View Full Version : Kitting out Empire State Troops

07-08-2009, 04:04
I am just "restarting my empire army and was wondering which is the best way to kit out my state troops i.e. Halbards, spears, swords and shields??? Which is best to use? I want to know this before I built up all of my new models, so any help you guys can give would be great. Thanks in advance...

Also one more thing for pistoliers I see that they can either be outriders or pistoliers, unless I am mistaken. Anyway which should I make with those? Which would be the best?

07-08-2009, 04:48
Speaking simply based on what I have seen (as my Empire army is all Knights), I find Pistoleers FAR more common that Outriders, as they can still pump out a lot of shots without taking as many big penalties, and using their Fast Cav rules can generally stay safe while doing it. I think they're also cheaper, which is nice, given that the unit has NO survivability if the enemy gets missiles on them.

I see mostly swordsmen for State troops, as the WS 4 is a big difference maker against a lot of things, as is the 4+ save...they seem to be most often combined with cheap detatchments of Halberdiers, as the S4 helps on the counter-charge, particularly when the enemies can't fight with HW/Shield to the flank.

That's just based on what I have seen anyways. I use one block of spears with a detatchment of Halberds and a detatchment of handgunners for my single block of infantry in my list, but only because they're cheaper than Swordsmen. Most of the time I just fight Handweapon/Sheild anyways, as the extra 5 WS3, S3 attacks aren't usually worth it.

Commodus Leitdorf
07-08-2009, 10:41
Well first you need to know that from most people you'll read here you'll find that the answer is "swordsmen, only Swordsmen" for the reason that they have WS 4 and the best Armour save in CC to any of the Empire state troops. This is good because it mean they die less, thus giving less combat resolution and making it easier to hold/maybe win combat.

The truth however is that ALL state troops are made of equal amounts of suck. The actual difference between the performance of State Troops is quite negligable. WS 4 doesn't help when you oppenent has WS 5, or hatred to offset his low WS, or high enough strength to blow through your save anyway. I personally use spears because it gives me the option of either going Hand weapon and shield, or using the spears for more attacks against weaker units (or strong units with low T and low saves...Black Guard come to mind in this case)

As a general rule though, avoid halberds unless its a detachment. They die to quickly and unless they charge and have a Warrior Priest with them they tend to not kill all that much.

As for Pistoliers/Outriders. They are very different units. My Pistoliers give people headaches running around them and unloading lead. March blocking and being a nuisance are highly recommended so I suggest atleast having one unit of them (though dont expect them to survive a battle...they can draw alot of hate :angel:)

Outriders are a different cup of tea. They are great flank protectors and the lead they can lay down it quite impressive. Putting them opposite your opponents big scary unit of Knights is a way to keep them away from the main fight as he tries to get them out of their firing arch. But again, once your opponent experiences volleys from them he will make sure to deal with them quick (and a stiff breeze can knock these guys out).

anyway, hope this helps (if there are any spelling mistakes im sorry. I just got up and haven't had coffee yet:D)


07-08-2009, 11:56
I'm one of those people that would usually champion the cause of only taking Swordsmen.
However, I think Commodus is right that Spearmen might be a better (or equally good) choice for your main blocks since a lot of armies have WS5 troops these days, so the option of getting more attacks from the spears is nice.
As for detachments however, Swordsmen are by far the best option available. I'm at a loss as to why so many people insist on using Halberdiers or Free Company as detachments, since they won't kill much anyway and against some opponents they'll just provide free CR with their 6+ armour save.

You want your detachments to provide +1 CR from flanking and to negate your opponents rank bonus, which means that the objective of the detachments is to stay at least 5 models strong for as long as possible, and there is no other choice that fulfills this objective as weell as Swordsmen.

As for Outriders vs. Pistoliers, Commodus is spot on;)

07-08-2009, 13:05
Ok thanks guys, I was told to repost this in empire tactica so I will post this there and that makes this thread doa. Thanks for the replies...

07-08-2009, 14:07
Its all based on preferences I guess. I like spearmen parent units with a detachment of halberds, mainly because halberds are fluffy and can use either HW+S or a halberd depending on the opponent. Most people on here swear by swordsmen, since there is a greater chance that the enemy will hit on 4s rather than 3s, and you save with a 4+ AS rather than a 5+ AS.

If you want a compromise between the two maybe go for a spearman parent unit and a detachment of swordsmen, since only one rank can attack when the detachment countercharges, and the better WS and AS will mean the detachment will survive longer, giving that all important CR, flank, Unit Strength greater than 5 (to negate ranks).