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Toggie
08-01-2006, 16:31
I came across my old copy of Warhammer Siege over xmas, and have been considering playing the "Days of Struggle" campaign within the book over a weekend.

This entails playing several scenarios such as undermining the walls and sallyout out against the war machines before playing the final assault.

they bring up some interesting tactical dilemmas, and some armies are better then others at certain types of siege warfare.

So I was wondering how people would alter their army in defence or when assaulting a castle, and also what they feel the army in general would be good at in a siege.

I play Orcs, Empire and Dark Elves

Orcs could probably swarm a castle very easily, outlasting the defenders and battering down the gates and walls with Giants and Trolls, and in defence T4 troops hitting first are nothing to be sniffed at

Empire are the obvious siege army with the gunline for attack and defence and good cavalry for sallying out and destroying war machines. However they don't really have the brutal killing machines needed to take the walls.

Dark Elves are causing me all sorts of problems, besides taking a lot of siege towers they don't really have anyway of successfully taking a wall. The only way i can see is to take a lot of magic and war machines.
However in defence repeater crossbows must be deadly, and executioners and black guard on the walls are pretty good at causing lots of casualties

Any suggestions

MadJackMcJack
08-01-2006, 16:44
Empire don't have the troops to take the walls, true. But who cares when they can simply knock them down. Plus you're assuming that there's a lot of defenders left on the walls after the gunline is finished.

Keller
08-01-2006, 17:29
I've played Siege with both my Empire and Vampire Counts, as both attacker and defender. I haven't played since I procured a copy of the old siege book though; I will have to get a new game going sometime soon. The walls of the castle are incredibly durable, and few things can seriously hurt them.

Empire is great at either part of a siege game, though I wish mortars didn't require LoS so they could shoot from the courtyard as every other stone-thrower does. When defending, line handgunners on the walls to fire, with Greatswordsmen the section where the enemy is likely to send his best troops; they are quite good at keeping enemies from the walls. Use cannons to take out Siege Towers before they can get to the walls, as they can make a real mess of things. Flagelants, or a good block of spearmen with detachments, can hold the courtyard well for when the gates get smashed in. Few armies can actually drop the walls, and it generally isn't worth trying. For attacking, shooting at the walls with gunners is generally futile, as the hard cover bonus usually has you hitting on 6's or 7's and being hit on 4's. A large unit of Flagelants with a ram can smash the gates, while mortars lob shells onto the ramparts. Free Company with ladders can swarm all over the castle walls, as they are cheap enough to get many units of them. Cannons can knock the walls and towers around, keeping the archers on them from firing, though you would need several concentrated vollies from multiple cannons to try to actually bring the wall down, so you usually end up not having enough time to do so if you play by turns.

VC have it a bit rough in defending the castle. Wights are good at holding the walls, but you can do little to thin the enemy as they advance and greatly outnumber you. With some vampires on the walls, the enemy will have trouble getting the CR to climb onto the ramparts. Send some bats to take out warmachines, and just weather the storm of orther missiles. If you have enough magic, which is tough when you need the fighters and have half the points of the enemy, you can summon zombies on the ground to fight the enemy before the mount the walls, or to rear-charge them when they do. The new Army of Sylvania probably has an easier time in siege defense, due to the 3 grave markers you get to pump out troops, and the crossbow-skeletons to add some ranged power.
In attacking, its a simple case of sending waves of zombies with ladders and rams to mount and smash the walls. You should have magic dominance, so you can just keep summoning and Dansing your troops into position. Bats can be used to take out warmachines and archers on the walls, skirmishing ghouls with hooks can easily slip up over a defense.

Sadly, several armies seem to have been designed to not be able to play a siege game. Bretonians can have trouble, though their longbowmen do wonders in defense, their peasents struggle to defend or climb the walls. Sallying out of the castle with the knights to drive through attacking blocks is usually their best bet.
My newest army, the Ogre Kingdoms are almost completely incapable of a siege game, since large models cannot be on the walls. In defense, one has to rely on gnoblars, without characters to back them, to hold the walls. In attacking, you have to use your expensive models to try to ram down the gates and walls to enter the castle, since again gnoblars are unlikely to surmount the defenses. I'm going to have to try playing as the attackers with the Ogres to see how they would work out, though it does not bode well for them.

