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Chains and Glass
01-08-2009, 07:26
Hey Guys, this isn't a joke, this isn't cute, it's definately not even funny.

how do i beat my girlfriend????

in the last few games we've played she's tabled me every time (sometimes quite quickly), we've been playing at 1200ish points and she's been using a lord on a dragon (dark elves).

i know, i know, but its 500points of her army so it seemed unfair to not let her have it, rather than me bitching about it, can anyone help my destroy this list with warriors of chaos:

Lord
Black Dragon
Blood Armour
Crimson Death

Sorceress
level 2
Darkstar Cloak

14 Crossbowmen

14 Spearmen

20 Corsairs

5 Cold One Knights.

I have:

2x 5 Marauder Cavalry
15x Additional Hand weapon Warriors
20x Halberd/ Shield Warriors
3x 5 Chaos Knights
Chaos Chariot.
Dragon ogre Shaggoth
3x 5 Warhounds of Chaos
28x Marauders

Will be getting:
Warshrine
3x trolls
Boobsnake Hero (As a Sorceror)

I Use:

Exalted Hero
Juggernaut of Khorne + MoK
Flail, Shield, Favour of the gods.

My two restrictions are that:

Preferably i'd want to not use the shaggoth, mostly because she put it together and i could see the excuses fly if the shaggoth carried me.

The other is: i'd prefer to keep the exalted the same as he is (best 189pts i've ever used)

Any tactics appreciated, no matter how bizzarre, convoluted or weird.
Any list help appreciated, no matter how cheesy.

Keep in mind that i'd like to keep the list similar-ish when she adds a hydra and other nasties into the list (5x Dark Riders, assassins, about 10~ cold one knights and witch elves look to be the main choices) to bring it up to 2000/ 2250.

Short of that, any one got any idea on how woc defeat dragons (without shooting it seems almost impossible).

Laughter, definately not appreciated.

Condottiere
01-08-2009, 07:51
Let's be honest, you deliberately chose that title for this thread.

One option is combat resolution - I don't know the WoC book that well, but a character to tie up the Dragon in a challenge, and with Static CR tipping the scales in your favour.

Angelust
01-08-2009, 07:57
I can't remember exactly what those magic items do, but if it's the crazy three up armor, five down ward, four up regen, etc...buboes can take care of the rider quick. No armor or ward, with a 50/50 on regen.

Otherwise, you might want to try a lvl4 Tzeentch sorceror or daemon prince. You can fly the caster behind LoS, and hope for a good return on those 2d6 S2d6 hits when you get gateway.

Titilating Delusions can also be quite good, as you move the dragon into a disadvantageous position, then get a flank charge with a ranked up unit or unit of knights, and kill the thing with combat res.

A simple exalted with the glaive of putrefacation might neutralize the dragon as well, though you're rolling to wound on a 5+.

If you want to bring the ultimate cheese and rules lawyering, bring a Tzeentch Sorc Lord on disc with rending sword, spell familiar, and a couple power stones with Haemonculous and blood curdling roar. The S1 hits might dink the rider, while Flickering Fire and Gateway with rerolls to wound will likely take care of the dragon quickly. The downside is that your girlfriend may dump you. :-(

So far her list doesn't seem too bad. She's not using twin hydras, and it's largely block infantry. Feed the dragon cheap units like hounds or horsemen and try to redirect it so that it cannot attack immediately after it wipes out the sacrificial unit. With any luck, it'll only kill 3-4 cheap units the entire game, while the rest of your army slaughters the spearmen/crossbowmen/corsairs, etc...

Copella
01-08-2009, 14:54
Blood armor gets better the more kills it racks up. To a max of +1 armor. Crimson death is Str.6 sword. Can't be modified any higher. So anything you have that drops those armor saves to flimsy armor is your best bet. Challenge the Rider with something that can punch through the armor. Than you can either lure the dragon away from your army or try to finish it off with knights.

Lord Hurin
01-08-2009, 15:03
As soon as I saw this thread title I thought "hmm... I'm sure Bobby Brown would be able to help!"

Angelust
01-08-2009, 17:15
Oh, than definitely buboes and any combination of tricksyness to get a good challenge or unit to charge.

willowdark
01-08-2009, 17:39
Don't get the Warshrine. Get the Hellcannon. st5/10 stone thrower that forces a -1LD panic check. That dragon will run and hide the first time you hit it with it, if scatter dice are nice to you. Not that it's a sure bet that she'll fail that panic check, but just the thought and the damage delt alone should scare her away.

Or, even better, she'll get angry and charge the Hellcannon with the Dragon.

