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ARabidNun
07-08-2009, 19:41
I saw a similar post for warmaster and thought I would like to hear the WHFB version.

What is the best "surprise" you had awaiting for your unsuspecting opponent? And did it come to fruition as you hoped, or simly fizzle into disappointment.

The last game I played, was a fun game at 1000 points and I chose to use an all goblin army against a khornate WoC. I knew there was little chance of winning or even coming close so decided to prepare some "surprises" for my opponent. My most preferred one was giving my designated general the brimstone bauble. I hid him in a unit of NG archers and eventually was charged by a giant, a unit of warriors and a chariot in the same phase. To my horror, the chaos champion failed to kill him in the challenge and at the end of the combat phase I was left with a BSB and my general. The unit fled, was caught by the warriors and only managed 2 mortalities from the following explosion.

At the beginning of the turn I had the giant and the unit of warriors in base contact with the general, but the plan dissolved as my expectations of a glorious goblin death resulted in a goblin wonder.

Alas, goblins are as unpredictable as rabid hamsters.

Urgat
07-08-2009, 20:05
Mmh, iirc, the babbles don't work while fleeing. Got owned by that, I tried a goblin on charriot with them, well, guess what? My opponent focused all his attacks on the charriot thinking my gob would have big saves or something and would be harder to kill. So my gob stood there totally unharmed, but also totally beaten CR wise, ran, got overrun, and so the babble was useless.

Drakcore Bloodtear
07-08-2009, 21:32
The best I have is the first time I used nets against an Empire army the confusion when I rolled and then I look on his face whe told him he needed 5's to wound me :P

Dungeon_Lawyer
08-08-2009, 10:13
funny how all the dirty tactics thus far belong to goblins!!!! Hopefully the all goblins list will become more viable again comenext armybook. They are a lot of fun to play with and against .

Condottiere
08-08-2009, 10:28
I think there are shades of dirty tricks, though they could be defined as taking advantage of the rules or loopholes therein, or just clever tactics:

1. Netters, not really a dirty trick, just using the troop options as they were intended

2. Moving an enemy unit within but out of LoS of a fanatic euipped NG unit, with either terrain or an Orc unit in between, good tactical positioning

3. Charging HE archers, who flee through a ItP Banner equipped unit of Swordsmen than they were screening, leaving your primary unit open to counter charging, good tactical foresight

4. Screening unit forced to charge decoy unit, exposing primary unit to missile fire

and so on.

Von Wibble
08-08-2009, 10:41
I used Daemons of Slaanesh against lizardmen.

He had 2 meaty saurus units, both in a line, next to each other, opposite 2 units of Daemonettes. One unit of Daemonettes had a herald with Siren Song - this one was on my right. (btw, I only had 1 siren song in the whole army).

I knew that even charging, one on one, the daemonettes would lose to the saurus, and support was badly needed.

So I moved into charge range, and used Siren Song on the unit of Saurus on the left. The unit charged in, completely blocking the other Saurus nuit's charge arc and LOS. I held thanks to stubborn banner and pummeled him with Fiends in the side.

Simply using the Siren song on a different unit to the one he expected caused disruption to more than 1 unit.

The other one was when I charged 5 Dragon princes into Manfred von Carstein, leading 9 black knights, and then in my movement phase moved my foot prince with white sword and talisman of loec (KB and reroll to hit and wounds in one round) and his unit of swordmasters up directly behind this combat.

The dragon princes killed a couple of knights but unsurprisingly still lost and fled (fear and outnumber made this very likely). Because he had hatred fromhis magic banner, he had to pursue straight into my lord, conveniently blocking a flank charge he had set up, and leading to Manfred being beheaded in his next turn (with no ward save and several wounds KB is Manfred's key weakness). I had to ride out a storm of magic in his magic phase before this oc, but it was still only turn 2 and I had a couple of scrolls.

Arguleon-veq
08-08-2009, 14:28
Not sneak tricks but nice little combos with my Chaos Army.

I have a Nurgle and Slaanesh Wizard. Nothing like casting Curse of the Leper on a unit and then hittingthem with Seizures. Units of 30, 4+ Ward Horrors. 20Dead ETC.

I also always run a Death Wizard who has 3 spells, I love popping a unit with Doom and Darkness and then hitting them with a Hellcannon to make them test for panic on -4.

Nuada
08-08-2009, 14:39
I surprized an opponent with a unit of 59 night goblin archers (10 wide, 6 deep) At the time he didn't know that all my ranks could shoot at a large target. I had a NG BSB in the unit with a banner that makes all their attacks poisonous. Image his shock as i first move into range of his Star Dragon, then showed him the rule that gives me 59 shots, and then explaining that they're all poisonous :p The goblins killed the Dragon and Prince. Bit of a one trick pony, only ever done that once. Worth it just to roll 59 dice.

The other tricks are really obvious ones. A lion chariot and unit of 8 Dragon Princes with BSB carrying battle banner charging my orc boyz. Used the old "death throes" trick with fanatics going through my orcs, and making him land on the little fellas. After 6d6 fanatic hits only the BSB was left, and he then fled.

Harwammer
08-08-2009, 14:40
Chaos sorceror lord on khorne chariot. Axe of Khorne for KB, lore of heavens for rerolls. The Blood God makes exceptions for this guy :)

chippyman64
08-08-2009, 15:50
"shadowblade" - do i need to say any more, the ultimate surprise.

Kayosiv
08-08-2009, 19:57
"shadowblade" - do i need to say any more, the ultimate surprise.