Tormentor of Slaanesh
08-01-2006, 18:15
vampires are great at defending. they can summon troops in the way of atttacking units. I agree that knocking down walls is much to difficlut unless you have a huge army or just have lots of cannons.
dark elves you could use harpies and magic. harpies for shooters and magic for everyone else. word of pain could cause you to take a way. just have hordes of warriors with ladders.

Scythe
08-01-2006, 18:50
vampires are great at defending. they can summon troops in the way of atttacking units.

You usually don't have the magical superiority to pull such things off, since the opponent has double your points available...

Toggie
11-01-2006, 08:41
In response to your ogres, the rulebook says that Troll sized models can be put onto the ramparts as infantry so your ogres can go on the battlements, quite a scary prospect really.

Bretonnians defending must be easy as cheap longbowmen and a couple of trebuchets would be nasty. Then you sally out with the knights and break the siege lines to get to the war machines.

Attacking would be a problem, but trebuchets and pegasus knights would be suitable choices with large units of men-at-arms near to small knight units to prevent them running away. You will also have magic advantage and so rain lord would come in useful.
The armies that struggle in siege can always hire dogs of war to try and fill in gaps in the list such as artillery or missile troops, to shock troops. Try Norse Marauders, they are frenzied and the weight of attacks could easily take a wall.

Scythe
11-01-2006, 12:12
Ogres still quite suffer, since they can't use gear to scale the walls. Siege simply isn't designed with them in mind. Some house rules help them a lot tough...

Neknoh
11-01-2006, 20:31
Chaos:

Furies, Screamers, Exalted Daemons, Tzeentch heros on discs and other flying nasties races towards the castle simply to take out artillery and hold up the defenders on the battlements from using any naughty weapons.

Then, commes the infantry, backed by a Hellcannon, the infantry commes in three waves, first, the Beastherds, simply to soak up fire and beat their way onto the ramparts (if any are left when they reach the wall that is), then, commes the Marauders, loads of them, simply to fill out the ramparts with sheer numbers and try to overwhelm the defenders.
Last, commes the Chaos Warriors, armed with Hallberds and Shields and possably marked Khorne, simply to smash appart anything that has managed to withstand the first waves.

In the mean time that the infantry is hammering away, the Knights and Centigors are made ready as a Beastlord in a Beastherd or a Lord of Slaanesh on Steed of Slaanesh is sent forwards with the Bonecrusher Mace to bring down a wall or two

Then, Knights, Centigors, Dragon Ogres and/or Shaggoths storm in through the breach (probably facing bloody death at the hands of cannons and hellblasters if battling the Empire).

If that fails, the Hellcannon is still on the far side of the field and can at least blast up some points before the game ends.

Crazy Harborc
11-01-2006, 21:34
Orcs defending their fortress. Mobs springing forth from hidden doors/gates into the ranks of attackers with ladders. Boiling oil frying those hummie climbers.

When attacking with orcs we agreed to "tool up" the strength of the gobbo operated bolt throwers. We said the heck with it and used the hummies siege towers and battering ram. Sadly, I learned to just leave the Night Goblin wackos with bowling balls at home.

Chuffy
11-01-2006, 21:40
Orcs attacking:

Very cheap rock lobbas, can be used to knock down a wall in a short time.

Cheap tough infantry. Orcs with shields...t4 and only 6 points!

Goblins. Give these guys the most dangerous jobs. They don't cause panic afterall and can be used to draw fire away from your more important units. Basicially send the goblins up a wall first, they get boiling oil thrown on them, most likely they run. However the Blorcs then charge up the wall, no oil for them!

Toggie
12-01-2006, 09:31
On the subject of flying troops, in the old edition flying troops inc characters mounted on them cost double their points and ignored the defended obstacles. Would you say this is applicable in the new edition or not? Its not mentioned in the siege scenario in the rulebook

Scythe
12-01-2006, 13:04
It is not mentioned in the siege scenario, but if I remember correctly it is mentioned in the defended obstacles description that flyers ignore this bonus anyway. For sieges, flyers are still worth their points. Double points, like in previous edition, would be quite fair.

