 Archers: 48

-19 Greatswords w/ full command: 220
-Detachment: 9 Halberdiers: 45
-Detachment: 6 Archers: 48

-5 Knights w/ musician: 123

-5 Knights w/ musician: 123

-Great Cannon: 100

-Great Cannon: 100

-5 Pistoliers w/ musician, Outrider, repeater pistol: 114

The essential strategy, once again, is to form a solid infantry battle line and let my static CR win the day. The knights are there for flank charges when extra punch is needed, the cannons are to take out big scary stuff, and the pistoliers are there to run around and do their fast cav thing. The General and BSB are at the heart of the battle line, keeping the army at Ld 9 w/ rerolls for break tests. These guys need to stay alive, so I've given the General a 0+ armor save :D and a 4 + ward, and the BSB a 2+ armor save. The Griffon Banner will create some serious problems for anyone hoping to break that spearmen block. The Warrior Priest will deploy with the Greatswords, giving them hatred to reroll those precious S5 attacks, as well as dishing out a little S6 punishment himself. I don't plan on getting much, if any magic off, with the only magic in the army being a bare-minimum defensive setup for my mage.

The only thing I can think of to tweak is to maybe swap out the Greatswords for a block of 24 swordsmen, drop the War Banner from the other swordsmen unit, and use the points to buy a Mortar.

Thanks in advance for the advice. I'm out to prove that in a world of beardy magic and overpowered characters, footsloggers with static CR can still carry the day :p

KHolbourn
20-07-2009, 07:46
I like it :) Very similar to the lists I run (see my thread http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=205106).

though I'd make a few small changes:-

Change the spearmen to swordsmen. The WS4 makes a world of difference in not getting hit against the average WS4 troops you'll meet in non-chaos armies. I've used spearmen a few times and they always get slaughtered beyond their static CR.

Possibly drop one or 2 archer detachments for handgun detachments. Archers screen but don't actually kill anything. Handgunners can whittle down some troops. (If not maybe trade a cannon for a Hellblaster/Hellstorm that can whittle down enemy blocks).

I'd trade out the enchanted shield & fullplate for Dawn armour on the general (you may need to downgrade his sword but he's an Empire general so was never going to kill anything anwyay). This will give him a re-rollable 1+ save and the 4+ ward :)

Maybe ditch that mage. Get a warrior Priest w/Heavy armour, Great weapon for 98 points. You still get the dispel die but get a vaguely competent character with LD 8 and hatred for the third block.

Good luck. I love this style of Empire play.

Caboose123
20-07-2009, 14:21
Caboose is here! And I have to say you've done your homewrok and come up with a great list!



-General of the Empire w/ Sword of Power, Holy Relic, Enchanted Shield, full plate armor, barded warhorse: 213

Dawn Armour may be a good replacement for Enchanted Shield. Sword of Power is an odd choice, his job is to challenge enemy characters so they can't attack your infantry. His 3 attacks will only be handy for killing mages or unit champions; a sword of might could do this just as well?

-Captain of the Empire Battle Standard Bearer w/ full plate armor, barded warhorse, Griffon Standard: 152

A nice standard set-up. Just be sure to keep him alive, T4 W2 and a 2+ save can die easily to an enemy character with a Great Weapon...

-Warrior Priest w/ Armor of Meteoric Iron, great weapon: 119

Van Horstmann's trinket of stat-stealing could do very well either on this guy or the mage below.

-Battle Wizard w/ Rod of Power: 95

Would 2x Dispel Scrolls not be better than the rod? I'd say yes, after all you only need to protect them for 2 turns, by turn 3 you should be in combat or have killed some of their mages.

-24 Spearmen w/ shields, full command: 169
-Detachment: 9 Free Company: 45
-Detachment: 6 Archers: 48

-24 Swordsmen w/ full command, War Banner: 194
-Detachment: 9 Free Company: 45
-Detachment: 6 Archers: 48

I agree that archers can't hurt anything, i assume their only in because of the "move and fire". Handgunners or Crossbows would get left behind and may have trouble getting LoS (with such a wide battle line). Another disadvantage is the tactical wheel, having units of skirmishers so close to your battle line means your opponent can use them to wheel in any direction, a scary thought. My remedy? Ditch both of them and put in a unit of 10 huntsmen, the march blocking will give you some superior maneuvrability and who knows, they may cause some damage! Otherwise these units are fine.

-19 Greatswords w/ full command: 220
-Detachment: 9 Halberdiers: 45
-Detachment: 6 Archers: 48

19 is an odd unit size. I like the coverall size of 14. Rank bonus is minimal for these guys, they need the charge to be effective, and when they do they should be charging in the flank of something already enganged by the swordsmen (This, I feel, is the best way to use them, like knights), with 14 (deployed with a wide frontage for maximum attacks) they could also act as a speedbump using Ld8 Stubborn with re-rolls for a BSB to hold something up. I don't like the idea of getting rank bonus with Greatswords...

-5 Knights w/ musician: 123

-5 Knights w/ musician: 123

If they are going to be used for flank charges and not just redirecting, then I would suggest a Preceptor, he can issue a challenge which would reduce the amount of attacks going to the weak swordsmen, and with a 2+ save can absorb some damage.

-Great Cannon: 100

-Great Cannon: 100

-5 Pistoliers w/ musician, Outrider, repeater pistol: 114

These all seem fine, you could replace a Cannon with a Helblaster (An alternative for dealing with large monsters), but with its limited range it may not be a good choice.