He was dressed as a skeletal archer the WHOLE TIME!

Von Wibble
08-08-2009, 21:07
Well, it might be even harder for him to pretend he's a witch elf...

Or a Squig Hopper.

snottlebocket
08-08-2009, 21:22
Well, it might be even harder for him to pretend he's a witch elf...

Or a Squig Hopper.

Imagine da boss' surprise when da sneaky bugger rose up from the snotlings!

Zujara
08-08-2009, 21:31
My opponent underestimating the damage my squig herd could do, had his vampire general on a flying steed alone nearby when they got broken, and the running amok got him killed. My other is a goblin on a wolf with the one hit wunda and the brimstone bauble, he's got several character kills under his belt.

F0r54k3n
08-08-2009, 23:40
He was dressed as a skeletal archer the WHOLE TIME!

He managed to disguise himself as a Flamer in my game the other day. Thats one badass disguise!

SlaaneshSlave
09-08-2009, 00:02
Chaos sorceror lord on khorne chariot. Axe of Khorne for KB, lore of heavens for rerolls. The Blood God makes exceptions for this guy :)
Don't character & chariot need to have the same mark still?

GenerationTerrorist
09-08-2009, 01:21
The Chariot can be unmarked if a Character has a mark. But if you mark a Chariot, then the Character has to have the same mark to ride it.

That is my understanding of the rule, anyway!

Whaagnomore
09-08-2009, 01:31
Not that ive ever used it(since i dont play DE), the by far most sneaky and disgustingly rotten trick must be the 1:st turn assassin/shade charge. Simply buy an assassin for a shade group, scout em out in a forest/out of sight just outside the 10" requirement, at turn one, declare that theres an assassin in the group, put him so he has LoS and is slightly within 10", charge, hear your opponent grind his teeth...

Sarah S
09-08-2009, 04:42
The Chariot can be unmarked if a Character has a mark. But if you mark a Chariot, then the Character has to have the same mark to ride it.

That is my understanding of the rule, anyway!

Yes, it just can't be 2 different marks. Since no mark is not a mark, that's a legitimate combination.

Boondock
09-08-2009, 05:33
I have used the VC item Hand of Dust a couple of times in pretty key situations.

Well, looks like that particular Vampire is going to di... wups, 8 Strength 5 hits....

fubukii
09-08-2009, 05:42
my favorite is a assassin with manbane/rune of khaine in a unit of spear elves with armor piercing.

I love being flank charged by knigths to have him shave a 2-3 models off before blows are struck then i win combat :)

ARVO
09-08-2009, 14:07
My first ever game against High Elves I fielded a unit of five wraiths. 250 points. I asked my opponent if silver helms had magical attacks, and he truthfully said no. Well imagine my suprise when he charged the wraiths and declared that he had some item in the unit that made all of their attacks magical. 250 points wiped out by 5 silver helms 0__o. Lesson? Always consider if the enemy has a magic item.

Not a dirty tactic, but definately a "Crap I didnt see that coming" moment.

Boondock
09-08-2009, 18:01
If the High Elves Special unit has a hero in the unit or a champion for that matter, always consider the possibility of magical attacks.

yarrickson
09-08-2009, 18:12
My favourite ever dirty trick was in a game of Vampire Counts V Empire. I was merely watching alas and not part of this most sneaky of tricks. The Empire player got first turn, marched forward two units of 20 state troops, one with an arch-lector and the other with a battle wizard with the lore of shadow and a warrior priest.

First magic phase, the arch lector makes himself unbreakable, the VC player doesnt dispel cause unbreakable dont matter when your 16 or 17" away. Then the warrior priest casts re-rolls to hit and to wound on the arch-lector. Same again, why waste dispel dice on that right. Then the shadow wizard casts steed of shadows and states that he will use it to charge the unit of 12 black nights with the vampire lord.


The VC player considers, fairly sure he's about to see Van horstmanns speculum. But with a combat res of 5 and a 2 up armour save he's not concerned, lets the Arch-Lector fly in.

A minute later the Vampire Lord is dead. He'd never considered that sword of Fate. The arch lector had hit him with 4 re-rolled hits and wounds on a 2 plus with a re-roll no armour saves doing D3 wounds.

Game Over. Seven or eight minutes max. Dirtiest thing I ever saw in Warhammer. :D

Nuada
09-08-2009, 19:37
Was a while ago, but i've seen a game undead v's empire. For deployment the undead player deployed one wizard behind a wood, everyone else was in reserve.
First turn he casts the spell wind of death. Every model on the battlefield takes a str3 hit, no armour saves. That killed half the empire army

Boondock
09-08-2009, 19:55
He did that entirely wrong then. You roll a dice for each unit on the table, on a 4+ they take a wound no armor saves.

Not each model.

Nuada
09-08-2009, 20:32
He did that entirely wrong then. You roll a dice for each unit on the table, on a 4+ they take a wound no armor saves.

Not each model.

i think it was right...... you're quoting another spell, it wasn't vampire counts, it was undead. That's why i said "it was a while ago..." :)

Veloxnex
10-08-2009, 00:03
Dark elves:
Cold One knights, Banner of ASF. Add one BSB with Hydra banner and halberd.
Place enticeingly in front of chaos knights.
Cackle as they recieve a bucket load of casulties.

that or AP cold ones from the banner of murder mmmmmmm

Von Wibble
10-08-2009, 13:07
My favourite ever dirty trick was in a game of Vampire Counts V Empire. I was merely watching alas and not part of this most sneaky of tricks. The Empire player got first turn, marched forward two units of 20 state troops, one with an arch-lector and the other with a battle wizard with the lore of shadow and a warrior priest.

