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mdiscala
21-07-2009, 15:56
How would you guys kit out and use a BSB in a WOC army? Right now I'm thinking of just on foot in a unit of Chaos Warriors but I think it would be cool to mount him on one of the mark specific mounts for the coolness factor. Nurgle Palanquin battle standard in a unit of Warriors?

Witchblade
21-07-2009, 17:11
1. On disc with stubborn banner for super mobility, war machine hunting and terror bombing.

2. On juggernaut for a killer that brings CR, perhaps in a unit of khornate horsemen with FC.

3. On daemonic steed for fear immunity and mobility.

4. In chariot as a solo juggernaut substitute.

5. On barded steed for protection and mobility.

6. On slaaneshi steed or palanquin for fluff's sake.

7. On foot for... no, wait, there's no reason to ever field a chaos exalted or lord on foot.

xsamx
21-07-2009, 18:00
I dont see the point in putting him on a disc either really, as the point of the standard bearer (usually) is for CR and troop support, whilst disc riders are usually way out ahead of the main force killing war machines etc.

I've just converted one using the knights kit,

he has a flail for dishing out damage and a 1+ save, same equip as a generic knight. So he's cheap and can take a magic banner if needed, i will personally either field him in a unit of knights for the CR + damage bonus + whatever standard i take. OR ill field him in a block of warriors, but his steed will still provide extra protection and mobility. I must be honest though, i have not used this guy yet, just felt obliged to convert one as im sure he will see use at some point!!

sulla
21-07-2009, 19:00
7. On foot for... no, wait, there's no reason to ever field a chaos exalted or lord on foot.Chariot smashing, HA! Oh, wait, you can just give a mounted guy a flail... I guess there really is no reason to ever play a chaos fighter on foot. ;):evilgrin:

We need to play this game with a lot more buildings...

Avian
21-07-2009, 19:04
I use a Disc-riding BSB with the Sword of Might and shield. So far I've been also using the Golden Eye, but now I'm leaning more towards the Bronze Armour and Amulet of Protection.

It's been one of my best characters, the static CR of the banner is quite handy and his mobility lets you place him where the re-roll of break tests would be most effective.

decker_cky
21-07-2009, 19:06
I dont see the point in putting him on a disc either really, as the point of the standard bearer (usually) is for CR and troop support, whilst disc riders are usually way out ahead of the main force killing war machines etc.

This one is definitely for providing stubborn though. The disc gives you a 50mm base (slightly bigger radius) and allows him to get where he needs to while dodging behind units. He can still jump into combat and provide the banner bonus, but the stubborn is why he's there.

edit: I think having two, one with the golden eye and one with the armour that provides 4+ ward saves against mundane attacks are good setups for the disc riders.

mdiscala
21-07-2009, 19:15
Im thinking a nurgle palanquin at this point with stubborn banner. Just so I can have a nurgle palanquin really. Oh the conversion possibilities! (I love toy soldiers).

Expensive bugger though. Maybe give him a flail, and a gift if I have the points.

@avian maybe its different in the faq but the rule book says you cant have magic items if you have a magic banner.

Witchblade
21-07-2009, 19:40
Avian didn't mention he had a magic banner.

mdiscala
21-07-2009, 19:47
Ahhh, gotcha.

GenerationTerrorist
21-07-2009, 20:47
I have two options for my Tzeentch WoC army when it comes to BSB....

- Disc, Flail, Book of Secrets, Collar of Khorne
- Barded Steed, Glaive, Bronze Armour, Favour of the Gods and hide him in a unit of Knights with the Blasted Standard

Either works well for me. I never give the BSB a banner though, for some reason!

khagrim
21-07-2009, 20:52
with the changes made concerning BSB in the 7ed i think i'll start using my limited edition chaos bsb ... but im wondering why everyone is talking about giving him a costy magic banner ?!

i will definatly be fielding mine on horse or on a demonic mount/disc/jugger for the extra save and/or mobility and send him straight in hth

mdiscala
21-07-2009, 21:12
Yeah I liked the idea of the stubborn banner till I saw the price tag on it. Maybe no magic banner would be best... Still two units of stubborn chaos warriors (plus what ever else I can fit with in six inches of it) might be worth it.

Cartoon
21-07-2009, 21:19
I like to run a Tzeentch exalted in a chariot along with the blasted standard. The 4+ ward against shooting really helps the old survivability factor. I also run a regular Slaanesh or Khorne chariot alongside the BSB as well.

khagrim
21-07-2009, 22:19
blasted standard for the bsb in a chariot ?! seems like a really costy way to give your hero a 4+ ward against shooting :(

xsamx
21-07-2009, 22:54
I put mine on steed and give him collar of khorne and put him with a unit of knights. This gives the unit MR2 and you can then mark them tz. and give blasted standard to the knight banner bearer to provide unit with the saves vs. shooting and thus protecting your knights unit (andh ero) from pretty much anything until they hit the enemy lines,

Isabel
22-07-2009, 00:18
I sometimes use:
Exalted with flail, shield, barded steed with Banner of Rage in a unit of 3 D. Ogres with GWs screened by hounds.