5W, T6 and unbreakable while the Cannon is alive should lock that Dragon into combat long enough for you to land that flank charge with something that can kill the Dragon. Once the Dragon's dead that dread Lord is toast.

Probably won't come to that since she isn't taking the Pendant or Regen armour, so direct all your attacks against the rider and he's done for. Or you could attack the dragon first to get rid of it. I'd say it's 6 of one, half dozen of the other.

TheSanityAssassin
02-08-2009, 03:03
I must say, trying to beat a Dragon at a points level where lords aren't allowed is kinda hard....especially without shooting....

Havock
02-08-2009, 04:16
Can't she, you know, proxy it as a noble on manticore?

Dark14
02-08-2009, 05:26
ya playing by the rules would help you.

acsmedic
02-08-2009, 06:44
First at 1200 you are not suppose to have a lord level character. However I understand that you play with what you have.

So to sum it up. 2 spawn and your general with sword of might, shield, armor of dargon...something like that.. gives you ward vs non-magical attacks.


Spawn move in the compulsory movement phase which means you can "aim" them before you roll your 2d6. Two spawn can pin down the dragon as they are unbreakable long enough to get your general and maybe some knights into contact. Once there kill the rider. if you are khorne on a jug you will have a 0+ AS and a 4+ward vs the dragons attacks.

Chains and Glass
02-08-2009, 07:59
Yeah i chose this title on purpose, 99% of my threads get 0-1 responses, it's annoying.

4+ ward save against non-magical doesn't help against crimson death but maybe, anyways i generally get killed by 3-4 wounds (overkill) so i'm not sure that would "save" me.

challenges fail because the dragon usually munches me (dragon versus jugger = bad time bears)


Yeah the problem is i have no shooting (bloodcurdling roar usually has fun against knights or xbows though ^^) so the only way i can deal with the dragon is redirecting it, but shes gotten wise and now uses the breath attack to melt marauders/ halt knight charges in their tracks (by stopping the charge, late game i become so stupidly vunerable that she usually just flys around my knights fire-breathing over and over again)

Yeah i understand lords aren't cool at 1200~ points, but we're just practicing games for some upcoming LGS tournaments.

thanks for the help guys, i think i'll just keep trying to feed it light cav and dogs (even though terror tests ruin my day)....

.... dunno what i'll do when the dragon gets it's multi-headed friend next week.... :( )

Nathangonmad
02-08-2009, 10:25
''we've been playing at 1200ish points and she's been using a lord on a dragon (dark elves).'' telling her shes cheating might help.

Condottiere
02-08-2009, 10:58
It's not cheating if both agree to it, but someone may be suffering from undue influence.

Kerill
02-08-2009, 11:01
Buboes will not work as well as stated since you can't target the rider. As noted her list is illegal at 1200 points, so what do you expect?

TurboDzan
02-08-2009, 11:34
If she is going to bring a dragon to a 1200pt game the only thing you can do is bring a dragon. Or since the rules are being broken anyway, ally a bloodthirster and rip the dragon apart.

Skogla
02-08-2009, 11:50
If she is going to bring a dragon to a 1200pt game the only thing you can do is bring a dragon. Or since the rules are being broken anyway, ally a bloodthirster and rip the dragon apart.

This ;)
also how would buboes work against DEs lol-reversed-armor-save-thing? (Pendant of Khaeleth)

Isabel
02-08-2009, 14:26
This ;)
also how would buboes work against DEs lol-reversed-armor-save-thing? (Pendant of Khaeleth)

Buboes does not have a strength value so they would not receive a ward save. Killed a DE lord with it in my last tournament first turn of the game.

Fall from grace
02-08-2009, 14:55
how do i beat my girlfriend???

Not that I approve but I'd say a big stick followed up with promises that it'll never happen again.

Nathangonmad
02-08-2009, 15:05
Not that I approve but I'd say a big stick followed up with promises that it'll never happen again.

I actually laughed out loud

willowdark
02-08-2009, 15:18
"How do I beat my girlfriend?"

The answer: publicly. Leaves the biggest impression. ;)

I'm surprised you didn't go for my Hellcannon idea. Seems like an answer that will make think hard about countering. Force your opponent to make hard choices and there's a good chance she'll make the wrong one.

Stuffburger
02-08-2009, 15:27
Well, since she has tied up 500+ points on one hero i'd create an uber-hammmer specifically to trash it.