First magic phase, the arch lector makes himself unbreakable, the VC player doesnt dispel cause unbreakable dont matter when your 16 or 17" away. Then the warrior priest casts re-rolls to hit and to wound on the arch-lector. Same again, why waste dispel dice on that right. Then the shadow wizard casts steed of shadows and states that he will use it to charge the unit of 12 black nights with the vampire lord.


The VC player considers, fairly sure he's about to see Van horstmanns speculum. But with a combat res of 5 and a 2 up armour save he's not concerned, lets the Arch-Lector fly in.

A minute later the Vampire Lord is dead. He'd never considered that sword of Fate. The arch lector had hit him with 4 re-rolled hits and wounds on a 2 plus with a re-roll no armour saves doing D3 wounds.

Game Over. Seven or eight minutes max. Dirtiest thing I ever saw in Warhammer. :D

But if you have the sword of fate you have to declare it at the start of the game as well as its target - the rules state "at the beginning of the battle, nominate one enemy charter or monster" So I don't think such a trick would work as the vamp player would know the arch lector has it, and that it was set to targetting that vampire lord. And his champion could have always challenged in the combat phase, letting him dispel the prayers next turn in his magic phase, resurrect the champ, and splat the lector through combat res.

Veloxnex - Are you seriously claiming 4 S5 and 11 S4 attacks removes bucketloads of Chaos Knights? I think the average is to kill 3 and then lose about the same to the return attacks - and that assumes no characters or marks in the chaos knight unit. Charging in is by far better - that's why the ASF banner should go on infantry.

Nuada - No spell I am aware of has ever been that powerful. Unless you are referring to 3rd edition or earlier, someone has the rules wrong.

Boondock - If my high elves are facing vampires I often do this with my dragon princes. Last time they charged a wraith unit, and promptly lost 5 of their number to the banshees stand and shoot. The champion then failed his panic check, despite me having sounded the dragonhorn that turn.

I somehow still clawed a draw out of that game.

Nuada
10-08-2009, 18:46
Nuada - No spell I am aware of has ever been that powerful. Unless you are referring to 3rd edition or earlier, someone has the rules wrong. .

yeah 3rd ed..... hence having alot of his army in reserve (you nominated which turn they came on)



Just out of interest. When you nominate an enemy character for the sword of fate, can't you write it down on a piece of paper? or do you have to declare your chosen target?

snottlebocket
10-08-2009, 20:53
Not very effective since it's still only a goblin but fluff wise as dirty as they get.

goblin lord
sneaky skewerer (additional -3 armoursave)
amulet of protectyness (use the opponents armour and ward save)
tricksy trinket (models in base contact aren't allowed to use their wards)

It's fun going ner ner while using your opponents armour and wardsave while denying him the use of them. Unfortunately it's still just a goblin and most enemy characters don't need those things to whoop his can.

shartmatau
10-08-2009, 21:27
while playing daemons i always had fun with a mounted herald of slanesh with siren song standing right next to a keeper of secrets. Forcing the enemy to charge both of them, a fairly easy win for the combat.

puppetmaster24
10-08-2009, 21:42
Not very effective since it's still only a goblin but fluff wise as dirty as they get.

goblin lord
sneaky skewerer (additional -3 armoursave)
amulet of protectyness (use the opponents armour and ward save)
tricksy trinket (models in base contact aren't allowed to use their wards)

It's fun going ner ner while using your opponents armour and wardsave while denying him the use of them. Unfortunately it's still just a goblin and most enemy characters don't need those things to whoop his can.

nah the best is amulet of protectyness (opponent ward and armour) triksy trinket (no wards) and shagas screamin sword, in a challenge with the enemy general it is the single most deadly goblin in the world because you would have at least 5 strenght 5 attacks with no ward saves aloud. i have seen it tear greater deamons a new one. :evilgrin:

HellRaid
10-08-2009, 22:01
Using the Hand of Dust spell from the last Vampire Counts book, I charged a stegadon with my necromancer general alone and killed it with one attack.

Risky, but hilarious. He never saw it coming ;)

Red_Duke
10-08-2009, 22:22
aah, the old hand of dust. Good times... :D

Being on the receiving end, id say the most unexpected thing i encountered was an Ogre butcher with that great weapon that gives him +3 St. Charge in with a TK chariot unit, thinking 'well, he can't possibly have any S7 in there given the models are all base S4, what could go wrong?' 30 seconds later, no more chariot unit. bummer...

TheSanityAssassin
11-08-2009, 05:22
NOT praying with Bretonians. I don't think it's particularly dirty or tricksy, but opponents tend to no even consider that you wouldn't. I've killed Greater Daemons and Dragon Characters that way, having them deploy in the open expecting turn 1 with no problem to go hide. I chance the dice off, go first, and hit the big nasty with a stone thrower and 50 bows.

I love the "what do you mean you rolled a 6? I go first against Bretonnians...."

That said, if they roll to go first anyways, you've given up your Ward Saves, so you have to be very careful pulling it.

