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Grunge
09-08-2009, 14:21
A bunch of quick questions that arose different solutions this past gaming session my group had:

1) Does the Casket of Souls affect ITP units? Discussion has been laid out because of the old Banshee scream, bla bla bla.

2) Do or do not Skaven weapon teams get to be shot even if close to another Skaven unit? Skaven Army books says no, 7th edition rules says yes, Skaven FAQ says no again?

3) Skinks shooting twice get the -1 to hit or not?

4) Thrown weapons can be shot even if the unit marched?

5) Characters or units carrying two different ranged weapons (either magical and mundane, or two mundane ranged weapons, either thrown or shot) can fire both or just one of them?

lcfr
09-08-2009, 14:47
1. The rules for the Light of Death don't exclude ITP units from its effects, so therefore even ITP units are affected. Who cares what the Banshee rules say?

4. As I understand it, units that march cannot shoot, but in case this comes up, skirmishers always move at double movement without counting as marching. So no ranked units may march and fire.

theunwantedbeing
09-08-2009, 14:58
1. Yes.
2. They can be shot if they can be seen.
3. Yes, on both shots.
4. Only if the unit weilding them is fast cavalry.
5. Just one of them.

@ Lcfr
4. That's 6th edition, not 7th edition.

Grunge
09-08-2009, 15:25
2. They can be shot if they can be seen.


But in the Skaven FAQ FEB 2008, page one:


Q.. Does the Cavalry Base special rule mean that
weapons teams can be targeted by shooting even when
within 5" of a unit because they are on a larger base?
A. No. It says on page 26 “…they cannot be singled out
as targets by enemy shooters because they are the same
size as the other Skaven around them.”

Festus
09-08-2009, 15:46
Hi

theunwantedbeing is very correct on all accounts (including the Skaven one ;) )
It should be noted that - regarding 5) - two pistols may be shot simultaneously as multiple shot 2, as this is given in their special rules in the BRB.

Festus

nosferatu1001
09-08-2009, 15:59
But in the Skaven FAQ FEB 2008, page one:

Look at it this way: the FAQ says you can't be shot because you are close to another unit - it doesn't give a blanket "you can't be shot". So you can't be shot because you are near a unit, but 7th comes along and says that being close to a unit doesn't matter any longer, if I can see you I can shoot you.

crushinbeats
09-08-2009, 17:50
Having a hard time following here, probly because I'm an idiot. (atleast I can admit it)

Skaven can or can't be singled out with missle weapons and spells?

Griefbringer
09-08-2009, 18:01
In 7th edition, Skaven weapon teams can be shot the same as anybody else.

nosferatu1001
09-08-2009, 18:26
As I said - they can be shot because 7th ed states you can be shot as long as you can be seen: the skaven rule says that, despite being bigger you can't be shot if you are near a unit, however this doesn't override 7th ed rules.

Kalandros
09-08-2009, 19:01
1) Does the Casket of Souls affect ITP units? Discussion has been laid out because of the old Banshee scream, bla bla bla.

Yes

2) Do or do not Skaven weapon teams get to be shot even if close to another Skaven unit? Skaven Army books says no, 7th edition rules says yes, Skaven FAQ says no again?

FAQ is old 6th edition, not updated to 7th edition ruling (the 2008 date on it is wrong, its just the date it was added back unto the new GWShop website, not the date it was udpated)

3) Skinks shooting twice get the -1 to hit or not?

Yes, they get the penalty

4) Thrown weapons can be shot even if the unit marched?

Not if they are not Fast Cavalry.

5) Characters or units carrying two different ranged weapons (either magical and mundane, or two mundane ranged weapons, either thrown or shot) can fire both or just one of them?

Each model may use a single ranged weapon in a given shooting phase.

Tykinkuula
09-08-2009, 19:50
skirmishers always move at double movement without counting as marching

Update your rulebook mate, 7th has been around for quite a while now.

Grunge
11-08-2009, 00:54
FAQ is old 6th edition, not updated to 7th edition ruling (the 2008 date on it is wrong, its just the date it was added back unto the new GWShop website, not the date it was udpated)

Cheers mate, that pretty much solved my problems!

