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warp_pyro
03-08-2009, 11:54
Just a quick question, I haven't come across this in games yet, but was thinking about it the other day and wanted some opinions from others.

The Screaming bell roll of a 13 (every enemy unit takes a panic teast) specifies that undead armies take a teast as if the army general has been killed, now as the skaven book was written before DoC book existed, does this cause an 'instability' test on deamons (as if they had lost combat)? What does everyone think?

Cheers

Lordmonkey
03-08-2009, 12:21
Daemons are not undead. If the book doesn't specify daemons then it doesn't.

Lijacote
03-08-2009, 13:31
I think GW would (if it was sane) have the daemons make instability tests. At the moment I don't think it works that way, at least not by RAW.

I think it'd be reasonably fair and fluffy to have them make instability tests anyway. Would the general's leadership help?

Mercules
03-08-2009, 14:34
RAW states they take a Panic Check. All Daemons are ITP and therefore do not take Panic Checks. They did not loose combat and so the Instability check does not come into play.

It might make an interesting house rule though. When the Skaven book comes out I am sure we will see a change to the Screaming Bell to update it for all the new armies.

warp_pyro
03-08-2009, 14:51
RAW states they take a Panic Check. All Daemons are ITP and therefore do not take Panic Checks. They did not loose combat and so the Instability check does not come into play.


This is true, but the undead armies are ITP, and they are specifically mentioned as being effected! I know the deamons are not specifically mentioned, but you need to remember that when this was written the Deamons did not exist in their own army book, and IIRC had different rules back then anyway.

I hope they do pick up on this when they redo the book.

I know the update is coming soon, the reason I was asking is I'm in a tourny before the new book is likely to come out, I was going to check and see if the tournement had house ruled it or not, but just wanted others opinions before I did.

Mercules
03-08-2009, 15:13
This is true, but the undead armies are ITP, and they are specifically mentioned as being effected! I know the deamons are not specifically mentioned, but you need to remember that when this was written the Deamons did not exist in their own army book, and IIRC had different rules back then anyway.

Well, we can't expect GW to write rules for a book that does not exist. At the same time, we can't assume that the Screaming Bell should affect Daemons. Instead we wait for Errata, FAQs, and new books.

This would all be much easier if GW went through EVERY book and updated errata/FAQs for it whenever the published a new book. Then they could errata the Screaming Bell roll of 13 to include Daemons and we wouldn't have to play with a worthless result against certain armies.

EvC
03-08-2009, 16:02
By the rules, Daemons are immune as they are ItP and so pass every panic test. Good thing there's a new Skaven book out in a few months, hopefully this won't be an issue any more!

Sarah S
03-08-2009, 23:46
By the rules, Daemons are immune as they are ItP and so pass every panic test. Good thing there's a new Skaven book out in a few months, hopefully this won't be an issue any more!

Hell with our luck and GW's writing skills, the new book will probably just cause the Panic tests without any special rules for anything else at all!

jrodrag
04-08-2009, 01:16
I say make demons take a test as if thier general had died and make thier units all take panic tests.

Since neither result would affect them I would just liek to see the look on my opponents face when I insisted that it worked that way.

warp_pyro
04-08-2009, 08:16
Thanks for the responses, I guess thats enough of an answer for me, will just have to hope that GW update the entries when they redo the book :)

Cheers

Urgat
04-08-2009, 10:16
Hell with our luck and GW's writing skills, the new book will probably just cause the Panic tests without any special rules for anything else at all!

The way things go, it'll cause panic tests even to ITP troops, imho.

Lord Zarkov
04-08-2009, 10:45
Considering Swarms, daemons, undead etc, I'd like something like "All enemy units must take a leadership test. Units failing will break as if from combat (fleeing directly away from the bell). Units that cannot break (e.g. due to being Unbreakable) instead suffer a sumber of wounds equal to the amount they failed by. These wounds may not be saved by any means."
Too much to expect though I think

EvC
04-08-2009, 11:28
The way things go, it'll cause panic tests even to ITP troops, imho.

Which will still be useless as ItP troops pass all panic tests ;)

nosferatu1001
04-08-2009, 13:37
Maybe it'll cause automatically failed panic checks, that could be fun - undead fleeing from the weird bell :D

Spirit
05-08-2009, 00:48
Which will still be useless as ItP troops pass all panic tests ;)

Then how does harry the hammer work?

Sarah S
05-08-2009, 01:00
Then how does harry the hammer work?

He doesn't - because GW don't know their own rules.

This surprises you?

Spirit
05-08-2009, 01:02
He doesn't - because GW don't know their own rules.

This surprises you?

It certainly doesnt surprise me that your moaning about it.

Necromancy Black
05-08-2009, 03:10
Funny, but a bit uncalled for Spirit.

As it is, the Bell does nothing at all against daemons when a 13 is rolled.

Same thing as if it was fighting an all Khorne army and none of the units had lost frenzy yet.

Spirit
05-08-2009, 04:16
Funny, but a bit uncalled for Spirit.

.

Just answering like with like is all. :)

The bell clearly should cause instability checks in daemons, and im certain that if its rules stay roughly the same for 7th ed Skaven, they will be made to take the instability test, but as it stands, skavens age rears its ugly head again.