Mid'ean
11-08-2009, 13:03
Playing as VC and setting up as a normal bunker list and then putting my Lord with scouting in his back field. On turn 1 he was joined by a flying hero, bats and wolves, raising zombies with sceptre....Created a hole lota fun behind his lines. Poor guy didn't know which way to turn......:wtf:

Other time was playing O&G. Letting loose 6 fanatics and then casting a WAAGGHH next turn. Turning all of them into homing torpedoes.

yarrickson
11-08-2009, 19:50
But if you have the sword of fate you have to declare it at the start of the game as well as its target - the rules state "at the beginning of the battle, nominate one enemy charter or monster" So I don't think such a trick would work as the vamp player would know the arch lector has it, and that it was set to targetting that vampire lord. And his champion could have always challenged in the combat phase, letting him dispel the prayers next turn in his magic phase, resurrect the champ, and splat the lector through combat res.

Doesn't mean you have to tell your opponent surely, we just write it on a peice of paper and reveal it at the appropriate moment, or have we been using it wrong? Same thing we do with the bane head?

Also the champion wasnt in base contact, the Arch Lector (on a 20mm base) only has to contact two models the VLord and the Black NightUnit Standard that was next to him.

cr8fulloh8full
12-08-2009, 07:46
I must say that the dirtyist thing I've ever done was with a chosen chaos unit in my tzeench army. I was going up against some empire at 2250 and the guy had a steam tank, I had no shaggoths so I thought I was screwed. I always give my chosen champion the book of secrets so he's a lvl tzeentch spell caster so he's at +1 to cast, I got lucky and got flaming sword so I thought that would be nice. I charged the steam tank with 6 chosen hopeing to kill it (without great weaopns, this would be tough) in the magic phase I was attempting to cast flaming sword and failed, now what I did next made my opponent question my sanity and my stratedgy.... cause I used the black tounge from my sorcerer to make me miscast!! (Yes I know, this is bizarre!!?) Because I only roll 1d6 this made for a chance to get a low result (usualy the bad ones!) I rolled a 4 but I used the infernal puppet and got a 3 on the d3 so I changed it to a 2. This meant all things in base contact look a str8 hit with no armour saves and the mage died, but, because the steamtank is a war machine it instantly killed it? I only lost a 65 pt chosen champ and 1 other... I think that was worth it!!! Don't ever question when someone does something crazzy like that!

wamphyri101
12-08-2009, 09:10
Sadly I dont think that the Steam tank counts as a warmachine for the 1 shot str 7 instant kill so that trick shouldnt have worked

tricker53
12-08-2009, 09:14
miners and an anvil. 'dwarfs can charge!?'

or strollaz + longbeard rangers + anvil.

heck i think anvil in general. while your average opponent most likely did picture an anvil in any dwarf list, most dont know how much dirtiness it can deal. gotta love making barded cavalry slower than your average man.

25 ranked up longbeard rangers with throwing axes parked in front of a large target. booyah!

ive always wanted to try a dwarf lord on shieldbearers with a shield with MR challenge, MR swiftness, R might, R snorri spanglehelm and R resistance in a large hammerer unit against non-ItP dragons or stegadons. . . he might only have 4 attacks (besides his shieldbearers), but theyll usually be 2+ hit 2+ wound with -5 armour, and he goes first. but if thats not enough, he can fall back on a 1+ rerollable and his unit of stubborn great weaponers.

ARabidNun
12-08-2009, 09:34
cr8fulloh8full - As for the Steam Tank, Str 8 hit, that only applies to models classified as chariots due to their fragile frame. Otherwise, Steam Tanks could not move through difficult terrain without suffering damage.

I am interested in hearing if anyone has tried the shield bearer/ Hammerer unit. I play Dwarfs (not lately with the new rules :( ) but I would imagine my opponent would try to tar pit that unit since it has ALOT of points sunk into it, and probably hit it with something that ignores armor saves.

As for the goblin lord, I can't wait to try that on a great squig against a greater Demon. Should be a hoot.

Archon.42
12-08-2009, 10:02
that exact set up for the goblin warlord is amazing
i tried it out a few times, killed arhcaon and astrogoth with him
AWESOME (H)
.42

catbarf
12-08-2009, 20:09
Chaos Dwarf Blunderbuss plus Earthshaker. My opponent had a big, expensive unit of 25 Chaos Warriors about 10" away from the Blunderbusses, so I moved up a little and fired. Then the Earthshaker hit. Thanks to the ES, he was at half move, but because he was within 8" he couldn't march. The Warriors moved up a pitiful 2", and every turn my Blunderbusses would about-face, move 1.5", then about-face again.

Basically, 300pts of Chaos Dwarf units were able to utterly vaporize a 25-strong unit of Chaos Warriors in just three turns, with the Warriors only coming .5" closer per turn.

It's a very, very mean trick.

tricker53
13-08-2009, 11:29
stupid double posts, my nets being a bastard.

tricker53
13-08-2009, 11:33
sounds like wood elves to me.

i played an empire guy who had no idea what daemons of slaanesh do, and he was horrified to find that after accepting my herald's challenge with his mounted captain in a large cavalry unit (which i charged; failed his fear check cause of my BSB) had to take a Ld test with -4 just to strike, because i caused 1 wound with a torment blade (-2 from BSB, rolled a 3 on masque's power). i then proceded to run that unit off the board very quickly. turn 2 win, because similar things were happening all across the board.

SkawtheFalconer
13-08-2009, 16:18
I got off what I thought was a superb flank charge on 5 Tomb Kings Fast Cav with my characterless 5 Wild Riders. His champion was at the flank I charged... meaning I could only hit him. With no characters, I couldn't get any overkill, and only beat him by about one. With the BSB nearby, he didn't even lose any further horsemen.

Never mind, I thought - I'll whoop him next time.

He proceeds to cast Invocation (or the TK equivolent)... and re-raised the champion in B2B with my unit. :(

SkawtheFalconer
13-08-2009, 16:22
And one that went in my favour, for a change...