Mad Doc Grotsnik
12-01-2006, 15:43
Personally, my Dark Elf army would suck big ones in a siege.

Chariots and Monsters aren't much good! And my Dragon and Manticore would be very expensive!

Neknoh
12-01-2006, 16:41
That's when you field Warriors en-masse backed up by Black Guard and Executioneers (don't hardly see the point in a Hydra or Reaper)

StarFyre
12-01-2006, 17:40
I think best army to attack a castle/tower or large city is Lizardmen...if you have a large point value and using Lord Kroak.

Ruination of Cities can instantly bring down walls/buildings...

Sanjay

made_of_metal
12-01-2006, 17:49
i find the lizards aren't that great at siege. Kroak is so expensive, the skinks will never hit someone behind a wall and salamaders are just not fair vs the defender. That really leaves you with saurus warriors and korxigors. While saurus can try to take a wall it would be nice to have it thinned out before you get there.

On the defensive again there is a problem with skinks, they will only get one round of shooting in from the wall and anyone can get them off the wall. Saurus are again the backbone for a siege, and saurus characters would do well to stop anyone from scaling the wall. Mind you with no artillery you can't do much about siege towers that start rolling towards you.

Cpt. Drill
12-01-2006, 17:49
I am not sure how well ogres would do in a seige.... the use of yetis would be interesting... but having ogres defending or attack the walls would be quite the ominous subject.... and if your general has the thundermace he could probobly bring a wall down by himself!

I like the idea of your tyrant smashing the gate and the ogres pouring in!

Jim Reaper
12-01-2006, 18:34
I generally find my Dwarfs perform pretty well on either side in a seige.

On the attack, the large number of war machines (with strength boosting runes of course) means the walls will be rubble by the time the foot troops arrive, so no need for ladders or grapples or whatever. Also your opponent gets NO MAGIC WHATSOEVER :evilgrin:

In defence, the troops are great at manning the walls as they rarely lose a combat since numbers are roughly equal and if they do their high Ld keeps things okay. Excellent missile troops mean enemy war machines can be dealt with (or use a gyrocopter or two) and of course they're not too shabby in combat either. Ironbreakers are *fantastic* at holding breaches in the walls, when your opponent is striking them last on a 6 they're even more unshiftable than ever.

Also, molten metal is just *wrong*. It's killing pretty much anything (at least anything with a Toughness of less than 5) on a 2+. I once killed an ENTIRE unit of 20 Grave Guard in a single turn with that.

Cpt. Drill
12-01-2006, 20:58
I think having oath stones in the army will make it BAD ASS at defending!

Fortdeadlykick
12-01-2006, 21:34
My ogres would have their faces handed to them on the attack. Which is why they are happy to surrounf the keeps and eat any plucky vanguard.

They are not bad defenders tho. Kick the crap out of anyone intrepid enough to storm the Defenses of Ethel the Unready.

Keller
12-01-2006, 21:55
I am not sure how well ogres would do in a seige.... the use of yetis would be interesting... but having ogres defending or attack the walls would be quite the ominous subject.... and if your general has the thundermace he could probobly bring a wall down by himself!

I like the idea of your tyrant smashing the gate and the ogres pouring in!

I had been under the impression that Ogres couldn't fight on the walls, mainly due to not having read the rules for quite some time, but Toggie was kind enough to correct me on that. As such, I think Ogres would do pretty well in a siege, even if they lack any real shooting to thin the enemy as they approach. Iron Guts and a Tyrant aren't going to give up a wall easily, especially when they strike first and are hit on 6's. As for their shooting, a Scrap Launcher in the CY would work well, as you can lob the 5" KB template into the enemy ranks, then charge with a decent chance of winning if any enemies make it through the gates/breaches. Hunters and LeadBelchers on the walls can thin the enemy as they approach, then still be quite a handful once engaged. You can even send out hordes of Gnoblars just to annoy the enemy without losing much of your defense! It seems Ogres aren't that bad off in a siege defense afterall!

