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Jushak
03-08-2009, 18:59
Well, first game of WHFB in ages behind and as I feared, fanatics ended up being a headache. I quickly checked some threads with the search tool, but would love to have some more detailed answers (and especially sources).

In short what happened during the game was this:

O&G player brought unit carrying fanatics within 8'' of my warhounds which I was going to use to force release on next turn. All three fanatics were placed near each other on the front, but moved only measly 3''.

Next turn we had short discussion about wrether or not I could move said warhounds on top of the fanatics and what would happen if I did. In the end I ended up moving the hounds in front of the fanatics, while the frenzied knights they were covering stayed behind, hoping that the fanatics would do more damage to their own side than mine.

The next turn saw the real problem. My opponent rolled 9'' towards my knights, and proceeded to move all three fanatics - claiming they moved as unit - first through the warhounds - annihilating them - and proceeded to move them towards the knights.

What happened next was that one of the fanatics was - barely - in range of the knights. My opponent proceeded to roll 6d6, informing that his fanatics had reached the unit and ended up "under the unit", hitting second time before dying.

At this point I started flipping through his armybook, wondering what the heck was happening. However, I ended up picking the models as casualties (from 11 wounds caused) due another gamer vocally stating that I was "trying to rules-lawyer my way out of the situation" while I was reading the rules. As such I proceeded to finish the game without further issues.


Now, after checking the entry for fanatics myself without someone constantly pestering on the side, here are my questions:

1. Are fanatics single models or a unit that moves together? I always thought they are moved as single models, but the description is a bit ambigious I guess.

2. Can you voluntarily move units on top of fanatics? If this is possible, are they destroyed only if enough models are left to cover their bases or regardless of models left?

3. Do fanatics move their full movement if they hit units on their way or do they stop 1'' behind first unit hit? I assume they move the full amount rolled, but I'd prefer being sure.

rtunian
03-08-2009, 19:04
1. fanatics are individuals and roll scatter and 2d6 movement individually during compulsory movement part of phase

2. you can move through fanatics. you only destroy a fanatic (by movement) if you end a move on top of it, but you take additional d6 hits (d6 for moving into, and d6 for stopping on). you can also magic or shoot a fanatic to death. if you move through it, and your unit completely clears it, you take 1d6 and the fanatic lives

3. if a fanatic ends its move inside a unit it bounces to 1" beyond, in the same direction as it was moving

highelfmage
03-08-2009, 19:09
1 are single models and move each one separately. if a hit is role use the arrow for the direction

2 you can and you take 2d6 s5 but the fanatic dies. you can even get on multiple fanatics.

3 they move their full movement and would not stop inside a unit if they dont have enough movement but would be placed 1inch behind the unit. also if you ever roll double for movement or hit terrain they will die.

Toads77
03-08-2009, 19:12
People like that give fanatics a bad reputation. That's one of the dirtiest moves I'd heard of, I hope your opponent was a little kid, it would greatly sadden me to think that an adult would pull something like that, with his friend to help him cheat. geez.... :(

Jushak
03-08-2009, 19:22
1. fanatics are individuals and roll scatter and 2d6 movement individually during compulsory movement part of phase

This is how I pictured them to work, but I would really much like an exact source. Is there anything more solid on this than the paragraph mentioning how shots at fanatics are resolved like normal vs. models with unit size 1? I'm not sure that is enough to convince my friend, as GW decided to mix use of "a fanatic" and "fanatics" liberally through the rules :rolleyes:


2. you can move through fanatics. you only destroy a fanatic (by movement) if you end a move on top of it, but you take additional d6 hits (d6 for moving into, and d6 for stopping on). you can also magic or shoot a fanatic to death. if you move through it, and your unit completely clears it, you take 1d6 and the fanatic lives

The exact thing I was looking for here is wrether or not it is possible to have a unit stop on top of fanatic(s) on purpose. I'm guessing it's no as it's worded "may move and flee through", meaning only way this could happen would be due flee/compulsory/charge movement where the fanatics just happen to be where the unit is moving.

Thanks for the answers :D

Braad
03-08-2009, 19:30
There is a special rule that says a unit may deliberatily move on top of a unit. It sustains D6 hits. If the unit does not flee, does not move further and is not wiped out, then it destroys the fanatic, but the unit sustains another D6 hits.