My Brayshaman cast a seemingly innocuous Steed of Shadows on himself on one dice. My opponent assumed I was just trying to draw dispel dice, let it through. I flew him 20" towards my huge Bray herd, meaning he was in range for Call of the Wild (forget name - Beast magic item and spell, works like Unseen Lurker) in his magical Braystaff. He used his dispel dice on other spells, I then cast CoW with no resistance, charge and butcher one of his units :D

SilverWarlock
13-08-2009, 17:41
A few of mine, skaven first:

-I had the skaven bunker (30 stormvermin, double banner with swarm and warbanner, hero in the front with a good AS, ward and -2 attacks to enemy). He had a doombull in 5 dragon ogres, I shoot them with warplightning cannon to frenzy them, let them charge, challenge (the doombull does nothing, given position it also stopped a DO attacking as he was only in contact with my hero) he gets 4-5 kills, I win by 2 or 3, he flees 2D6 (doombull slows unit down) and dies.

-Skaven lord with fellblade ... Against a unit of DOs with doombull, accept challenge on unit champ, the lord proceeds to annihilate 2 DOs and the unit gets overrun.

-That same Lord with Fellblade had a kill counter including a number of treemen, stegadons, dragons and other complete beasts in combat.

-Against an all knight and flyer tzeentch list (old WoC) my skaven horde deployed in a corner, no space between units (so couldn't land screamers to get ratlings), slaves in front, WLCs sniping his characters from the back out of LOS. He takes turn 1 and sets up as if I was going to move up, I didn't move all game, just sat there sniping, I knew I couldn't catch him but I sniped off his characters and won the game by a lot (magic missiles in slaves were irrelevant to me).

My slaaneshi army was just generally digusting (DP lvl 4 slaaneshi unholy idol, 2 bray shamen slaanesh lvl 2, 2 giants, 2x5 mounted demonettes 3 herds) including:

-getting Grimgor to attack his own unit, repeatedly while I avoided them, he ended the game with Grimgor and 5-6 BOs of the 25 initial, they never saw combat.

-Frenzying a 6+ TK chariot unit with Prince when I had a 10 strong herd in terrain right beside them, they charge and take hits, break the unit, forced pursuit, take more hits, and I had a big herd on the other side of the water that killed the now lone prince with CR.

-Game involving a "unit in the center at the end of the game earns double its points for the owner", last turn 5 MDs run to center (from 18 inches off) and the DP flies in from the other side to join the unit (a flying mount can't join a unit but ogre sized flying characters still can). Result a 800 point unit sitting on center at the end when I had nothing anywhere near there all game. Had to pull out a rulebook to show the "flying characters can still join units just not flying mounts" part, both were demonic and slaanesh so no problems there. 1600 VPs off that made it a massacre rather than minor victory.

-a number of times frenzying a unit or forcing movement to set up charges with the giant duo

-Frenzy a unit of elven knights so they have to charge my DP, he challenges overkills, overruns ... and then charges the backline boltthrowers or archers.


All those are in tournament games. Note that that chaos army is 1000 point character (caster), 400 point giant, 300 point fast cav and 300 point Herds (my only core).

Von Wibble
13-08-2009, 18:25
Doesn't mean you have to tell your opponent surely, we just write it on a peice of paper and reveal it at the appropriate moment, or have we been using it wrong? Same thing we do with the bane head?

Also the champion wasnt in base contact, the Arch Lector (on a 20mm base) only has to contact two models the VLord and the Black NightUnit Standard that was next to him.

At the very least that would mean declaring you have the sword of fate in your army. Since the nomination is at the startof the battle, and items are revealed when first used, you would have to tell your opponent you have the sword of fate, and also who in your army has it. I think the item is simply too good not to declre in such a way.

It also adds an element of the hunted becoming the hunter (and vice versa) if declared at the start.

Your point about the champion is correct - I forgot the vamp was mounted. If on foot he can guarantee the champ being in contact though. At the end of the day, serves the guy right for fielding a mega expensive unit, and then letting 3 spells through that he didn't need to do...

SilverWarlock - that frenzy spell is disgustingly good in the Slaaneshi list. I've always thought the only way to make that spell fair is to only allow it to be cast on friendly models. That or put the casting value up to 11+ - its a game winning spell after all.

blackcherry
13-08-2009, 19:23
I suppose under dirty tricks failing, my mate used goblin netters on my rather expensive Chaos Warriors unit, cackling as he did so at how much havoc he would cause. Just his luck that he would roll a 1 for them...

One turn later and 10 butchered goblins, off went his 60 strong goblin unit, with his general and BSB in! To say the least, there was a lot of swearing at that dice roll and the unit was consigned to its box for a few months as punishment.

Drachen_Jager
13-08-2009, 22:40
sounds like wood elves to me.

i played an empire guy who had no idea what daemons of slaanesh do, and he was horrified to find that after accepting my herald's challenge with his mounted captain in a large cavalry unit (which i charged; failed his fear check cause of my BSB) had to take a Ld test with -4 just to strike, because i caused 1 wound with a torment blade (-2 from BSB, rolled a 3 on masque's power). i then proceded to run that unit off the board very quickly. turn 2 win, because similar things were happening all across the board.

