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sneroplex
30-07-2009, 03:40
I'm really not sure on the answer to this one so I'm hoping you guys can shed some light.

A monstrous creature cannot fight challenges. When a character riding a monstrous mount fights a challenge the mount also takes part in the challenge.

What about monstrous creatures that are also characters, such as the Treeman Ancient and greater daemons? I couldn't find anything in the BRB that covers this. Seems to me they should be able to fight in a challenge I just want to clarify.

siphon101
30-07-2009, 04:13
I'm really not sure on the answer to this one so I'm hoping you guys can shed some light.

A monstrous creature cannot fight challenges. When a character riding a monstrous mount fights a challenge the mount also takes part in the challenge.

What about monstrous creatures that are also characters, such as the Treeman Ancient and greater daemons? I couldn't find anything in the BRB that covers this. Seems to me they should be able to fight in a challenge I just want to clarify.

They are characters, and thus can issue and accept challenges. In addition, because they have no ranks to hide behind, they can not refuse a challenge

BlackVomit
30-07-2009, 06:12
What about magic items that target monsters? Will they still work?

havoc626
30-07-2009, 06:52
What about magic items that target monsters? Will they still work?

No, so the beastmen item that makes monsters unable to attack the model (or hit on a 6, i can't remember exactly) won't work against a Bloodthirster, nor would the spell from Lore of Beasts.

Apparently characters that are monsters are not monsters that are characters, or at least, that's what GW says.

Milgram
30-07-2009, 07:25
beastmen item does not allow attacks, orc item makes them hit on 6. and according to demon FAQ, monstrous characters do not count as monsters.

Staurikosaurus
31-07-2009, 12:34
If you play by the rules however, and don't use FAQs then the character counts as a character and as a monster thus is effected by things that effect both.

Izram
31-07-2009, 13:34
Is there a sentance that says that it 'counts as a monster'? I don't have my books with me, but I thought it said that either it acts like a monster, or moves like a monster, or does things much like a monster or something to that effect.

Staurikosaurus
31-07-2009, 13:41
Page 7 of the rulebook. "Some characters, like the mighty Daemon Princes of Chaos, are so large and powerful that they follow the rules for monsters!"

and

"They are normally mounted on a 40mm or larger base."

kramplarv
31-07-2009, 13:59
Staurikosaruas:

an FAQ are made to make it clear how to in i certain situation. Like in this case, and i really have no issue with the bloodthirster being immune to beast cowers, since he also is immune to wolf hunts...

sneroplex
31-07-2009, 14:34
Thanks for the replies guys, that makes it pretty clear to me. Does anybody have a link to the FAQ by any chance, or can I just find it on GW's website?

Here's one of the things I was thinking about. A Treeman Ancient with the annoyance of nettlings spite, which makes it so he can only be hit on 6's in a challenge. Does anybody else find this extremely beardy?

Shas'O Vash
31-07-2009, 14:51
The FAQ part 2 is what you want. You can go to the GW website or following this link: http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m2220025_Warhammer_FAQ_part2_Feb_2009

Page four has the following question:

Q. If a Character is also a Monster (e.g. Greater
Daemons, Treeman Ancients, Shaggoth
Champions), is it affected by magic items (e.g.
Rune of the True Beast) and spells (e.g. The Beasts
Cowers) that are stated as working against
‘Monsters’?
A. No, they are characters and not monsters, even
though they share some rules with monsters
(normally this is limited to the way they move, their
inability to join units and their unit strength).

On a side note of how much they did not think this one through, originally the answer only said, "(normally this is limited to the way they move and their inability to join units)". They shadow fixed it after about a month. So for a month, Bloodthirsters were unit strength 3, technically...

WLBjork
31-07-2009, 19:58
Page 7 of the rulebook. "Some characters, like the mighty Daemon Princes of Chaos, are so large and powerful that they follow the rules for monsters!"

Since modified to include the words "some of" between "follow" and "the".

Thus making it even worse...

Lord Zarkov
31-07-2009, 21:52
Although that was important when it was done since at time of release Daemon Princes were Ogre-Sized-Infantry

havoc626
07-08-2009, 09:31
Thanks for the replies guys, that makes it pretty clear to me. Does anybody have a link to the FAQ by any chance, or can I just find it on GW's website?

Here's one of the things I was thinking about. A Treeman Ancient with the annoyance of nettlings spite, which makes it so he can only be hit on 6's in a challenge. Does anybody else find this extremely beardy?

Well, it can be seen as a little bit bready by some, but I for one don't. If you are challenging/ accepting a challenge from something that big, you'd have something up your sleave that would turn the Treeman into a big pile of splinters anyway.

Most armies would have some type of ranged attack that would take out a treeman, so it isnt really that bad anyway.

EvC
07-08-2009, 15:45
If you are challenging/ accepting a challenge from something that big, you'd have something up your sleave that would turn the Treeman into a big pile of splinters anyway.

Or you're a unit champion and you're just holding him off from hitting your unit in the meantime :D