It seems like a bit of an unfair bunch... that guy played it so wrong, that its not even close to rules-lawyering, if you were just reading his book.

I can only add that the stuff posted here is the correct way to play it. Roll 2D6 movement for each fanatic, and move them all seperately from each other. When they move inside a unit, they bounch out 1" beyond, if they go through completely they do their full move.
Also, just for your information, if a fanatic rolls a double on its movement (except on their release-turn) they are killed.

Jushak
03-08-2009, 19:32
People like that give fanatics a bad reputation. That's one of the dirtiest moves I'd heard of, I hope your opponent was a little kid, it would greatly sadden me to think that an adult would pull something like that, with his friend to help him cheat. geez.... :(

The guy is a close friend of mine, but as he is plagued by horrible luck he is occasionally quick to interpret rules his way. Most of the time it's easier to just let it slip and try to enjoy the game anyway - the game ended up being mostly enjoyable, even though the loss of my hammer unit in 1000 points game kind of spelled disaster for me :p

Dice gods did punish him right after by making him move his second fanatic group through his general with the result that he removed both his general and the second group of fanatics from the table in similar fashion to my knights.

Edit: The guy pestering me is another friend of mine, his pestering was mostly because he was making a scene about how many people were arguing over rules that day, claiming that "he's been away one week and everyone's turned into a rules-lawyer in the mean time". Listening to some of the squabbles he wasn't all too wrong either :rolleyes:

Edit: Thanks for all the answers!

BlackVomit
03-08-2009, 20:06
1 are single models and move each one separately. if a hit is role use the arrow for the direction.

Actually this rule never made it to the army book. The guy doing the battle report in White Dwarf was mistaken.



3. if a fanatic ends its move inside a unit it bounces to 1" beyond, in the same direction as it was moving

I am not 100% but my impression was that the fanatic moves the full movement and only if it stops inside a unit it is placed 1" behind the unit in the direction it was moving.

Also, a unit may choose to end its movement on top of the fanatic. It will take 2D6 hits but the fanatic is removed. OnG rulebook pg 25 last chapter - "any unit finishes its move over the fanatic."

Carpet
03-08-2009, 21:31
I've got to say this is where the 7th ed army book really sucks compared to the 6th ed because the rules are so clear in the previous one, and I think 7th ed assumes people are used to playing with previous lists for the basic mechanic of how a fanatic works. Nowhere in 7th ed does it state that fanatics move individually, compared to 6th which states "Move each fanatic one at a time".

If you're a player coming to greenskins for the first time without ever having seen the rules I can understand why you might think they move as a unit, I don't know how you would prove that they don't to someone without referring back to a ruleset which has been been superseded, which is obviously not the way to do things!


Actually this rule never made it to the army book. The guy doing the battle report in White Dwarf was mistaken.

I think you're referring here to the WD article which stated that you got to pick the direction on the roll of a HIT, this hasn't been mentioned at all here, and the rules state 'moving 2D6" in a random direction (determined by the scatter dice)' which again is confusing to someone new to the game, as they may not know about the small arrow on the HIT that also indicates a direction - as a side note is there a rule somewhere which states this as a general rule for using scatter dice?

Deglosh
03-08-2009, 21:41
Well in the army book that was "in play" before this one, it is as stated above my comment, that that one had a lot more detail. Its been a while since i last saw it. But the fact i know how to use my fanatics now is because of that book. Indeed they need to compensate for the lack of info in the new army book.

One thing i was wondering about and that i am REALLY happy seeing here is the scatterdice thing. If i remember correctly in the last AB of O&G on the roll of a hit the fanatic died, but i dont think they died on a dubble on the distance. They changed that to the opposite, wich is great. You really do roll hit more often than youd like on that darn dice.

M8, if that guy has problems and has to use the rules and twist them THAT much, maybe he should take a good look at his army list, and maybe realize he is playing the cheapest models in all of warhammer. Im an Orc and Goblin player myself. He should try to flesh things out, sort of speak with some Boyz and an orc to lead the horde, that should make those meesly gobbos more points worth.

Deglosh
03-08-2009, 21:42
YES you can stop ontop of fanatics ON PURPOSE =)