4 extra str 7 attacks. Pretty much an extra exalted with flail.

Cartoon
22-07-2009, 03:28
blasted standard for the bsb in a chariot ?! seems like a really costy way to give your hero a 4+ ward against shooting :(

It actually ends up working out since I use lots of infantry and have him supporting the line. As he is usually the focus of enemy shooting it really helps him stick around and get into combat. Without it he usually ends up getting blown away. I know the banner would probably work better on a unit of knights or something but I really like my chariot BSB. I have a lot of fun using it.

I was debating on trying something else but the third eye is on my sorc lord and the ward save armor won't help the chariot at all, so it's really the only option I have.

Valtiel
22-07-2009, 06:42
I've been thinking of throwing him in a unit of infantry and equipping him with halberd, chaos steed and Crown of Eternal Conquest. 4 S6 attacks and he has a 2+ armour along with regen. Not bad. The reason why I will give him halberd is because he is most likely going to be in combat for longer than one turn so a halberd is probably better. Maybe. What do you think?

Levett
22-07-2009, 07:59
D-Mount, Flail, Shield, BSB, Warbanner, Armour of Morrslieb.

Stick him in a unit or run around supporting charges and your set.

stonetroll
22-07-2009, 08:11
D-Mount, Flail, Shield, BSB, Warbanner, Armour of Morrslieb.

Stick him in a unit or run around supporting charges and your set.

too bad that's illegal ;)

grhino
22-07-2009, 09:02
Indeed, I think a BSB is best used as any other character, but just upgraded to BSB. Re-rolling the break test usually does it for chaos, and those 25 points are not going to make the difference costs-wise. However, it does provide a cheap +1 static CR.

grhino
22-07-2009, 09:04
too bad that's illegal ;)

Indeed.

Just the upgrade provides a nice re-roll break test and +1 static CR, so every chaos army should have one without a magic banner. Just give him a flail as usual and some magic items if wanted...

Putty
22-07-2009, 09:30
my bsb is always a disk riding champion.

his sole purpose is to hover behind the rank and files of marauders so that they don't run the hell away when they fail their static res.

seems like a waste of points but it pays to have assurance.

EvC
22-07-2009, 14:57
I could use some advice on this too. In my current list I have level 4, level 2 and BSB, who mostly hang out in the same block of Rapturous Nurgle Warriors. My BSB has horsey, Bronze Armour and Biting Blade, but I'm torn between Collar of Khorne to give me a nice bit of MR to the unit (in which case I'll also have to make his mark Tzeentch since it's too good to pass up), or the Blasphemous amulet, which is more fun but I'd like to see it used. Any ideas guys?

Unuhexium
22-07-2009, 15:18
If you put all that power into one group imo Collar of Khorne sounds like the way to go. You want your unit to be (nearly) impossible to kill. I'd also consider swapping MoN for MoT on the warriors since iirc MoT gives more survivability by the end of the day after MoN got nerfed. As I see it MoN decreases the opponents chance to hit at range by 16.66 % and maybe also in melee depending on relative WS. MoT gives your warriors 16.66 % chance to survive everything.

xsamx
22-07-2009, 17:43
also consider giving the unit the blasted standard so along with their new mot they get a 4+ ward vs. shooting

EvC
22-07-2009, 18:39
Interesting, I wanted Mark of Nurgle because I know there's going to be a lot of big shooty armies at the event I'm taking my boys to, but the argument for warriors of Tzeentch is compelling. Looks like it'll be Collar of Khorne for my BSB either way, thanks!

danny-d-b
22-07-2009, 19:36
I'm running mine on chariot with book and halbed and scroll, and just hopeing for 2 on lore of fire with mark of nurgle (if not fire ball is usefull considering all my wizzards are mark of nurgle)

if all goes to plan I get 5 S8 attacks that hit on 2s!

nas
22-07-2009, 22:18
I run my BSB as following;

BSB of Tzeentch
Disc
Armour of mosslieb
Amulet of phylactery
Shield
Flail

4A S7 first round, 2+ save /3+ ward save (against non magic weapons), immunity to poison and buboes.

He has managed to, among other things, hold up a stegadon by himself for three turns before slaying it, wiped out several warmachine groups and killed some hydras etc.

Sure hes a bit costy, but I thinks he's the ultimate flanker/warmacine hunter that Warriors of Chaos oh so badly needs. The only con as I see it are that he's subject for panic/terror. If it wasn't for that...