On the attack though... Ogres would have more than a little trouble. They can't use ladders, and I don't think they could use a Siege Tower, though I don't have the book handy to check. Gnoblars going over the walls would be little more than a distraction, so you would have to send a Bruiser with the Siege Breaker to smash down a wall while your Tyrant kicks in the doors. As for the Yheties, the clarification of the Siege rules (found in the 2002 Annual) states that units cannot ignore the walls (yhetis and ethereal units). As a side note, the walls also block magic, so you couldn't panic defenders or attacks from inside the castle with your Butchers.

Now I really want to play a Siege with my Ogres!

Edit: For a 3K attacking force, a Tyrant with Giant Breaker and Tenderizer backed by a Slaughtmaster (0-1 Tyrant :-() with the Thunder Mace would give you attacks of 8+D3 and 8+D6 for bringing down the walls/gates. The Siege Breaker isn't as impressive as I was thinking, as multiple wound/hit weapons are what you need to hurt the walls.

Timber_Wolf
12-01-2006, 23:15
well, with khemri, an assualt is fairly easy...take 50 bowmen (assuming a 3k game), a high priest, some huge skellie blocks with sige towers and a king with destroyer...he doesn´t need to hit, so that´s 3 dead defenders each turn he´s on the walls...assuming your guys will never run away comes handy, too.
don´t care about breaking walls down, send a unit with a battering ram and a prince to the gates, but htey are merly a suicide attack and will keep any enemy units in the castle...

defending with khemri is something else...as you´ll normlay will have a maximum of 2 rare slots, 2 catapults are handy, together with some bowmen and a nice ushabti unit for the first guys breaking the walls...

Scythe
13-01-2006, 09:15
Chariots and Monsters aren't much good! And my Dragon and Manticore would be very expensive!

Only if you use the 'double points' rule. Otherwise, they are definitely worth their pts cost in gold...

mageith
13-01-2006, 13:56
Only if you use the 'double points' rule. Otherwise, they are definitely worth their pts cost in gold...

High Castle are more than a mere obstacle. Why would anyone think they are mere obstacles? "Obstacles are such things as hedges, fences, walls and fences that troops must clamber over to cross." Troops cannot clamber over a castle wall. It is unassailable.

They are unassailable except by certain methods specifically listed: "Generally speaking, attackers may use ladders, grappling hooks and siege towers to assault walls." (249)

Flyers must land to attack, so they can't even attack models on the ramparts or towers unless there's space on the ramparts for them to land. They can't land and fight in the same turn because of the zone rule.

Unless one says large flyers can see past the ramparts (see over the castle walls), they can't even do it from the sides.

In other words, strictly applying ALL the current rules to the game, Flyers aren't that good.

The siege rules leave lots of room to be desired. They don't deal well with large targets, mounted units, flyers, chariots and Ogre-types a large part of the troop types in the game. They also don't deal well with many war machines such as stone throwers within the castle. Where do you place them that gives Line of Sight?

Cannons, especially great cannons, can take a wall down in a few turns, but then what you have is a pile of rubble which becomes a defended obstacle and the assaulters aren't much better off, except now the flyers can assault them and the defenders no longer get first strike. "The rubble counts as a defended obstacle and hard cover." (253)

In other words, don't expect to play a truly competitive game the first time you play siege. The rules need lots of tweaking and you won't even know half of it until you've actually played it.

As to which armies are good in siege, it all depends on what rules for the units I mentioned above the players agree on. In my last game, I had twelve Ogres and two units of Pikemen defending the walls vs. Beastmen and Zombie pirates. Ogres are great. We even allowed the chargers Minotaurs and Animated Husks to assault the walls. The castle door went fast but the pikemen in the courtyard held out to the end. The sappers, however, took one wall down and the direwolves overran it. In other words, be creative with the rules and have fun.

Avian has a set of rules that he's made for siege. I think they are on this website somewhere. His are better, I'm sure, than what GW has to offer.

Mage Ith

made_of_metal
13-01-2006, 15:52
On a back note the siege breaker is good vs castle walls/gates as it does D6 wounds vs target with no initative.

