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View Full Version : Vampires vs Skaven gunline @ 2k-2250



taffeh
28-07-2009, 17:38
Hey guys,

Wondered if I could have any advice fed back to me - been playing several different builds to try and get round beating a friend who runs a Skaven magic / shooting heavy list where basically @ 2k he has all his 'rats' and at 2250 theres more magic / scrolls etc.

He runs:

Seer (eye of the horned rat)
3 Engineers (all kitted out)

20 stormvermin (rattling gun)
20 clanrats (rattling gun)
20 clanrats (rattling gun)
20 clanrats (warpfire thrower)
4 Plague-Rat swarms

4-5 Jezzails
3 Rat Ogres

2 Warp lightning cannons

I tend to get warp-lightning'ed and ratling gun'ed to death.. with 12ish PD and 6 DD.

My list(s) comprise normally of the following:

Vamp Lord (tried several different types but MoTBA, LOTD seems to be a common type)
Vamp Lord (DA, LOTD)
Vamp Lord (caster or combat)
Vamp Lord (BSB, Drakenhof Banner)

15 Skellies
15 Skellies
18 Grave Guard (sits between both skellies)
5 Wolves
5 Wolves
[corpse cart - shot by Cannons asap]
8 Black Knights - shot up quickly

5 Blood Knights (Full command + Blood Keep Banner) - although these seem to get shot to hell, I do bring them back / have put a Dread Knight + Blood-drinker vamp in this unit and has done well....

20 Ghouls have found their way in and out with a ghoul-orentated vamp

have 10 spare skeletons (LoTD increase starting units) and 40 zombies which I tend to use as raising, and 3 spirit host bases (WoUnDeath) and 3 wraiths (1 banshee)

From reading around I can see reading around I need my lord behind my lines w/ a bodyguard of skeletons, however wouldnt jezzails (on a hill...) / warp lightning cannons still be able to hit the lord from afar, behind my troops?

Any advice would be handy!

Gaargod
28-07-2009, 18:38
First turn charges may work. Take a vampire with Ghoulkin (possibly on Lord) and another with talisman of Lynci, Supernatural Horror and Avatar of Death (and anything else u wanna give him). Charge in against something without a stand and shoot, or just run up near them and terror bomb them - having only a grey seer means those non clan rat units are exceptionally vulnerable. If you take a lord to do this (who will need better protection ofc) you can quite easily cause half his army to run away first turn.

Blood Knight deathstar (Wight King BSB with drakenhof banner) and Blood Keep Flag will take more shots than anything (use black knights as blood knights).

Look out sir (sit in a bunker of skeles) should keep the lord safe. You could build to out magic him happily enough. Certainly 6DD will not stop full on invo spam. Deploy trees in front of any hills he puts down (my favourite tactic against gunlines tbh).

dal9ll
28-07-2009, 22:20
Holy God your friend is running probably the most cheesed-out Skaven list you can make! 3 Ratling Guns? 3 Warlock Engineers? TWO Warp-Lightning Cannons?? He certainly wants to win now doesnt he?

From the looks of it, he doesnt have any skirmishers/screeners/war-machine/lone characters hunters so Id first get some fast units (I dont know anything about VCs, only Skaven) like fliers and send those at the Warp-Lightning Cannons and Jezzials, since theyll flee really easily (WLCs MUST flee as a charge reaction). Also, some light shooting can take care of any Weapons teams in line of sight, though youll be at -1 to hit for shooting at single models.

Varghulfs seem good for rear-charges and artillery-hunting. Many Skaven players run their Grey Seers on their own so try to take them out wherever possible -- thats almost 300 VP right there!

@Gaargod:
that tree-deployment move is just mean!

taffeh
28-07-2009, 22:38
@ Gaargod - most units have stand + shoot (even the clanrats have the engineers with the pistols), and thus even if he engages these in combat, they will get SCR vs a lone vamp, which if he manages to survive to his next turn will get shot to pieces.

@dal9ll - Seer stays in Stormvermin unit until things get hairy - then skitterleaps out. And VC have no shooting but the howl of the banshee

Kayosiv
29-07-2009, 09:33
You definitly need to get some flyers. Bats are terrible fighters but even they should be able to kill weapon teams, and warp lightning cannons will flee off the map most times if charged at the right angle from your bats. Remember that Ratling guns only have a range of 15', and jezzails are long range at over 18', and your bats have a charge range of 20'.

The Banshee has a 12 (march)+8=20 range for her wail attack, and being ethreal can move through anything. Hide her behind units to keep her safe from jezzails and take out a weapon team with her before they ever get to fire. This won't protect you from the warp lightning cannon sadly, but hopefully your bats will take them out by turn 2 if they can survive all the fire.

Raise units of zombies, lots and lots of units of zombies to act as human shields. This'll cost you a fair amount of victory points (50 per new unit) but if you can actually start charging the Skaven with your fear causing units largely in tact, that'll be a good thing. Also, if you can, charge the guns with your zombies, if even 1 lives through the close combat phase, the guns won't be able to fire next turn without the risk of him killing his own units to free them up.

Get as many ways to use Vanhel's Danse as possible, bound items, extra spell levels for your wizards etc, to help close the gap.

Consider the Black Coach, it is very fast, will obliterate weapon teams, and the only thing in the Skaven Arsenal that can really reliably hurt it is the warp lightning cannons. Jezzails have a shot to do some damage, but it has 4 wounds and excellent saves, and also can hopefully take away some of your opponents power dice. Make sure to position it so that the Skaven player has to fire through his own units to hit it when deploying, then put your units of knights next to it (not behind it) to draw shooting.

Anything that can give you extra saves vs range is good. Banners, magic items, etc. that save vs missles and magic missles will help you. Also note that ALL Skaven shooting is magical (except for slings, but nobody takes those) so ward saves against magical attacks work too.