Kalec
23-07-2009, 02:54
Valkia for normal-sized games, Throgg for my smaller monster list.

Drachen_Jager
23-07-2009, 03:17
As I see it MoN decreases the opponents chance to hit at range by 16.66 % and maybe also in melee depending on relative WS.

This is just flawed math.

If a unit of archers which would normally be rolling 4s to hit your unit is bumped up to 5s it is NOT a 16.66% change. A unit hitting on 1+ being bumped to 2+ is 16.66%.

12 archers hitting on 4s, average 6 hits.

12 archers hitting on 5s, average 4 hits.

The difference between 6 hits and 4 hits is 33.33%, double what you'd quoted (and in my experience the average shooting 'to hit' roll is around 4-5 normally).

Likewise the Close Combat rolling is skewed to a greater degree than you're representing (if of course the WS makes a difference).

Unuhexium
23-07-2009, 08:48
Hmm, good point. I had a feeling something was a bit off, but couldn't put my finger on it. The bit about melee is from personal experience from playing around a bit with MoN. I feel that MoN doesn't affect melee much at all, except making the occational hero hit my warriors on 4+ instead of 3+.

On closer inspection, i think the flaw is that i calculated for individual models, not groups.
Oh well, thanks for pointing it out. =)

EvC
23-07-2009, 15:14
Makes me glad to keep Nurgle on my Warriors, but Tzeentch for the Hero :) MR2 on him will also protect nicely against all the lameass Slanns trying to isnta-gib him with Rule of Burning Iron.

RaZeR
24-07-2009, 10:29
At the moment I'm playing around with a converted BSB... He was meant to be a sorcerer initially, but I realised I'd made him about an inch taller than my other sorcerer, and they're supposed to be brothers, so I turned him into a BSB...
My vague plan for him is to go with additional handweapon + helm of many eyes, on foot. Probably in a unit of chosen with halberds. The idea being I can march them up with impunity and invite charges from enemy infantry. The unit champion challenges, so my BSB doesn't have to (only 1 challenge at a time per combat...), and the BSB hopefully generates +3-4 combat res, with his 5 S5 ASF attacks on rank and file. This should also keep more chosen alive to strike back, further increasing my combat res. If it doesn't quite work, they should at least only lose combat by a few points, and he gives them the re-rolls... I'm toying with some options, like collar of khorne, book of secrets, or word of agony to given even more hits at the start, but then he starts to get expensive...

EvC
24-07-2009, 11:52
Great weapon is the top choice with Helm of Many Eyes :)

Also no Word of Agony on heroes, they can only have 25 points of gifts.

Elazar The Glorified
24-07-2009, 11:55
I use my BSB on foot but that was mostly because I wanted to convert Harry The Hammer to be my BSB. He always takes a flail and laughs when people foolishly charge their Black Coach/Chariot/Other into him and his ADHW bodyguard thinking that'll work out for them ;)
I usually take the Fury of the Blood God gift on him as the Collar is used by a character in my other Warrior block making them both fairly safe from magic so I can focus all my scrolls/dice on protecting the Knights and my other characters!

Skyth
24-07-2009, 15:50
My BSB currently is MoT on a Horse, halberd, book of secrets, and bronze armor in a unit of Tzeentch warriors with the banner of exstacy.

Lord Khabal
24-07-2009, 15:56
My take: BSB on disc + Golden Eye + Ench Shield + Roar + Flail.

Then put him out in the open with a big "SHOOT ME!!" sign! 1+ save / 3+Wsave... Use it to trash chariots / war machines / skirmishers, etc...

Lord Khabal
24-07-2009, 15:57
But if my general is a Lvl 4 I give him the book of secrets instead of enchanted shield (since the gen will have the ench. shield anyway...)

MarcoPollo
24-07-2009, 19:54
I am going to be starting the Khorne Jugger combat res bsb of doom.

Exalted
Jugger (1+ save, MR 1 etc.)
BSB
flail, shield

This is going to be my base template and I can either pump him up with a warbanner, or I can get some magical tricks too.

But for now I am going to keep him cheapish.

Deacon Bane
25-07-2009, 18:28
I have not gone through all the pages, but what are the thoughts about a BSBw/Nurgle, in Nurgle chariot, Halberd and Festering Banner?

GenerationTerrorist
25-07-2009, 21:33
^ Nasty! Deliciously damn nasty!

Deacon Bane
26-07-2009, 13:14
Ya, I thought so. If you hit a full unit, that should be four in base contact? They have to pass toughness tests or die, then D6+1 impact hits, then the CC. It should wipe out most front ranks and give decent CR.

Azethel
26-07-2009, 16:50
Ya, I thought so. If you hit a full unit, that should be four in base contact? They have to pass toughness tests or die, then D6+1 impact hits, then the CC. It should wipe out most front ranks and give decent CR.

