PDA

View Full Version : Alpha Legion and Chaos



Serebrate
27-07-2009, 06:16
So, I just finished reading Legion. If you didn't...well spoiler alert.

According to the Acuity, it seems the second option takes place - The Emperor was the de facto winner of the Horus Heresy. The Emperor now rests on the Golden Throne.

But what part does Alpha Legion play in all this? They joined the Heresy to destroy the Emperor and by extension mankind as a way of halting Chaos. Given the failed status, they continue to resist the Imperium of Man despite the fact that Horus - the catalyst - is dead. It is suspect they are fighting Chaos from within, but to unknown results.

I know Alpha Legion is tremendously clandestine, but I was hoping some fluff veterans could fill me in.

MontytheMighty
27-07-2009, 06:49
so their plain for halting chaos was to wipe out mankind, thus no emotion?

Allen
27-07-2009, 07:22
I prefer the idea they choose a third option.

Option one:

side with Horus. The "gods" and "daemons" in the Warp will dwindle on the brink of extinction when the Warmaster, out of guilt, will destroy humanity and a good portion of the sentient species of the galaxy after his victory over the Emperor. Mankind will be erased from the universe, but our galaxy will be free of warp taint.

Option two:

side with the Emperor. The "good guys" will win, but the Emperor will be slain or badly wounded: either way, he'll be out of the equation forever. Without his charisma and wisdom the Imperium will stagnate and became an oppressive, decaying institution. Mankind will survive, but the warp taint in the galaxy will grow stronger. In the end, the Imperium will fall with the entire galaxy and mankind will be erased from the universe anyway.

Alpharius and Omegon didn't like those options. Being the manipulative freaks they are, probably they jumped on the Warmaster wagon because it was the most rational thing to do, given what the Acuity told them...but, just in case, they tried to help the Imperium.
In M41 the actions of the AL are not dissimilar from the Recongregator faction of the Inquisition. They try to innovate the Imperium, to avoid stagnation and promote change...or maybe they're really traitors, and they're just trying to destroy the Imperium.

But if the Cabal was right, are they really "traitors"?

Abnett did a great job with Legion ;)

ryng_sting
27-07-2009, 07:37
If you assume the Cabal's vision was true; and GW, as a rule, doesn't deal in immutable futures.

Whatever the AL's original motive, Chaos seems to have long since broken them in.

will564752
27-07-2009, 09:37
If you assume the Cabal's vision was true; and GW, as a rule, doesn't deal in immutable futures.

Indeed thats true, not even Tzeentch knows the definate future:


Tzeentch's gaze encompasses all of the past and all of the present. The future, however, is a different matter. There are infinite futures, fragmented into uncountable threads, ever changing, ever twisting.... Not even the Great Sorcerer can hold all of the threads in his mighty intellect.

So i fail to see how an Alien species can so surely know the future.


Whatever the AL's original motive, Chaos seems to have long since broken them in.

Hmm.. well we havnt heard anything of Alpharius Omegon since Alpharius' apparent death at the hands of Guilliman (which is highly likely not to have happened) so we cant vouch for what their up to. However yea its undeniable that at least small parts of the legion have turned to Chaos.

I personally like to believe that the Alpha Legion were the ones who lowered the shields on Horus' Flagship during the Siege of Terra. :)

StefDa
27-07-2009, 12:35
Horus did that himself. He saw that with the Ultramarines en route to Terra he would lose the battle, so he lowered his shields, successfully luring the Emperor to teleport aboard Horus' flagship, where Horus waited hoping to destroy the Emperor, thus winning the war, and making the Ultramarines pointless. Only this way could the forces of Chaos win, so the Alpha Legion did not lower the ship's shields.

Urath
27-07-2009, 12:37
Perhaps it may have looked like Horus did, circumstances fitting, but the Imperial scholars would have no way of knowing and, at that point, it's safe to assume Horus would commanded enough loyalty amongst his brothe-... Sorry, "sub-ordinates" to ensure something like that wouldn't happen.