By the way, what the hell is in this WD?


Q. Do the new Storm Banner rules (White Dwarf 272)
mean that...
Quote from the current Skaven FAQ

Kalec
11-08-2009, 02:03
WD is the acronym for White Dwarf, a bundle of advertisements sold as a magazine to gullible customers.

nosferatu1001
11-08-2009, 04:08
?? Grunge knows this, was just asking what the updated Storm Banner rules were in WD272 - it didn't even mention "WD" as the acronym.

The magazine is useful in ways - the painting techniques are useful for one.

Grunge
11-08-2009, 11:25
Yeah I was asking about the rules. I got WD 272 (UK) and I can't find any new rules.

Lord Solar Plexus
11-08-2009, 14:22
I'm afraid I do not agree with the interpretation of shooting at Skaven WT's. It is clearly a special rule. Special rules always override general rules, so the rule book is meaningless.

In this case, we have a special rule that says that shooting at weapon teams has the same limitations as shooting at characters. Well, it should be clear what those limitations are. The SR then goes on to extend that limitation to 3".

It has been postulated that proximity to a unit does not matter. That is not true, as being part of a unit and as such in extreme proximity offers protection.

If the rule book says fast CAV can move X", and my AB says my fast CAV can move Y", guess which takes precedence. And guess which stays the same when 8th edition comes around...

nosferatu1001
11-08-2009, 14:26
Lord Solar Plexus - except it doesnt say that.

It states that you can't shoot at them as they are the same size. Fine, ok.

7th ed says that, regardless of size, you can shoot at them.

The two rules do not conflict at all.

Lord Solar Plexus
11-08-2009, 14:40
Lord Solar Plexus - except it doesnt say that.

It states that you can't shoot at them as they are the same size. Fine, ok.


What is "it"? The "cavalry base" rule of WT's doesn't say anything about shooting at them, only the one on jezzails. However, the "attached" rule clearly speaks about the same limitations as when shooting at characters + 3".



7th ed says that, regardless of size, you can shoot at them.

The two rules do not conflict at all.

The rule book is irrelevant, as the special rule is sufficiently clear, and as such they do not conflict. If it were relevant as you insist, then one says can shoot and the other says cannot shoot, and they would conflict.

I don't understand why you're saying that the generic rule would take precedence. That has never been the case.

EvC
11-08-2009, 14:59
In this case, we have a special rule that says that shooting at weapon teams has the same limitations as shooting at characters. Well, it should be clear what those limitations are.

There are no limitations to shooting at characters by themselves near units, you realise?

nosferatu1001
11-08-2009, 15:13
What is "it"? The "cavalry base" rule of WT's doesn't say anything about shooting at them, only the one on jezzails. However, the "attached" rule clearly speaks about the same limitations as when shooting at characters + 3".

7th ed places no restrictions on shooting at characters outside of units. So by saying it follows the same restrictions it is saying it follows none

You can shoot away. The two ruiles do not overlap

Lord Solar Plexus
12-08-2009, 10:56
Ah! Suddenly realization dawns! What a warm feeling this is, being an Empire player and all... :) Very well.

For one reason or the other I thought it said "...have the same limitations as when targeting single characters in a unit." which is of course not the case.

nosferatu1001
12-08-2009, 12:39
ah right, that woulld change it - and be a totally different situation!

No worries, these things happen :D

Grunge
12-08-2009, 16:48
Anyone knows what that White Dwarf stuff on the FAQ is about?

Hrogoff the Destructor
12-08-2009, 17:06
Got a quick question (kind of similar to the skink one earlier), I was playing a game the other day and someone noticed I was shooting skinks and and as a result of long range was I was subtracting 1 from my to hit roles.

The guy said skinks weren't -1 from long range. I didn't do what he said as I wasn't entirely sure he was right and didn't want to cheat my opponent. I thought all 12+ inch range weapons suffer from long range.

Who was right?

EDIT: Nevermind, I just searched the forums.