The banner works in the magic phase IIRC so it will not actually affect combat res or who can strike back in combat BUT it should nicely thin a unit/take off a rank. Correct me if I am wrong.

I run my BSB on D.steed, warbanner, flail, shield OR
D.steed, sword of striking/sword of might, shield.

Sometimes I will also give him the vomit gift (can't remember the name) as it works wonders on T3 elite infantry/cav.

I know that sword of striking is not used by a lot of people but I tend to always miss my to-hit rolls...seriously, on 4 attacks I will only hit with 1 or none rolling a bunch of 2's. The 2+ to hit is a great equaliser. (He usually has higer WS)

EvC
27-07-2009, 12:11
Here's another Battle Standard I'm gonna try out this week:
Exalted Hero BSB, Mark of Tzeentch
Great Weapon
Book of Secrets
Helm of Many Eyes
Conjoined Homonulous

So he'll be casting one little spell every turn on D6+1+D3, always using the Homonculous as it doesn't matter that he'll be taking a stupidity test in the next turn since he always takes one anyway :D

Will also be VERY useful against the Tomb Kings I'll be up against (Although I didn't consider them when I made it), as it means their prime chariot unit will be completely unable to engage my Chaos Warrior unit.

Grey
27-07-2009, 14:07
Here's another Battle Standard I'm gonna try out this week:
Exalted Hero BSB, Mark of Tzeentch
Great Weapon
Book of Secrets
Helm of Many Eyes
Conjoined Homonulous

So he'll be casting one little spell every turn on D6+1+D3, always using the Homonculous as it doesn't matter that he'll be taking a stupidity test in the next turn since he always takes one anyway :D


You can take two enchanted items? I always thought they are a 0-1 choice. Book of secrets and helm of many eyes are both enchanted items. Atleast my army builder yells "Illegaaaal!" at me.

Avian
27-07-2009, 14:19
Very illegal, yes.

EvC
27-07-2009, 15:40
Goshdarnit, why did they make Helm of Many Eyes an Enchanted Item? Sounds like a Talisman to me! :p Maybe I'll just spread the items over 2 Exalted Heroes instead then. Less other pesky models to get in the way that way ;)

Avian
27-07-2009, 15:45
Heh! On the next Tale of Fantasy Painters, I'm planning to paint up one Tzeentch Exalted on foot with great weapon and Helm of Many Eyes and one Slaanesh with the Book of Secrets (planning for Steed of Shadows).

Artemis360
28-07-2009, 03:40
I have a couple of standard BSB setups:

Barded steed, flail, shield, MoT, Bronze Armour, Collar of Khorne + favour of the gods - He goes in infantry blocks, sometimes that I hit with dual warshrines or as a bodyguard for other characters that aren't immune to killing blow (i.e. nearly all the chaos special characters/chaos lord who you don't want to give the bronze armour to for obvious reasons).

Another is flail, shield, disk, MoT, golden eye of T, blood curdling roar - mainly built this to deal with empire with lots of warmachines and MSU knights.

Another one that I am only just toying with recently is this: on foot, great weapon, shield, extra hand weapon (equipped for every possible enemy), MoT, Collar of Khorne - Cheaper than the others, he can be strength 7 in every round of combat which is great against knights and such things, though a bit risky. However against things that can't pick him out (like impact hits from a chariot/steam tank etc, its golden. If something really horrific comes your way though, you might have to sweet talk your unit champion into stepping up.

EvC
31-07-2009, 14:57
Well I quite enjoyed using the BSB setup of Helm of Many Eyes, Necrotic Phylactery, Great Weapon and Mark of Slaanesh. One thing I particulatly liked was that it actually gave me a reason to take Mark of Slaanesh, as I was throwing the fella out of combat into fear-causing units, sometimes losing by 1- a character with any other mark would have been broken outright. I rolled like crap however, unable to kill a Tomb Prince with him (got his Chariot at least), who then went on to kill my other Exalted Hero with Book of Secrets (+ Scroll, on Steed of Slaanesh). How wude!

Fluffed it even worse in the second game though- went stupid turns 2 and 3, ending up in position to be flanked by savage orc boar boy big uns and rear'ed by a Wyvern. Thanks, dice.

Azethel
01-08-2009, 02:29
Another one that I am only just toying with recently is this: on foot, great weapon, shield, extra hand weapon (equipped for every possible enemy), MoT, Collar of Khorne - Cheaper than the others, he can be strength 7 in every round of combat which is great against knights and such things, though a bit risky. However against things that can't pick him out (like impact hits from a chariot/steam tank etc, its golden. If something really horrific comes your way though, you might have to sweet talk your unit champion into stepping up.

IIRC you only have the option of one mundane weapon...so you cant take both a great weapon AND an extra hand weapon.

...just checked my book and I am correct.