But either way, it's silly. The Alpha Legion were out on the Eastern Fringe.


So i fail to see how an Alien species can so surely know the future.

The two options presented were the most likely to occur and were used to scare the Alpha Legion into making the "right" choice.

StefDa
27-07-2009, 12:45
But either way, it's silly. The Alpha Legion were out on the Eastern Fringe.

Indeed they were, for they were sent to test themselves against the Ultramarines!

Urath
27-07-2009, 12:46
As often said in the Word Bearer series,"The hated coward Legion of Guilliman"

Serebrate
27-07-2009, 12:53
I personally like to believe that the Alpha Legion were the ones who lowered the shields on Horus' Flagship during the Siege of Terra. :)

There's three versions of the this story. One was that Horus wanted to lure the Emperor, the other he wanted to better view the final fall of Terra himself, and the last that he started to feel guilt/panic.

As for the divining paart, the Eldar are capable of doing this on a fairly regular basis.

Urath
27-07-2009, 12:55
I think the final version if where Dan Abnett got the whole "Horus will plunge the Imperium into a second war that will consume it, through guilt".

Personally, I've always liked that reason the most.

Sheena Easton
27-07-2009, 13:40
I'd prefer the option that everyone wakes up to that "book" being a steaming **** and ignoring this cabal nonsense as just that.


Horus did that himself. He saw that with the Ultramarines en route to Terra he would lose the battle, so he lowered his shields, successfully luring the Emperor to teleport aboard Horus' flagship, where Horus waited hoping to destroy the Emperor, thus winning the war, and making the Ultramarines pointless. Only this way could the forces of Chaos win, so the Alpha Legion did not lower the ship's shields.

It was the Space Wolves & Dark Angels fleets that were inbound.

The Ultramarines and Alpha Legion were in the Eastern Fringe and therefore had nothing whatsoever to do with the Battle For Terra.

will564752
27-07-2009, 13:49
Horus did that himself. He saw that with the Ultramarines en route to Terra he would lose the battle, so he lowered his shields, successfully luring the Emperor to teleport aboard Horus' flagship, where Horus waited hoping to destroy the Emperor, thus winning the war, and making the Ultramarines pointless. Only this way could the forces of Chaos win, so the Alpha Legion did not lower the ship's shields.

Im not stupid :) - I know that it what we are told. But we are also in other sources told that Horus wanted to better view the destruction of the Imperium so lowered his shields, or that he felt guilt/shame so did it. And i believe there is at least one more reason from sources that we are given.

I would guarentee though that when the HH novels reach that point Horus would not lower his shields to tempt the Emperor to board because the Loyal legions were almost there, i would say with uttermost certainty that there is some other reason behind it.

Apart from that, a lot of the things we knew about the Heresy have been retconned and replaced during the HH novels so far. And a lot more things will change in the novels to come.




But either way, it's silly. The Alpha Legion were out on the Eastern Fringe.

That doesnt stop them having several operatives aboard the Venegeful Spirit. :)

I know its a long-shot but its only my theory!

And also where does it state they were in the Eastern Fringes? HH: Collected Visions states they were nearby Prospero, and ambushed the Space Wolves and White Scars..



The two options presented were the most likely to occur and were used to scare the Alpha Legion into making the "right" choice.

Yes exactly :)




The Ultramarines and Alpha Legion were in the Eastern Fringe and therefore had nothing whatsoever to do with the Battle For Terra.

That we currently know of :)

As i said above they were not in the Eastern Fringes, but apparently ambushed the Space Wolves and White Scars near Prospero. The Ultramarines fought the Word Bearers not Alpha Legion. The apparent death of Alpharius at the hands of Guilliman happened after the Heresy and the Emperors ascension.

However Alpharius Omegon took the 'Information' gave to them by the Cabal, I think that they would not have simply just ambushed and stalled a legion. If they took the Cabal to be correct they would want to pivotal in the events of the Heresy.

