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Cpt. Drill
07-08-2009, 14:47
This isnt really a question that gets raised very often in warmaster which is incredibly hard to powergame or abuse the rules. But I played an out of town warmaster player who is a regular tournement goer and he called me a cheat and a powergamer.

The reason he was so mad was because in 200opts of skaven I was using 20 units of ratswarms. Giving my army a respectably high break point (i think it was 17 in this game) When playing we take it in turns to deploy brigdes and I start the game by deploying about 10 units of rat swarms individually across my deployment zone. This ment even though he had Tomb Kings he had deployed most of his forces befor I had put down any real units allowing me to mmatch up things like Plaguemonks against his brigades of skeletons and rat ogres against his cavelry and chariots.

With every unit that he got destroyed and every combot lost he griped more and more about how unfairly I played...

Now im not sure if im lying to myself claiming not to be dirty saying things like "oh its characterful for skaven to have lots of rats and to only attack where they wnt to". am I deluding myself? Or was the guyn just sour because he is used to winning and lost to a scruffy student with several pockets filled with rats?


Does anyone know of any dirty warmaster tricks or had similar experiences ?

UlricDarksoul
07-08-2009, 18:20
i haven't played warmaster *yet* but as i've looked at the game, in here it is far more important the deployment phase than in other games. He probable is used to deploy his squellies last, as they are a lot, but you've got more this time and had the advantage.

The thing is, if he is a bad loser then is not your fault. Now, the question that really matters, what would be YOUR answer in his shoes? Would you have called a cheater or powergamer a guy that would do what you did? try thinking as he did, do not give me an answer just for giving it.

Cpt. Drill
08-08-2009, 00:56
That is a good way to look at it and I would have been fine, im used to being out deployed with my chaos having to put down important units whilst my opponent lays down chaff. I think its because I have never even thought that it was an issue that I was so suprised to hear objections.

fracas
08-08-2009, 02:15
did you complain about the fact that he could raise more units and you couldn't? ;)

Steel Legion for Life
08-08-2009, 03:24
Or complain about the doom and despair spell? It's nigh-impossible to win against tomb kings once someone on the ball with that spell works out how to use it properly.

The dirtiest warmaster tricks involve attacking units flanks instead of fronts as a habit (easy with the high high moves you have available, especially with LD10 armies) and "clipping" using cavalry/chariots.

This clipping comes about as the rules say to maximise YOUR frontage, not enemy frontage, meaning chariot units in particular can engage 1-2 stands rather than the 3+ you'd normally expect.

Cpt. Drill
08-08-2009, 13:32
I have to say dealing with 'clippers' is why I stopped playing warhammer. Whenever we play warmaster we always maximise the units in combat for both sides, this causes minour changes in how the game is played but overall makes for much friendlier battles and less squabbling.

azraelezekiel
11-08-2009, 15:40
Got to say I have never had a problem with how anyone deploys.
It usually takes 3 rounds to get into combat so you can do a fair bit of manouvering if you are lucky.

As for taking 20 units of rats, good on you ;)
We have people like that at the local club, how great they are until a newbie kicks their butt.
Part of the reason I play with mates who don't mind getting beaten (7 weeks on the trot ;)) but also hand out the grief when they win :)

A good general helped by good dice rolls can overcome anything!

Cpt. Drill
11-08-2009, 21:09
Another reason I would say using so many rat swarms isnt to dirty is my breakpoint is 17, with 20 ratswarms in the army.... Killing 17 rat swarms is an easy thing to accomplish... even goblins or skeletons charging them will usually win! (I guess its why they are the cheapest unit in the game) To often I throw rats away at the beggining of the game and then later I am really trying to keep them away from anything vaugely killy.

Oh we tried skaven against the new norse list... Norse are really broken.

UlricDarksoul
02-09-2009, 15:26
how so? i've heard that they are a little over the top, but please, specify.

Cpt. Drill
03-09-2009, 01:36
Okay, we tried out a few games with them. Me and a regular opponent who are of very close skill levels I would say most of our games end in draws (and they are some quite competative games), every game the norse got a massicar and we used a few different armies, chaos, skaven, tombkings. After the first game where no one was effected by super luck or anything we were both quietly impressed then soo it turned to silliness. The Huscarls are an incredible unit for very cheap and it seems an important part of the list (both of us used as many units of them as possible). As I was nothing to do with the development team I dont know for certain or anything but I suspect the idea for them was to have an infantry heavy army that overcomes its weakness of not great cavelry by having infantry that can happily tackle enemy cavelry. I think this just makes a list that is great at dealing with infantry armies and will suffer against a heavy cavelry army.

We tested this idea and saw that an almost entirely cavelry based Bretonnian army destroyed it.

Now this seems to me like a broken list. Instead of having an army that is balanced and can play all other armies it appears that this one is great against 85% and just gets brutally smashed by the other 15%.

I really like actual norse mythology (thats why this is the only army we tested, because I own a large norse warmaster ancients army) I also really like the idea of the northern tribes from Warhammer and there is some great background for them. This list trys to combine them both and seems to be made by a player who really likes norse and has been a little overgenerous for them. I think I would have made the list quite differently to this one, maybe have to option to make a very infantry heavy army (lessen the huscarls though) or be able to take a more nomadic Hun approach with lots of lightly armoured bowmen and some medium cav for the shock units. I like the mammoth, its very cool (I really like GIANT monsters) and some of the other fruitier units are fun aswell. I would definatly ditch the Valkyries I dont like the idea of them turning up to every fight the norse get into.


I am open to the idea of this army its just I think it needs reworking to make it fair, I have to say though with warmaster being in theory such a simple game with a limited statline for your troops its hard to get so many variations when it comes to lists without having more and more wacky special rules. This army needs to try hard to avoid turning into orcs with a leadership 9 general or just a chaos army with no knights.

Shrapnelsmile
12-09-2009, 01:54
The only thing I can add is that it doesn't sound particularly fun to fight. But then again, undead are incredibly frustrating too. I don't mind losing, but if I set up a special match with a new player I would have been a bit dissapointed in what I was facing.

TheNurglitch
02-12-2009, 17:58
The reason he was so mad was because in 200opts of skaven I was using 20 units of ratswarms.

You know I played against Skaven and I have never faced 20 swarms.
That`s a high number and brings out the problem of swarmmaster - fielding lots of cheap units with which you flood your opponents.

But since your opponent played the Undead he could have fielded lots of Skeletons. Hence his cries seem to be unfair. He played poorly, he lost.
As someone earlier posted, a lot of things can be overcome with a good battle plan.

Lemonbrick
07-01-2010, 11:23
I have played the swarm army with my o&g its intimidating but not unstopable.

The only issue I had playing was when 2 death frenzy's were put on 1 rat swarm, effectively giving an 30 point unit suside 2d6 extra attacks.....