Toggie
13-01-2006, 16:34
The siege rules leave lots of room to be desired. They don't deal well with large targets, mounted units, flyers, chariots and Ogre-types a large part of the troop types in the game. They also don't deal well with many war machines such as stone throwers within the castle. Where do you place them that gives Line of Sight?
Mage Ith

I thought the idea of Sege was to take your army and put it in a different situation and in some situations the troop types you have mentioned aren't great. Its like Lustria, you don't try and take your heavy armoured knights into a jungle full of swamps. Ogres aside, have troops capable of assaulting a castle, and if you don't then you can hire some Dogs of War.



Cannons, especially great cannons, can take a wall down in a few turns, but then what you have is a pile of rubble which becomes a defended obstacle and the assaulters aren't much better off, except now the flyers can assault them and the defenders no longer get first strike. "The rubble counts as a defended obstacle and hard cover." (253)
Mage Ith

Assaulting a castle was never easy, the defenders are outnumbered two to one and need as many advantages as they can get





In other words, don't expect to play a truly competitive game the first time you play siege. The rules need lots of tweaking and you won't even know half of it until you've actually played it.
Mage Ith

I agree with you here. Siege is not for competitive games and more for set piece battles in campaigns. If you want to play competitively then you should dwap sides and play twice taking the average result. Thats probably fair.



In other words, be creative with the rules and have fun.
Mage Ith

I couldn't agree more ;)

Scythe
13-01-2006, 17:48
High Castle are more than a mere obstacle. Why would anyone think they are mere obstacles? "Obstacles are such things as hedges, fences, walls and fences that troops must clamber over to cross." Troops cannot clamber over a castle wall. It is unassailable.

They are unassailable except by certain methods specifically listed: "Generally speaking, attackers may use ladders, grappling hooks and siege towers to assault walls." (249)

Flyers must land to attack, so they can't even attack models on the ramparts or towers unless there's space on the ramparts for them to land. They can't land and fight in the same turn because of the zone rule.

You know this never even occured to me? I always assumed that flyers just swoop down on the ramparts, picking men from it as they fly by (return of the king style). Either way, even if they can't assault directly, they are still extremely potent. You don't want a terror causing monster landing within your courtyard which starts to roast troops on the ramparts with a breath weapon if you are defeding in a siege.


The siege rules leave lots of room to be desired. They don't deal well with large targets, mounted units, flyers, chariots and Ogre-types a large part of the troop types in the game. They also don't deal well with many war machines such as stone throwers within the castle. Where do you place them that gives Line of Sight?

True, they are more guidelines as rules. Sieges are not ment competive anyway. We made our own set of expanded siege rules, covering several of the types mentioned.


Cannons, especially great cannons, can take a wall down in a few turns, but then what you have is a pile of rubble which becomes a defended obstacle and the assaulters aren't much better off, except now the flyers can assault them and the defenders no longer get first strike. "The rubble counts as a defended obstacle and hard cover." (253)

The assaulters gain full rank bonus, banner and outnumbering to combat resolution score. Units on the ramparts usually don't have any rank or banner, and will break easily, even fighting behind a defended obstacle.

wischhusen
13-01-2006, 23:49
wood elves defneding , they out shot and one my freind playing as empire made a breach charged everyhting into it and meet my warancers on the other side , and couse it was a small breach it was sort of small elite grousp vs small crap groups

Keller
14-01-2006, 00:40
My standard army would actually be great in a siege. Just sit there blasting the enemy with 50 Handgunners and 15 Powerdice a turn in a 24/4k siege. Park the tank in front of the gates, and the enemy will have a hard time getting past it. 4 Cannons and 2 Volley Guns (one on the steam tank) shooting every turn and most of the enemy wont get to the walls. I did play siege once with a 1500pts version of that list (no Stank, no wizard lord, but all the artillery and handgunners under the sun, as well as 3 lv 2 battle wizards with rod of power, orb of thunder). It rocked. Chaos army only had a unit of maraders and a chaos lord assaulting the ramparts by the time they got to me, and the handgunners duly beat them off :D

And I bet the game was little fun for the Chaos player. Broken lists winning isn't really something to be proud of. If you are going to load up on tech, atleast take Engineers instead of mages. Atleast then its not total :cheese:.

