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131izard
23-07-2009, 05:07
Do corpse carts confer a 5+ AS to a Necromancer that rides it? If so, then is Necromacer on CC + Nightshroud armor in a unit a good idea b/c the Necro gets a 4+ AS and get the attack first rule to those who want to attack him?

Sarah S
23-07-2009, 05:19
No they don't.

Lordmonkey
23-07-2009, 07:58
The Necromancer might get +1AS for being mounted, though I could be wrong. This would give him a 6+ armour save, or 5+ with the nightshroud.

Atrahasis
23-07-2009, 08:00
No, the Corpse Cart is neither a chariot nor a cavalry mount, so it confers no save bonus to the rider.

Lordmonkey
23-07-2009, 09:42
No, the Corpse Cart is neither a chariot nor a cavalry mount, so it confers no save bonus to the rider.

Am I correct in assuming that monsters grant no AS bonus?

Atrahasis
23-07-2009, 10:01
Yes, as they are attacked separately.

Note, however, that the Corpse Cart isn't a monster either. It just acts like one in some ways. It's "undefined".

Milgram
23-07-2009, 23:03
and note that the steg grants an AS.

Spirit
24-07-2009, 01:27
and note that the steg grants an AS.

No it doesnt.

The steg has a seperate rule for the howda, which allows the crew a special armour save.

Milgram
24-07-2009, 08:04
characters on the steg receive the AS too, do they not?

Tae
24-07-2009, 08:11
characters on the steg receive the AS too, do they not?

Yes, but this is because they are in the Howda, not because they are on-top of the Steg itself.

havoc626
24-07-2009, 08:29
It is because of the howda rule that the characters get an AS, not because they are on a monsterous mount.

Milgram
24-07-2009, 11:59
the howda is a special rule of the steg, so the character obviously gets an AS granted because it is riding the steg. it is the same as a blorc bigboss gets +2 AS because it is riding a boar. he does get +2 AS because he is riding the boar, not because he is riding 'a mount'. so I fail to see why the steg is not granting an AS to the rider.

Mid'ean
24-07-2009, 12:04
the howda is a special rule of the steg, so the character obviously gets an AS granted because it is riding the steg. it is the same as a blorc bigboss gets +2 AS because it is riding a boar. he does get +2 AS because he is riding the boar, not because he is riding 'a mount'. so I fail to see why the steg is not granting an AS to the rider.

Because the Steg is a monstrous mount and they do not grant any bonuses to their riders. Period. Thats the rule.

EvC
24-07-2009, 12:50
Ok, but characters in the Howdah still get a basic armour save of 2+ in an Ancient Stegadon :D

nosferatu1001
24-07-2009, 13:29
Which really helps you T2 priest survive bowfire :D however I have no such luck as soon as you make it a 3+, RxB annoy me!

Milgram
24-07-2009, 13:54
Because the Steg is a monstrous mount and they do not grant any bonuses to their riders. Period. Thats the rule.

and a boar is a mount without barding and mounts without barding do only grant +1 AS.

the steg grants an AS to the rider not due to the special rule named 'mounstrous mount' but because of the special rule 'howda'. the skink does not get AS because he sits on a monstrous mount but because he sits on a steg.

Shagrat
24-07-2009, 14:56
and a boar is a mount without barding and mounts without barding do only grant +1 AS.


Boars are thick-skinned. They grant +2 AS.
They born with the barding...:D

Milgram
24-07-2009, 15:09
Boars are thick-skinned. They grant +2 AS.
They born with the barding...:D

that's my point. :)

Ultimate Life Form
24-07-2009, 15:24
the skink does not get AS because he sits on a monstrous mount but because he sits on a steg.

I don't know what good this hairsplitting is supposed to do, but...

No.

The Skink doesn't get an AS because he "sits on a steg" but he gets an AS because he sits on a mount that has the special rule "my rider gets an AS".

Milgram
24-07-2009, 15:48
he gets an AS because he sits on a mount that has the special rule "my rider gets an AS".

which the steg happens to be.

I did not start with the hairsplitting! I just don't like my statements to be denied when they are correct. the few times they are correct - like in this case.

VC Billy
24-07-2009, 19:42
I think there is a pretty clear difference. It may not be a significant one in this case, but if a magic weapon took away an armor save you receive for being mounted lets say, the skinks are still enjoying a 2+.

Milgram
25-07-2009, 00:15
but if a magic weapon took away an armor save you receive for being mounted lets say

yeah, making up new magic items and rules to prove a point - nice try. that can be a two edged blade, you know?

Sarah S
25-07-2009, 00:20
How's that? He is correct after all...

Milgram
25-07-2009, 05:58
but if there's an item that says you get any bonus from the monstrous mount you're riding, then you don't get the howda special rule.

see, there is no such magic weapon that takes away the armor save you receive for being mounted and there is no item that takes away your bonus from your monstrous mount.

Sarah S
25-07-2009, 09:21
What is your point?

There is a difference between the +1 armour save bonus that a model gets from being mounted on Cavalry, the additional +1 for having barding on a cavalry mount, the +2 for being on a boar, the +3 for being on a Juggernaut or the 2+ save you get from being in the howdah on a Stegadon.

You could make a whole series of magic items that distinguish between all of the above situations.


Enemies may not use their bonus armour save for being mounted.

Enemies may not benefit from barding.

Enemies may not benefit from any special armour save bonus provided as a special rule of their cavalry mount.

Enemies may not benefit from any special rule on their monstrous mount that increases their armour save.

Milgram
25-07-2009, 23:15
yeah, read the whole thing, thank you.

Shas'O Vash
27-07-2009, 16:29
Wow, this is an interesting thread to say the least... Let me try and shed some light into the flames here.

A rider gets and an armor save bonus for being mounted only so as long as their mount only has one wound. In this event both the rider and mount are treated as a single model; in other words, when the rider dies so does the mount. If the mount has more than one wound it is considered a monstrous mount and both rider and mount are treated as separate targets, also the mount confers no armor save bonus to the rider. For example, Bretonnian Pegasus Knights receive a +1 bonus for being mounted since both the knight and the pegasus are treated as a single model. A Bretonnian character mounted on a Royal Pegasus receives no bonus to his armor save as the Royal Pegasus has three wounds and they are treated as separate targets.

Those are the basic rules out of the BRB. That being said, there are many units with additional special rules that add to this, such as: Barding provides an additional +1 save on top of the normal +1. Boars and Cold Ones provide a +2 save instead of a +1. Juggernauts provide a +3 armor save bonus.

Stegadons have a special rule that is completely separate from the mounted armor save rules called the “Howdah”. This special rule flat out gives its riders a 2+ armor save. This is not a mounted armor save bonus but an entirely separate special rule.

But getting back to the original question, no. A Corpse Cart does not confer an armor save bonus, or regeneration for that matter, to its Necromancer rider.

Milgram
27-07-2009, 21:11
Stegadons have a special rule that is completely separate from the mounted armor save rules called the “Howdah”. This special rule flat out gives its riders a 2+ armor save. This is not a mounted armor save bonus but an entirely separate special rule.

which does not contradict anything I wrote but proves my point.