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Zilverug
08-08-2009, 19:02
Suppose a mounted character on a 50x50 base charges out of a non-charging unit of infantry he/she/it is with. Before the charge, the unit lay out was like:

X X C C X X
X X C C X X
X X X X X X
X X X X X X

C = mounted character
X = infantry model

What would be the layout of the infantry unit after the character charged out? (And why?)

T10
08-08-2009, 19:23
Charging OUT of INfantry

Oh, I see what you did there.

It would have the same width (in terms of number of models) as it had when the character joined the unit.

Presumably, this would be 6 models wide.

-T10

Chipacabra
08-08-2009, 21:47
There's no general rule, for some reason, but specific rulings in the FAQ and in the lizardmen army book give the general guideline: A character on a larger base than the unit it's in displaces a number of models appropriate to its size, and completes ranks as if it were multiple models. Basically, the facing of the unit is treated the same as before the character joined.

In practice, the results will almost always be more fiddly than that. A cavalry base is wider than an infantry base, so the character doesn't quite fit neatly. You just have to do the best you can.

In the case of your example, that infantry unit is 6 bases wide and 4 ranks deep. When the character leaves, infantry will fill the gap it left behind, leaving a unit 6 bases wide and 3 ranks deep, plus a partial rank.

rtunian
09-08-2009, 03:48
or in other words...

X X X X X X
X X X X X X
X X X X X X
----X X----

Braad
09-08-2009, 07:18
rtunian got it spot on. Number of files doesn't change, and the rear rank is the only rank with less models, which should be placed towards the center.

Milgram
09-08-2009, 09:16
IMHO it is a more interesting question if you have it like this:

X X C C X X
X X C C X X

I'd still go with the 6 wide file.

Zilverug
09-08-2009, 09:29
The reasoning behind this question was that there seem to be quite a number of people around who count the number of models to determine the number of files and that would be 5 in the first two ranks.

Those people won't grant +3 rank bonus for a formation like:
X X C C X
X X C C X
X X X X X
X X X X X

Personally, I think this is flawed reasoning, because the third and further ranks are 6 models wide and having more models in a rear rank than in the front rank is not allowed.

Anyway, those people's logic would dictate that
X X X X X
X X X X X
X X X X X
X X X X X
would the end result after a character charges out of
X X C C X X
X X C C X X
X X X X X X
X X X X X X

Necromancy Black
09-08-2009, 09:49
Well in the case of the Lizardmen book is explains how to handle larger models in smaller base units and says count them as being equal to the space the displace. So a kroxigor in a skink unit counts as 2 skinks wide and deep, meaning you only need 3 skinks in the same row to get a rank.

Jushak
09-08-2009, 10:04
Those people won't grant +3 rank bonus for a formation like:
X X C C X
X X C C X
X X X X X
X X X X X

They would be wrong.

Only annoying thing with the use of cavalry/monster bases is that the bases of most armies are smaller than cavalry base, making for less neat ranking. Thankfully as WoC player I don't have to suffer from that :p

tarrasque
09-08-2009, 10:24
i see it like this:
you field a unit
lets say:

XXXXX
XXXXX
XXXXX
XXXXX

at the end of your deployment you field your char. he joins a unit, this does not change the number of rank and file in the unit but merly moves a few of them to the back to make room.
something like this
XXCCX
XXCCX
XXXXX
XXXXX
XXXX

this becouse that you do not reform of redress the ranks by joining a char, the rank size would stay the same. until you uses a reform or a redress the rank move. it wil be the same even if the char leafs

Von Wibble
09-08-2009, 10:43
IMHO it is a more interesting question if you have it like this:

X X C C X X
X X C C X X

I'd still go with the 6 wide file.

I agree.

X X X X X X
X X

is how I'd play it. (Except thay'd be aligned - for some reason it won't let me)

Edit - the Xs on the bottom row should be in the middle. Not suire why it posted them on the left.

nosferatu1001
09-08-2009, 10:49
Von wibble - use the {Code} tags (use square braces lol) if you want it to maintain spacing.

I agree - you would have 2 in the middle of the rear rank.

BRB FAQ part 2 states that you should use the number of models being displaced to determine how many models the character mount takes up. This gives you a simple rule of cavalry == 2 normal infantry models, 40x40 = 4, etc. You do have to fudge it slightly (25x50mm in a unit of 20mm doesn't quite fit, as an example) but playing without being an idiot does make it easier on both sides :)

Braad
09-08-2009, 12:22
IMHO it is a more interesting question if you have it like this:

X X C C X X
X X C C X X

I'd still go with the 6 wide file.

This would end up like this:
X X X X X X
X X X X

Otherwise you're just creating problems in something that should be fun. And the clarification in the new lizardmen FAQ about how larger models fill ranks, say to treat those bigger ones a just how many small ones would fill it's base. I say: go the same with this situation.

nosferatu1001
09-08-2009, 12:45
Correction - the BRB FAQ Part 2 states how to treat larger models, whereas the Lizardmen army book actually has the rules anyway - for Slann/TG and Krox/Skink examples.