Sayu
14-01-2006, 01:25
My Orcs would lose horribly attacking - 202 models with no artillery and no Giants or Trolls. I'd have great fun encircling and swarming the castle though.

On defense they'd do quite well - reasonably hitty and very numerous, although the the pair of Boar Chariots would be somewhat useless.


My Empire would do very well in an siege in either respect. Cannons are great for busting down walls and a couple of units of Knights make great shock troops.

For defending, my Greatswords would be great for holding the line, and the Hellblaster Volley Gun I think would be absolutely terrifying on defence in a siege if placed right.

mageith
14-01-2006, 03:50
The assaulters gain full rank bonus, banner and outnumbering to combat resolution score.

Both sides get this, no?


Units on the ramparts usually don't have any rank or banner, and will break easily, even fighting behind a defended obstacle.
I guess its a matter of how fast they reform. Why would either side necessarily have banners? or not have banners?

mageith
14-01-2006, 03:53
I thought the idea of Sege was to take your army and put it in a different situation and in some situations the troop types you have mentioned aren't great. Its like Lustria, you don't try and take your heavy armoured knights into a jungle full of swamps.

In the only game of Lustria I played we did just this. As did the Conquistadors.

I subscribe to the proposition that you fight with army you have, not with the army you want.

Toggie
14-01-2006, 09:47
The assaulters gain full rank bonus, banner and outnumbering to combat resolution score. Units on the ramparts usually don't have any rank or banner, and will break easily, even fighting behind a defended obstacle.

Just to clarify are you talking about fighting on the ramparts, because when assaulting a wall only casualties count towards combat resolution and the Break test is took on your unmodified Ld.

If you are talking about fighting over a wall then both sides get standards, ranks etc.

Sorry if you already knew this and I read it wrong

Cpt. Drill
14-01-2006, 14:45
The best army is the Lothern Sea Patrol....

As it gets to shoot enemys as if they were in the open befor the game begins... so on the attack 4000pts of models all armed with boys will destroy anything fun for the defenders...

Scythe
14-01-2006, 22:45
Both sides get this, no?

I guess its a matter of how fast they reform. Why would either side necessarily have banners? or not have banners?


Just to clarify are you talking about fighting on the ramparts, because when assaulting a wall only casualties count towards combat resolution and the Break test is took on your unmodified Ld.

If you are talking about fighting over a wall then both sides get standards, ranks etc.

Sorry if you already knew this and I read it wrong

Right, my previous post was a bit confusing.

I ment that, if the wall goes down, the unit which was on the rampart, so now behind the defended obstacle, will break relatively easily, since units originally on the ramparts usually don´t have banners or enough surviving men to form ranks, hence they have little chance of holding the remains of a wall against a full ranked unit.

Of course, the defender could (if he has enough time available) wheel a fully ranked unit from the courtyard into position behind the ruins of the wall, in which case it is a quite even battle, with the advantage for the defender. However, the defender usually only has 1 fully ranked unit in reserve in the courtyard most of the time (or none at all), since the first priority is keeping the walls, and shooting the enemy to bits with missle fire, and the defender needs time to get the unit into position. So there is quite an advantage for the attacker, mainly when treating with several ´breaktroughs´ at once.

Neknoh
14-01-2006, 23:24
Cpt.Drill... that would be HORRIBLE!!!!! After playing a round of games vs a TK army, I have seen what their unmodified hit on 5's bows can do in an equal ammount of points... simply unleashing DOUBLE that before the game would quickly turn a 1 to 2 outnumbered foe into a foe outnumbered at least 1 to 4.

Now I see the true strength of the Lothern Sea Guard

Scythe
15-01-2006, 18:09
It is also so fitting is it? The Lothern Sea Patrol army; the army of your choice when assaulting castles...:p

Abnormally Small Dwarf
18-04-2006, 11:56
I've searched this thread and have found no mention of dwarfs in a siege!
Obviously they'd prefer to be down the pub or underground mincing greenskins...but...assuming they found a pub in a castle and then some inconsiderate fools came to interupt their drinking what would they do to defend themselves?
(as they were just looking for a pub they forgot all their atrillary!)

