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Slayerthane
26-07-2009, 18:03
I've been toying around with starting an HE army for a while (a mixed Caledor and Chrace theme) and have come up with a couple of builds for elf princes I haven't seen posted on any army lists on warseer. I was wondering if people think these builds could work. I think they would only be viable in magic heavy lists with at last 2 lvl 2 mages.

For 2250pts
dragon armor, barded elven steed, Radiant gem, temakor's gauntlets, dispel scroll, halberd (default weapon)

Basically this guy would be designed to boost my magic defense and offense. Adds an additional scroll, dispel dice and then give him Bear's Anger which would give him 7 strength 6 attacks, toughness 5, and he would already have a 2+ armor save and 5+ ward save to attacks that are str4 or greater.

The idea is coming up with a spell that can still make him a threat but also something where your opponent might let it through because they're worried about other more devastating spells. Also you might cast bear's anger early in the game hoping your opponent forgets about it until you charge his chaos knights or black knights.

For 3000pts and up (this is with a dragon since I would never field a dragon in a list less than 3K points)
Armor of Caledor, Radiant Gem, Guardian Phoenix, halberd (default weapon), star dragon

Again give him Bear's Anger for 7 str6 attacks to match the dragon's 6 str 6 attacks. This could be enough to take out just about any other unit or character save maybe a dreadlord with pendant of khaelath, but then you would just direct all your attacks against the dragon mount instead.

Has anyone tried this, and think it might work? I think since Bear's anger is the default spell for Lore of beasts it would fix the age old problem with HE magic items not have anything that dishes out enough attacks at a high enough strength.

Harwammer
26-07-2009, 18:09
You have to be US1/unmounted to use bear's anger meaning you'll have to drop the steed or rethink your choice of lore.

Slayerthane
26-07-2009, 23:27
Ahh shoot, ok. I just re-read that in the rulebook. Looks like the only option would be to choose Lore of Fire and try to get the Flaming sword of rhuin.

mikepm07
27-07-2009, 17:15
With the Radiant Gem of Hoeth I think you are best off going High Magic and using him to cast Drain Magic at the end of your phase or Shield of Sapphery on a vulnerable unit (i.e. Swordmasters.)

King_Pash
27-07-2009, 21:33
To be honest, if you're looking for the best non-named Lord you could go for its Prince on Star Dragon with Vambraces of Defence and Armour of Caledor. That makes him hear bulletproof (unless you have dice rolls like mine) and he hits like an avalanche of pain. Good times..

TheSanityAssassin
28-07-2009, 06:06
I agree with King....stick on a Halberd and Amulet of Magic Attacks and your set.

I tend to use Radient Gem on my BSB in my Phoenix Guard...usually I just keep him on foot and cast it on himself, but if I'm feeling fearful and mount him he'll cast it on Caradryan or a mage in the unit. I do agree that if you can get Bear's Anger off and your opponent forgets it can be a world of hurt. Or the turn you hit combat and actually sink dice into it, which either gets off or forces him to divert dispel dice from somewhere else.

As for Lord build's I've found a hard time making it work unless I take the Dragon...I just can't give up the Archmage until I get 2 Lord Choices. I've toyed around with doing silly things like Blade of Leaping Gold and Talisman of Loec to try and make a one-shot infantry slaughter-er, but let's face it...even with high WS and re-rolls, S4 just doesn't cut it on a 250 pt model. The Seafarer's Bow guy can be cool, but then you might as well just take Alith-Anar. Same with the Radient Gem lord and Eltharion. Can't build guy's that useful for those points.

I've also tried Halberd, one of the 2 magic bows, and Armour of Caledor in a Chariot. Worked alright, but I didn't like having my General having to flank stuff, or being so cannon-vulnerable.

mikepm07
28-07-2009, 21:06
I want to try out a Prince with

Dragon Armor/Barded Steed/Shield
Gem of Hoeth
Helm of Fortune
Jewel of Dusk
Sword of Might

Re-rollable 1+ save, ld 10, 4 str 5 attacks, and two power dice plus any from the pool/banner of sorcery that he can throw at any one of the randomly generated high magic spells (all of which are incredibly useful), or drain magic.

I'm thinking about using him in conjunction with two level 2's and a BSB.

I'd have 8 + d3 power dice and Ring of Fury, while having two characters that can hold their own in close combat and, of course, that invaluable ld 10 and BSB re-roll to keep my boys in line.