The essential strategy, once again, is to form a solid infantry battle line and let my static CR win the day. The knights are there for flank charges when extra punch is needed, the cannons are to take out big scary stuff, and the pistoliers are there to run around and do their fast cav thing. The General and BSB are at the heart of the battle line, keeping the army at Ld 9 w/ rerolls for break tests. These guys need to stay alive, so I've given the General a 0+ armor save :D and a 4 + ward, and the BSB a 2+ armor save. The Griffon Banner will create some serious problems for anyone hoping to break that spearmen block. The Warrior Priest will deploy with the Greatswords, giving them hatred to reroll those precious S5 attacks, as well as dishing out a little S6 punishment himself. I don't plan on getting much, if any magic off, with the only magic in the army being a bare-minimum defensive setup for my mage.

Simple plans are often the best, be careful for flyers/scouts getting behind your lines, if they can get some static combat resolution you could have trouble (A Helblaster or more likely some crossbowmen would be best for dealing with them... or pistoliers.). You may also have trouble against those insanely strong units like Chaos Chosen, who never rely on ranks anyway, but raw killing power, starting with +6 combat resolution is wasted if they kill 7 guys!

The only thing I can think of to tweak is to maybe swap out the Greatswords for a block of 24 swordsmen, drop the War Banner from the other swordsmen unit, and use the points to buy a Mortar.

I don't really think this is needed. I like the Greatswords as a reliable unit, and a hammer unit. The Mortar would only really be handy against hordes, and this army should do well against them anyway.

Thanks in advance for the advice. I'm out to prove that in a world of beardy magic and overpowered characters, footsloggers with static CR can still carry the day :p

I really hope thats true! :p

This really is a nice list, the only things I'd change are preferences on my part:
-Smaller unit of Greatswords
-Tweak magic items on Characters (In Particular the Wizard guy, Scroll Caddys FTW!)
-Unit Champions for the knights
-Change archers to huntsmen

Good luck and all that...

Tylorr
20-07-2009, 15:58
Caboose has you pretty much covered in the line of changes and I'll have to agree with him here. Your knights could definatly use a champ and the archers should be turned into huntsmen or at least handgunners (WoC worst enemy ;) And as stated above to find the points for said changes I would just drop the Greatswords to a smaller unit.

Jind_Singh
20-07-2009, 16:40
thats a nice list - and as for spears...well I dont know if they are that bad, afterall the last 3 games have seen my night goblin spears work many, many wonders! The extra attacks are handy as spearmen are not the most resliant of troops!
My only quibble would be to take the archers out and make them into hunstman (as mentioned above) so you have a great scout unit, or to trade bows for either handgunners or crossbows.
Handgunners are just to damn good to be ignored as they have a hefty -2 to the armour save!!
I am guessing the unit of 24, 24, 19 are chosen as the 3 main characters will join them to make it 25, 25, 20???
And the greatswords - you plan to secure your centre or a flank? if they are a flank unit you could even reduce their numbers as then they wont need ranks as such, just a high enough unit strength.
And finally the free company - I've never been a fan as they die by people just looking at them in a mean way! no armour save is orrible - those buggers were getting their asses handed back to them on silver platters - and that was by lowlife goblins! What if your up against a better unit?! I'd trade them for state troops (same points, better armour save!)
But it's a great list, it's hpw I collected my force, love it!

PS - what province do these brave men hail from? Any particular theme/story?

matticusmaximus
20-07-2009, 18:05
D'oh! I just realized that the General and BSB, being on cavalry bases, will displace two guys, not the usual one. Therefore, I've shaved down the infantry units to appropriate size to keep even blocks of 5 wide (unless we want a very "special" one of the Emperor's finest to be in his own rank)

I made some of the changes you guys suggested. The big change in this list was dropping the mage all together for another warrior priest, this one with Van Horstmann's Speculum. The idea here is to place him in the BSB's unit, further protecting that Griffon banner from having any harm come its way.

Here's the revised list:

-General w/ Dawn Armor, Holy Relic, Sword of Might, barded warhorse, shield: 199

-Captain BSB w/ barded horse, full plate armor, Griffon Standard: 152

-Warrior Priest w/ Armor of Meteoric Iron, great weapon: 119

-Warrior Priest w/ heavy armor, Van Horstmann's Speculum, Enchanted Shield: 139

-23 Swordsmen w/ full command, War Banner: 188
-Detachment: 5 Handgunners: 40
-Detachment: 9 Free Company: 45

-22 Swordsmen w/ full command: 157
-Detachment: 5 Handgunners: 40
-Detachment: 9 Free Company: 45

-14 Greatswords w/ full command: 170
-Detachment: 5 Handgunners: 40
-Detachment: 5 Handgunners: 40

-5 Knights: 115

-5 Knights: 115

-Great Cannon: 100

-Great Cannon: 100

-5 Pistoliers w/ musician, Outrider, repeater pistol: 114

-8 Huntsmen: 80

Like I mentioned earlier, I'm going to pair up the new warrior priest with the BSB (mounted BSB + warrior priest + 22 swordsmen = nice even 5x5 block), in order to accept challenges to protect the BSB, and maybe even win a few with VHS!

The only thing I'm worried about is maybe getting caught with my pants down for magic defense... That's the way she goes, I suppose.

As for a theme, I definitely want to be one of the northern provinces; Ostland, Ostermark, or Nordland. I like the idea of grizzled northerners fighting Chaos like it's no big deal.

I like Ostermark's colors in particular, the red/yellow would be a nice contrast from the black/brown/grey of my Skaven.

Jind_Singh
20-07-2009, 18:49
Sounds great and looks great!!!!
My boys are from down south, Averland, as the Blackfire pass is there - and it's their job to gaurd it! This is because I also have a greenskin horde, and my all time WFB love is Empire v's O & G!!!
Can't get more classic than that!