So... What you're saying is that using the Daemons book amounts to a dirty tactic?

tricker53
14-08-2009, 14:30
i wasnt in this game, but i watched a siege battle between some friends of mine. 10k of vampires and dark elves against 5k of lizardmen and empire behind walls.

the vampire player had brought along about 30 power dice, and i think in total the 10k list had 46. anyway, in turn 2, first spell the vampires player casts is invocation on a knights unit that had taken a bucket of shooting from empire turn 1, and the lizardmen player uses cube of darkness, and rolls a 4. 40+ power dice down the drain.

Condottiere
14-08-2009, 17:26
I think that once you've reached 20 Power Die (not counting bound items), you've reached optimal number usable. If it were High Elves instead of Empire, that would be two turns without magic.

N810
14-08-2009, 17:50
Yup Lizies have some unexpected anti-magic...
the ever controversioal cupped hands,
cube of darkness can end a magic phase,
mirror shield will rebound a magic missle back at the caster,
the item that can make oposing wizards stupid,
the item that makes oposing wizards 6's not count,
good times.... good times. :p

Sambojin
14-08-2009, 19:11
Just the sheer amount of evil, psychological warfare thats encompassed in a unit of 21 night goblins and a muso. Its the stereotypical fanatic holder, but is it this time? Sometimes it has 3, sometimes none, sometimes just one. Between a few wolfriders and this little wonder I've caused my opponents more grief on a flank than anything else. Do they risk the charge? Should they just move in close to draw them out? Are there any in there at all? Since I tend to move my 6 fanatics around my four foot units between games anyway, it's just a lovely, brain grinding threat. And there's nothing like bringing no fanatics and pumping up something else instead (with all the random crap I always seem to fit into my army, it's kind of hard to calculate 150pts or so of difference). It's not a trick, they see it coming, they just never know what you did until they make their decision. :)

Another non-trick. 4 pump wagons in a group deployed first(works just like a crap, slow infantry unit). 4 wolfrider units on the flanks. It just kind of lets you see what's coming against all but the unity-ist armies..............

Commissar Vaughn
14-08-2009, 19:23
Dunno if this is dirty as such but...

Many moons ago a dozen of us played a gathering of might style game: mostly greenskins on one side (plus possibly undead and chaos if memory serves) against a mottley collection of men, elves and dwarfs including my own mercenary Landsknechts.

The armies were fairly even, except we were hoplessly outgunned in the magic phase. I had a level 2 grey wizard (called Grand Alf...) and he was backed up by a level 1 damsel and runesmith, but the opposition deployed several dozen (more than 20 easily!) goblin shamans and a level 4 savage ork shaman lord to point them all in the right direction.

Quite why in such a big game even the Elves hadnt brought any heavy hitters I'll never know but it became quickly apparent that the sheer number of spells heading our way was going to cause problems. Grand Alfs staff of sorcery certainly wasnt going to stop everything! Luckily Grand Alf had a trick up his sleeve in the form of a Shadowy Steed, so he called over the Captain in charge of the Landsknecht pikes and hurled him across the battlefield into the centre of the orc army. Captain von Drakmoor suddenly found himself stood next to the Orc shaman and promptly gave it the once over with his zweihander, thus ensuring our Magical Superiority!

He wandered around for a bit doing over any of the goblin shamans he could find ( as well as the various infantry sent to see him off) before returning to his own regiment in time to help see off the Orc cavalry!

Perhaps not dirty, but they never saw it coming.

Necromancy Black
15-08-2009, 02:53
Ogre Player used Hellheart against my Slann. I responded by using cupped hands to bounce back a 1 at his main butcher. He hasn't tried that again.

No one like being baneheaded. WE particularly hate it when I put banehead on their Treeman Ancient and then procede to hit it with a flaming attack. They just don't like losing 4 wounds a hit :D

Also, managing to roll that 6 for the Huanchi Totem and having your COR charge 20" is always classic.

tricker53
15-08-2009, 13:55
you cant bounce a '1' roll onto an ogre caster, as it specifically states you roll 2 dice. it also states that '5 are 6 are ignored', which means only roll from 2 to 4 counts. sucks, i know.

Daniel Skaven Blight
15-08-2009, 14:48
Interesting gobiln tact I personally like the following for a goblin lord The blade that gives you +1 ws, s, atk, effigy of mork -1 to hit in combat, mount him on a wolf with enchanted shield and light armour for a +3 save and big eds kickin boots +1 atk, however when we did a siege I used a spider and scaled the wall and wiped out all his units on it, another trick is to make the goblin T5, if that isn't taking the **** then I don't know what is

SilverWarlock
16-08-2009, 15:00
Under the night goblin idea I have seen a nice one (doesn't work in an official tournament setting if you have to present models) which is to line up models the models for assassins/fanatics ... when they aren't in the list. Just put them out and ready on your table edge the whole game, freaks some people out.

As I said though, tournament armies can't do it.

WhiteKnight
16-08-2009, 21:02
Played against my friend, a skaven player. He NEVER uses assassins, until this game. He pops up and owns my unit champ.

I was using a khazrak all-ambush army against this one guy. He was like, where's your army? I said wait a couple turns and see what happens. He never played against beastmen before so he's like, what's going on. He can't do any magic (sucks because he's a lizardmen player) and he can only move. Turn 4, my whole army comes from every board edge and he gets freaked out. My next turn, I'm in combat and khazrak's unit murders everything.

danny7865
16-08-2009, 21:29
THat is harsh lol ^ but hilarious nonetheless :)

mossel
16-08-2009, 22:49
why can't you put some fanatics or an assassin with your army on tournaments, even though you're not using it? as long as you aren't playig with it, your not cheating :p

I know a couple of players who display their army on a modelled tray when being judged for painting, and they always put more on the tray then the army they are using. and why not put a greatly painted BSB with the army's banner on it, even though it's not used in the tournament? it only adds to the sight of the army :)

It may be somewhat of a lame tactic, but people used it against me, and I have to say, it works! I never approached the night goblins with my frail Wild Riders! You can imagine my frustration when I finally treesang a forest with some scouts in it within 8" of the 60+ strong unit. NOTHING!!!!!!

