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View Full Version : Golden Eye of Tzeentch vs Lore of Metal



Dawei
08-08-2009, 23:22
I'm sure this question was asked back when the WoC book came out but I can't for the life of me find a thread about it, so here goes..

Does the Golden Eye of Tzeentch magic item provide a ward save against hits from the Spirit of the Forge and Rule of Burning Iron spells?

The item provides a 4+ ward to the bearer against "all normal and magical missiles".

Thanks in advance :)

nosferatu1001
08-08-2009, 23:26
Unless it uses the phrase "magic missile" it isn't, and therefore the ward save would not work. HE would be down to the 6+ basic Tzeentch save

Kalandros
09-08-2009, 00:28
Only spells that are magic missiles will trigger the ward save, Lore of Metal #1 and #6 are not magic missiles.

pfishy98
09-08-2009, 02:36
it usually says specifically "magic missile" in the rules

Dawei
09-08-2009, 09:23
Thanks for the replies guys, this seems pretty decisive :)

EvC
09-08-2009, 17:15
Yes, and quite sad...

jrodrag
09-08-2009, 22:58
Nosferatu: Unless it uses the phrase "magic missile" it isn't, and therefore the ward save would not work. HE would be down to the 6+ basic Tzeentch save

The Mark of Tzeentch either adds +1 to your ward save OR gives you a 6+ ward save, not both. The poor Tzeentch guy is going to have no ward save in the case the op mentions.

nosferatu1001
09-08-2009, 23:06
No, if gives you an improvement to a ward save if you have a ward save - at the time the spell hits there is no ward save. Conditional ward saves don't exist until the conditions are met.

jrodrag
10-08-2009, 01:00
we'll have to agree to disagree on that one then. Cause I see it as you have a ward save that isn't working but it dosen't stop you from having one.

Kalandros
10-08-2009, 01:32
jrodrag, reread it carefully

"It bestows a 6+ ward save upon the bearer."
That's the first effect of the mark

It continues with "If the model has a ward save from another source then that ward save is instead increased by 1" This is obviously referring to the Ward Save from another Source and not the 6+ ward save.

So the 4+ ward save becomes 3+ ward save when it works, thats assuming the user of the Golden Eye has the Mark of Tzeentch of course, and when it does not work then the bearer has a 6+ ward save as per the Mark of Tzeentch rule.

Necromancy Black
10-08-2009, 01:47
Can some please sum up what the hell you people are arguing about? Cause the way I'm reading it your arguing the exact same being right.

Signius
10-08-2009, 02:18
Can some please sum up what the hell you people are arguing about? Cause the way I'm reading it your arguing the exact same being right.

Mark of Tzeentch gives a 6+ ward save, or if you have a different ward save, improves your ward save by one. Jrodrag believes that having a conditional ward save (in this case, a 4+ versus missiles) means that that ward save gives increased to 3+, but in cases where you wouldn't have a ward save, you don't get a 6+ ward save. Others believe that you gain the 6+ in the case where the condition doesn't apply, and in cases where the condition does apply, you gain the +1.

I happen to think the latter, especially due to the fact that you could have for example a 5+ ward save, and a 4+ conditional ward save, and Jrodrag's interpretation would imply you have to pick one to apply to. I think the intention is just to increase all wards saves by one and "7+" nonexistant ward saves should be treated the same way.

Necromancy Black
10-08-2009, 03:02
Ok, I think that makes sense.

And I agree, mark of tzeentch basically gives you +1 to any ward save OR gives you a 6+. You'll always get one of them.