Crazy Harborc
18-04-2006, 22:11
In several past sieges, we let the Dwarves start closer to the fortress. They ran out of steam/game turns before they had a chance to get on/thru the walls and grab part of a courtyard and or wall.

Sureshot05
24-04-2006, 15:18
In our siege games we have several house rules tailored for each army in order to allow them to play.

Having got the old siege rulebook and read the new rules a few examples of the rules we have currently are:

Ogre Kingdoms are allowed to buy ladders for twice the price - obviously an ogre is gonna want to make a ladder that is his size.

Flyers - 2 unit limit and double cost. This was inspired however by a friends Bretonnian army which having failed to storm the walls three times took so many pegasi that it was silly. Was great fun though!

Goblin only armies - banned panic for both sides, makes for a very interesting game. Goblins are not allowed a single non-goblin unit or character (no giants, no trolls, no wolves etc) if they wish to use this rule. This is our most popular rule, as it leads to Helm's Deep-esque games. Occasionally it favors the goblins (but not that often) but it is just great fun!

We also have some advice for those armies which have a hard time. In particular the Brettonians need to have both Trebutchets and Pegasi in abundance if they are to stand a chance in a Siege game played by the booklet. However, once the wall or the gate goes, those knights come into there own and can devastate most of the defenders.

The main thing with siege games is to talk it through with your opponent at the start and see what you both think will make for the most fun game. If your opponent wants to play it strictly by the rules then every army has to have a lot of tailoring before it can consider sieging the building, but if your both flexible you can do all sorts of crazy games.

Hope that gives some food for thought.

Pravus
24-04-2006, 16:01
Ultimate siege attacking tool is the ratling gun. It autohits so all the defenders on the battlements might as well be standing in an open field ... in their pyjamas.

Gaming obscenities aside, I reckon my standard Chaos army would fair pretty well on either the attack or the defence. I've got the numbers - beastherds and marauder infantry, I have a decent magic phase (utilising shadow) and a chaos lord with a big hitting stick . Once the gate is open, the chaos knights charge in for the kill. In fact the only unit that wouldn't see much action is my beloved marauder cavalry but then I guess they could use a holiday.

Scythe
25-04-2006, 08:42
Ultimate siege attacking tool is the ratling gun. It autohits so all the defenders on the battlements might as well be standing in an open field ... in their pyjamas.


But then... in what situation the ratling gun isn't the ultimate attacking tool in general?

:p

Pravus
25-04-2006, 09:14
True - but I just thought I'd mention it as it completely negates any advantage the defenders might have ergo it is the ultimate siege attacking weapon. I guess you could say the same for Organ guns and Hellblasters too but they're not as freely available as ratling guns.

Autohitting is ridiculous. As an aside, I reckon auto hit weapons should generate a number of attacks, even if they hit on a 2+ as standard, and then apply the normal shooting to hit modifiers.

Scythe
25-04-2006, 09:41
I agree that autohit weapons really mess up a game of siege. We thought of some solutions for this, maybe apply the -2 to hit modifier for hard cover to the number of hits caused instead?

Toggie
25-04-2006, 09:58
What is the range of the ratling gun? If its less then 24" and as far as I know its move and fire, surely its gonna take a few turns to get into position to fire on the walls, more than enough time to take it out.
Also the Helblaster and Organ Gun are only 24" range and in a Siege you set up 24" from the castle, but all the troops are an inch away from the wall so you will be out of range, more than enough time to either shoot it, magic it, or block it with flyers, light cavalry.
They are powerful I agree, but not an unsolvable problem.
Id be more scared of spells like Brain Bursta, or Chillwind as they are much more mobile and can autohit as well.

Scythe
25-04-2006, 10:18
You can't target the ratling gun in close proximity to units, as it follows the character targeting rules then. And it has 15" range if I remember correctly, so one 10" march brings you within range.

Crazy Harborc
25-04-2006, 20:37
So, a ratling gun is treated like a character not like a war machine?? Glad no regular opponent does rats.......so far.

Scythe
26-04-2006, 12:26
Yes they are, as long as they are within 3" of their parent unit. Which makes them extremely hard to get rid of.

It is probably another reason why so many people hate ratling guns so much...