Necromancy Black
16-08-2009, 23:23
you cant bounce a '1' roll onto an ogre caster, as it specifically states you roll 2 dice. it also states that '5 are 6 are ignored', which means only roll from 2 to 4 counts. sucks, i know.

You obviously don't know what hellheart does.

I makes you miscast on any double and when you miscast you roll on the Ogre's Miscast table. That makes me roll with a single dice, because the cupped hands doesn't say to roll 2 dice.

Without the hellheart then yes, it would be with two dice.

Braugi
17-08-2009, 01:55
We were playing a 2 on 2 ...Wood Elves and Lizardmen vs. Vampire Counts and Dark Elves

Deployment, the VC player was using Manfred at a huge number of points, and deployed him alone, near a copse of trees.

I placed my Waywatchers in the trees, and had first turn...moved the waywatchers to the edge of the woods and let loose a barrage of ranged killing blows on Manfred...killed him in the first turn....the army starts to fall apart and functionally, its WE and Lizards vs. Dark Elves....

Necromancy Black
17-08-2009, 03:23
...using Manfred at a huge number of points, and deployed him alone...

WHAT? He must've had a killer plan in the works, cause that just seems like the worse place for a VC general to be.

bambamBIGILO
17-08-2009, 03:52
Savage orc BB
-mads map
-Great wpn

or savage lord
-mads map
-bloodaxe

always fun to watch. different variants but all are fun. No one suspects a scouting savage orc!

SilverWarlock
17-08-2009, 04:58
the Manfred story reminds me of another.

Guy who was doing very well in Canadian tournament with VC, beautiful army, always had manfred (old book).

So Manfred is sitting in his unit of zombies ... frenzied the zombies, he was like "what the hell, I let it go" ... beast herd 13 inches away with giants ready for countercharge ... goodbye Manfred.

Braugi
17-08-2009, 12:17
WHAT? He must've had a killer plan in the works, cause that just seems like the worse place for a VC general to be.

Yeah, I don't get it myself...Manfred was horribly exposed...it was my first time playing Wood Elfs and it gave me a real appreciation for what Waywatchers are capable of...

Lord 0
17-08-2009, 14:07
My Empire versus Lizardmen.

General was a Wizard Lord with Light Magic in a unit of knights. His was some kind of Saurus dude. I forget what he was armed with - not enough as it turns out.

For the whole game I kept making trash-talk about challenging his lord versus my lord and that I will beat him down mano-a-geko or something. Over the next few turns make a beeline for his generals unit and then charge it in the face.

I cast 'Flashbang' and make the unit WS1 and then issue a challenge with my wizard lord. He, expecting Van Horstman's Speculum, accepts with his champion and keeps his lord well out of the way. That turns out to be a mistake though, because he is *not* armed with Van Horsmann's Speculum - instead he is armed with the Armour of Tarnus and the Mace of Helsturm.

I sacrifice my one S3 attack to gain one S10 attack doing D6 wounds that (through sheer good fortune) obliterates the poor champion and generates me 6 combat res (1 for the wound, and the maximum of +5 for the overkill). Next round the lord then goes on to beat the snot out of the lord too, although he won that one by the skin of his teeth.

Still, I get to claim the bragging rights that my Wizard Lord went toe-toeclaw with a Saurus lord and won a Challenge *without* Van Horstmans Speculum :).

zeekill
17-08-2009, 23:34
Ogre Kingdoms, take Skrag the Slaughterer and 8 Gorgers in 2000 points. Skrag Kills one model, any model, and all 8 gorgers come in from any table edge you want. Then they get to you with their 12" march and rip your legs off.

sulla
18-08-2009, 04:50
I was using a khazrak all-ambush army against this one guy.

Another good Khazrak trick is to take 2 bray's with bear's anger in his unit. (one could be MoN with the goretooth to make them immune to fear). Have them both cast bear's anger at Khazrak each turn. He gets +1 strength for each spell cast at him, even if dispelled so you'll get him up to s10 in no time at all. Then sit back and watch his sword and whip kill a steamtank in a single phase...:evilgrin:

Sarah S
18-08-2009, 07:23
Third Eye of Tzeentch on a Chaos Sorceror Lord.
Your worthy opponent Brings Kairos.

You use his spells.

Boon of Tzeentch first with 1 dice.
Bolt of Change.
Glean Magic --> Bolt of Change
Whatever else he had that's worth casting.

EDIT:
More fun with the Third Eye.

Get a Sorceror with the Third Eye into combat with a Plaguebearer Bunker or Great Unclean one with Miasma of Pestilence.
Have another Sorceror successfully cast Curse of the Leper onto the target unit.
Have the Third Eye Sorceror cast Miasma of Pestilence and wipe out the entire unit - enemies in base to base are lowered to S1, T1, Curse of the Leper lowers this to 0, as each model in base to base contact dies, another one rushes forward to take his place, and also die.

kardar233
19-08-2009, 05:39
Third Eyed Kroak once.

Declaration of Itza is cruel against, well, anything. Even Unbreakable Temple Guard.