5 CK, MoK, Lances, and a killy offensive hero will weigh in about the same points cost and pump out something like 15 S6 and 4 S7 attacks at about the same cost, without resorting to cheese, complicated items or magic. If you can distract it with hounds and fodder and get the charge you've pretty much won the game.

That sword that negates armor would be nice too.

Alternatively, max out sorcerers and bound spells and spam it with all the magic you can get.

Oenghus
02-08-2009, 20:23
thanks for the help guys, i think i'll just keep trying to feed it light cav and dogs (even though terror tests ruin my day)....

.... dunno what i'll do when the dragon gets it's multi-headed friend next week.... :( )

Terror tests? Start marking some units with Slaanesh or Khorne. Keep piling Marauder cavalry into that dragon and hatred will force it to pursue -- as long as you make the units big enough that something stays alive. After it pursues (hopefully off to the side somewhere) hit it again with another unit. Once it's pursued that, either hit it again or ignore it. It should be turn five or so by then, and the rest of your army should have rolled over the T3 elves.

Also, now that she's had some practice with the dragon, let her know that it's time to start playing by the rules. Tabling you repeatedly with an illegal unit isn't going to help her game.

orlanth1000
04-08-2009, 02:45
@ Fall from grace . That could be the funniest thing I have ever read on here. Might try that with my wife, apart from her spanish temper may destroy me,the stick and the house before i even get near her.

Kayosiv
04-08-2009, 05:41
Charge it with a unit of Knights with no champion and lances and some sort of chaos mark.

10-15 attacks that hit on 4's and wound on 3's with no saves allowed will seriously injure or downright kill it.

To keep it in place, agreed, chaos spawn or hellcannon or any other sort of unbreakable or stubborn unit to keep it in place will work fine, but it has to be fairly fast, or you have to have enough of them to cover your battle line (or just deploy narrowly).

Havock
04-08-2009, 16:34
Marauder horsies with a Unit Champion can take care of that dragon.
Mark of slaanesh, charge, challenge.
Dragon will win on CR (max overkill versus outnumber) and you will likely break.

que pursueage into a unit that can hold it off.
Say, a fully ranked up unit of marauders, MoS with full command.
It's a bit of a guess, but the deeper your unit is, the more chance you have. Of course, this only works once :p

Sureshot05
04-08-2009, 16:57
Okay, a few ideas. I've not fought the newest warriors so please bear this in mind. However, I am very good at big beasty slaying :)

Option 1)
You need slaanesh sorcery in my opinion. It is the wrong idea to try and beat it as the armies are already highly unbalanced. Instead, seek to disable it until you can overwhelm it. Titilating delusions is a great spell for this. 3 x Slaanesh L2 sorcerors really will help you twist this around as she be stuck with trying to deal with a magic heavy response.

2)
On the subject of challenges, make sure you use the unit champion not your lord on a jugger! The sneakiest tactic is to draw the charge in the front of one your halberdiers and have the champion issue a challenge and die in honourable fashion. If lead by your Jugger (remember, you don't have to take advantage of the extra speed just because you have it) then the unit champion will take the blows, leaving the lord to wreck bloody retribution. Just be careful about having your general baited. If you can add to this unit the Warbanner (Common magic item, often overlooked initially) then you'll be winning before even the first punches.

Your combat resolution for this unit should be:
+3 (ranks)
+1 (Standard)
+1 (outnumber)
+1 (Warbanner)

The lord
5 max for killing the champion.

3) Often, deployment and moving become vital in these scenarios. (I know, like most of warhammer!) Make sure your jugger is set up to face across the front of your lines, and not towards the enemy! You must keep them out of your lords sight. Deploy on a flank and try and drawn the beast towards a large unit of infantry (pyschological warfare may be necessary). Then hit it in the side with two units from two differing directions.

Make sure you are setting up correctly. In particular, pay attention to the dragons deployment. If you can save your warriors and lord til last, then you should be able to arrange the above with ease. Whilst a little metagamey, with big flying monsters, you MUST prepare your deployment for them. It is also worth noting that often means deploying your first bait unit 12" on the table and the rest at 11" so that the only charge available to the beast is your warriors.

4)

Rig the dice :evilgrin:

ScytheSwathe
04-08-2009, 17:13
Buy her a battalion box, then play at 2k points.
You get to win, she gets a present, everyones happy

SabaLoth
07-08-2009, 15:18
Buy her a battalion box, then play at 2k points.
You get to win, she gets a present, everyones happy

QFT, or just get an army that shoots!

but about your question:
disabling is probably a lot better than beating, see above for options

Troah
07-08-2009, 15:37
You beat her the say way you would beat any woman....You don't, you just let 'em win.