And as 'Legion' is part of the HH series and in it the Cabal stated that (along the lines of) the most important things will be made by the First and Unmade by the Last, i will say that the Alpha Legion play a major, but behind-the-scenes role in the remaining HH books.

Urath
27-07-2009, 14:15
Space Wolves and White Scars? What the hell? From being on the Eastern Fringe, fighting the Ultramarines to getting to Prospero. and the Space Wolves were with the Dark Angels and the White Scars were on Terra?

What the **** is going on.

Mannimarco
27-07-2009, 14:36
a wizzard/ctan/chaos did it :D

i recall from somwhere the space wolves did meet up with the dark angels and were ambushed, what we have to remember id the legions were huge! IIRC the word bearers were split in half, some went off to fight the ultramarines

im not sure if the whole white scars chapter were on terra, a lot of them were but its not outside the realms of possibility they had ships out there somwhere trying to get back to terra as well

Urath
27-07-2009, 14:44
While what you say is true, I think it's due to the authors not checking the older stuff.

will564752
27-07-2009, 19:46
Space Wolves and White Scars? What the hell? From being on the Eastern Fringe, fighting the Ultramarines to getting to Prospero. and the Space Wolves were with the Dark Angels and the White Scars were on Terra?

What the **** is going on.

:)

Where did you get the Alpha Legion being in the Eastern Fringes from? They fought the Ultramarines after the Siege of Terra and the end of the Heresy not before.

According to HH: Collected Visions following the Burning Of Prospero, Russ was Ambushed by the Alpha legion who began slaughtering his fleet. Russ sent a message to the Khan who was fairly nearby warning him that a contingent of the Alpha Legion were en route to ambush him aswell. The Khan wanted to help Russ but Dorn ordered him back to Terra, and left Khan feeling very guilty about leaving Russ to his apparent doom :)

It makes no reference (although other sources do) to the Space Wolves being with the Dark Angels (which IMO makes sense as Prospero is near-ish to Terra, and it never made sense to me that the Space Wolves would go from Prospero to the Eastern Fringes then back to Terra!)

Urath
27-07-2009, 19:53
Yeah, I read the Collected Visions fluff on Lexicanum. Perhaps I was mistaken. I just assumed that the Alpha Legion always remained on the Eastern Fringe, as their Index Aastartes states that they remained aloof from the other Legions and with the majority being around Terra, I thought they'd always remained there.

will564752
27-07-2009, 20:04
Yeah, I read the Collected Visions fluff on Lexicanum. Perhaps I was mistaken. I just assumed that the Alpha Legion always remained on the Eastern Fringe, as their Index Aastartes states that they remained aloof from the other Legions and with the majority being around Terra, I thought they'd always remained there.

:)

So far its the only real thing I can find that the Alpha Legion took part in during the Heresy (Following the Drop Site Massacre). But ive convinced myself that they took a more central but behind-the-scenes role, and ultimately had a big impact on the outcome.

Because as i said I very much doubt that after recieving the Information from the Cabal (whether they took it as True or not) they still had 2 years knowing that the Heresy was about to occur and when it did im sure they had a proposed purpose and plan about what they were going to do. I Doubt this would have been just Stall the Space Wolves :)

Urath
27-07-2009, 20:19
Yeah, I do actually agree with you on this. I don't think that the Alpha Legion would have spent two years pondering their decision and, when the Heresy began, they had just moved their warriors into position to trap the Space Wolves.

Perhaps the Legion was split in what it wanted to do. Perhaps we'll see Omegon taking a portion of the Legion to help Horus, while Alpharius decided to chance it and help the Emperor. It'd be quite nice, as the Alpha Legion are always so certain. They always have the upper hand, but when a galaxy turns upside down and everything everyone has know: their ways of life, who they can trust, are taken from them then it'd be nice to see even this happen to the Alpha Legion.

We'll see.

abasio
28-07-2009, 03:11
So when is the next Alpha Legion HH book due out? :)