Also, once Soul Stealer'd a unit of Black Guard. (I got a lucky roll on the Book of Secrets, getting Law of Gold to destroy the Ring.)

mossel
19-08-2009, 08:51
not really sure how you think the Book of Secrets works... but IIRC, the bearer gets to know a randomly determined spell from either the lore of shadow, death or fire... how you'd ever get Law of Gold is a mystery to me...

Dungeon_Lawyer
20-08-2009, 16:55
Another good Khazrak trick is to take 2 bray's with bear's anger in his unit. (one could be MoN with the goretooth to make them immune to fear). Have them both cast bear's anger at Khazrak each turn. He gets +1 strength for each spell cast at him, even if dispelled so you'll get him up to s10 in no time at all. Then sit back and watch his sword and whip kill a steamtank in a single phase...:evilgrin:

Sulla Im afraid combining it with a weapon is grossly illegal-Read the last sentence of the spell description for Bear's Anger: "He cannot weild a weapon nor use a sheild whilst using this spell"

Dragon Prince of Caledor
20-08-2009, 18:04
My only "dirty" which isnt dirty trick I played on my friend was the first time i used the star lance against his TK. Watching a unit of chariots blow up was amazing. He didnt see that coming.

One trick I had done against me that I was like HOLY CRAP! Was when the same guy I just mention used that banner of reform with his tomb guard and owned my silver helms in a 1000 pt game when I thought they were safe. It won him the game. It was epic.

bludsturm
20-08-2009, 19:58
Sulla Im afraid combining it with a weapon is grossly illegal-Read the last sentence of the spell description for Bear's Anger: "He cannot weild a weapon nor use a sheild whilst using this spell"

Dungeon Lawyer - Khazrak has a magic item that gives him +1 S for every spell cast targeting him/his unit, even if the spell is dispelled. What Sulla is suggesting is to just have the two shamans throw spells at Khazrak - no need to let them RiP since he'll get the Strength bonus from his magic armor anyway.

Maoriboy007
20-08-2009, 20:00
Sulla Im afraid combining it with a weapon is grossly illegal-Read the last sentence of the spell description for Bear's Anger: "He cannot weild a weapon nor use a sheild whilst using this spell"

The spell can be ended at any time, due to his magic armour he gains a permanent +1 strength every time a spell is successfully (not counting being dispelled) cast at him or his unit (hence bears anger). As a remains in play spell, he can decide to end it and keep the strength bonus.

sulla
20-08-2009, 21:04
Sulla Im afraid combining it with a weapon is grossly illegal-Read the last sentence of the spell description for Bear's Anger: "He cannot weild a weapon nor use a sheild whilst using this spell"I never said I was using the bear's anger and the weapons at the same time. Think outside the box. I just use the spell to buff his strength by +1 permanently. Then recast it again with the other bray for another +1. Even if dispelled, get that.

If the spell actually gets through, I have the choice to either use the spell and his buffed strength or end the spell and use his weapons.

(So back to your dungeon, lawyer. Looks like you need a few more years of practice reading the fineprint.)

Tarian
20-08-2009, 21:34
Well, don't think it's a dirty tactic, but it's always good to ask your opponent about things you didn't know.

My HE lord gets challenged by Skulltaker and is subsequently KB'd. I figure, 5+ KB, he has a solid chance.

After the game, I find out Skulltaker has flaming attacks... and my Lord was in Dragon Armor. /doh

EDIT:: Solid chance to GET KB'd, not to survive.

Dungeon_Lawyer
29-08-2009, 11:21
I never said I was using the bear's anger and the weapons at the same time. Think outside the box. I just use the spell to buff his strength by +1 permanently. Then recast it again with the other bray for another +1. Even if dispelled, get that.

If the spell actually gets through, I have the choice to either use the spell and his buffed strength or end the spell and use his weapons.

(So back to your dungeon, lawyer. Looks like you need a few more years of practice reading the fineprint.):wtf::confused:

Thanks Sulla, Im already aware of Kzk's special armor and its bonuses-Its a very cool trick. However, your initial description of the dirty trick in question seemed to suggest that bear's anger was being used in conjuction with Kzk's weapons-It left that notion open to interpretation at any rate due to lack of detail-for as you concede you "never said" one way or the other....My post rasing this question was innoculous, so excuse me for having a hardtime understanding the general douchbaggedness tone of your followup post. A simple follow-up providing some more info would have sufficed. I have always enjoyed your insights on warseer in the past so it just comes as a diappointing surprise that you would respond in the manner that you did....

nightstorm
29-08-2009, 11:43
Lizards Cube Of Darkness (ends magic phase)
Dark Elf casting phase

Wait for them to get a nice roll on the spell that gives them extra power dice. If they then dont use all of those dice on the next spell use the cube of darkness and watch that sorceress cry as the unused PD she hasnt use cause those lovely wounds.

Dispell and kill in their spell phase, yummy.

tricker53
30-08-2009, 00:08
scar vet with that cold one cloak (+1T) and bears anger. S3 cant even touch him.

ive seen a lone ethereal slann get charged by a cheap character with no magical weapon, the slann also had a BSB so it was winning the combat every time. pretty funny.

Knobber
30-08-2009, 01:44
Bret Paladin lone charged a Treeman. My friend the Wood Elf player said it was a stupid move and perhaps it was risky, but not stupid. Virtue of Audacity (re-roll hits and wounds against anything with a higher base strength than him) and the Wyrm Lance (flaming double wounds no ward save) killed it on the charge. He was super unhappy.

orlanth1000
30-08-2009, 04:40
I love this thread, I wonder how many people are now applying some of this dirtiness to their games now?