Slayerthane
30-07-2009, 20:11
Also, even if you take lore of fire and get the fireball default spell (rather than Flaming Sword) that could be nice for taking out annoying flankers like marauder cav or dark riders. The nice thing about bear's anger is that it has a low casting level so you only need 2 PD max to get it off still making him a threat in the magic phase without wasting the PDs of the other mages in trying to cast something.

I was originally thinking of running two HE lists: one magic defense, one magic offense and the prince could be included in either with the Gem and maybe a dispel scroll.

The magic defense would have a level 1 mage with 2 dispel scrolls and the prince with the Gem and a dispel scroll. So you would have 4 DD, +1 to dispel and 3 scrolls.

The magic offense list would be 2 level 2s, with Ring of Corin, Dispel Scroll, Silver Wand, Ring of Fury and then the prince with a dispel scroll and the Gem. Then I would squeeze in the Banner of Sorcery somewhere for a total of 7PD (8-10 with banner), 2 bound items and 2 dispel scrolls.

My main concern with an Archmage is that I'm sacrificing hitting power by having him in the list rather than a prince but I haven't played high elves yet, so that's just the theory hammer talking.

TheSanityAssassin
30-07-2009, 20:33
First, I wouldn't really think of an LV 1 mage, even in the defence list. He just won't cast anything, and given that you'll already be paying a bunch of points for him like that, it's worth the extra few points to get an LV2, maybe even with Silver Wand....if you're going to pay for it make it work in both turns. You do sacrifice a bit of combat power, but the arch-mage can usually do near as much as a Prince in terms of damage if kitted out right, and also lend great support to the rest of your list. The problem with Elf Princes in general is without taking a Dragon it's hard to make them both Killy and Survivable, at least comparable to the Lords of other forces. I know I have a big Archmage bias, given that I swear by mine, but I haven't seen a ton of Non-Dragon Prince lists do as well.

Out of curiosity what else would you consider running. The Prince does become FAR more Viable on Cav heavy forces......That will influence your build more than anything. My number 1 advice to players just starting is to cater your Lord to your list, not the other way around.

Slayerthane
31-07-2009, 03:29
So how would you kit out an Archmage to do as much damage as an Elf prince, out of curiosity?

For me personally, I like cavalry so that's why I've kitted out my elfprince the way I did. A list I was thinking of running for magic defense would be:

Elf prince
BSB
Lvl 1 Mage

2x20 Spearmen
6 DP with Banner of Ellyrion
5 DP
2 Lion Chariots
6 Silverhelms
2 RBTs
1 Eagle

@mikepm07: Your list sounds similar to what I would run. I have always found a BSB invaluable in the armies I've played, which so far have been Dwarfs and DoW.

TheSanityAssassin
31-07-2009, 04:19
So how would you kit out an Archmage to do as much damage as an Elf prince, out of curiosity?



Any number of ways. I mean, he's obviously not going to be fighting to that level (though you can do some tricky things with Bear's Anger or the like), but due to his versatile spell selection you can almost always get a spell that will tear units to bits. Give him Book of Hoeth if you want a true blast-attack, though too many points IMO. Simple things like Silver Wand giving him 5 spells, a couple dispel scrolls and a power stone, then Banner of Sorcery in a unit and you can really start unloading.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to convince you to play a way you don't want to, it's just been my experience that unless you're taking the Dragon Lord, High Elf princes just don't have enough of an effect points wise. Lots of other people disagree with me, which is completely fine.

isidril93
31-07-2009, 09:26
the thing is that the prince needs to be put in a units that needs it...like white lions or phoenix guard...giving him a simple great weapon or white sword will help

btw does anyone know of any good builds for a prince with a shield on foot?

The_O
31-07-2009, 15:27
I just started playing HE again, however sword of hoeth has been working nicely for me. I don't know about the gem of hoeth, but maybe that is because I'm currently in a campaign where I can only use four magic items.

innerwolf
31-07-2009, 15:50
I like the resilient 2+ rerollable, 4 ++ save one on foot, with great weapon. He can some needed extra attacks to a unit of White Lions.

SilentStalker
31-07-2009, 16:26
my favorite foot build for the prince is White Sword of Hoeth (+2 str and KB), Armor of Caledor (2+ AS), Guardian Phoenix (5+ Ward), then talisman of loec. Aim to fight the enemy general, pop talisman, KB the crap outa him =D