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iluvatar18
09-08-2009, 15:54
Up until this point in my Marine army, I have always used Drop Pods. They give you so much flexibility and the ability to deploy anywhere.

But I have decided to go Mechanized Marines as people are beginning to belly-ache about my Drop Tactics.

So I will be sporting many Rhinos/Predators. But my question is, are Land Raiders worth it?

For roughly 250 points depending on upgrades or what variant, are they truely worth the huge amount of points? I mean I can always manage to blow up my opponents pretty quick, and then his terminators or whatever are stuck there for a very, very long time.

Land Raiders are awesome looking tanks, but are they worth the points? The size of the actual model? The Real Money? Do they really make back their points in a 1500-2500 point game?

And which variant is the best? I was thinking the Crusader, because of all the shots. (I'm more of a mass firepower guy over a few low AP shots) Plus it can hold the Chaplain with termi armour and a squad.

Anyways, your comments are appreciated!

kaimarion
09-08-2009, 16:02
The landraider isn't really ment to stay stationary as it is a troop transport and should be used as such the lascannons are just icing, whenever I use mine on the 1st turn I move them 12 then on the second turn I move it 6 get my khorne LC termies out then assault. If you use the LR properly it can easily earn it's points back.

Commander Wesker
09-08-2009, 16:21
Land Raiders are great! I have a Black Templar army and I use the LRC as transports. Just like kaimarion said, First turn move 12 and pop smoke. Next turn move 6 drop off the troops for an assault. Then while the troops are fighting you can turn the LRC towards another unit and lay down a ton of fire.

PhalanxLord
09-08-2009, 16:21
I use a Land Raider Redeemer in my SW force. I put some blood claws in it, move it up, and then charge the enemy. The fact that it allows me to get my blood claws in unmolested is well worth the 265pts for a LRR with extra armour and a MM. Plus once its there I can often use it to soften up enemy units or kill things. The MM can be used for emergency anti-tank and the ability to ignore cover saves with the flamestorm cannons is great. The assault cannon isn't that bad either.

Joewrightgm
09-08-2009, 16:26
I have found that they are; with the changes to vehicle damage and the power of the machine spirit rules, they are quite possibly the best non-super-heavy tank available in a standard game of Warhammer 40,000.

PrivateLucky
09-08-2009, 16:27
It depends on the land raider. A godhammer pattern cannot put out as much fire power as a crusader, but a redeemer is better then a crusader at its job in my opinion. Str 6 ap 3 flamer templates with a potential to wipe out a MeQ squad in one shot is sooooo awesome.

iluvatar18
09-08-2009, 16:29
I have found that they are; with the changes to vehicle damage and the power of the machine spirit rules, they are quite possibly the best non-super-heavy tank available in a standard game of Warhammer 40,000.

I'm sorry but that award goes to the Monolith.

Anyways, I am seeing where you're all coming from but I don't know if I want an 1/8th of my army to be one model. I mean for those points I can get an entire tactical squad in drop pod for less!

Vandelan
09-08-2009, 16:32
Land Raider Conundrum? What is that armed with?:D

Roguebaron
09-08-2009, 16:32
I miss my machine spirit in my chaos army...the one rule they cut that really affects my raiders.

massey
09-08-2009, 18:20
Don't use Land Raiders to deliver Tactical Squads. Rhinos are much cheaper and do basically the same job. Use Land Raiders to deliver the big stick. Otherwise, you're wasting your points. When something gets out of a Land Raider, it should be something that the opponent really doesn't want to see. Terminators, Vanguard Vets, something like that.

LonelyPath
09-08-2009, 19:36
I agree with massey, I use my raiders to deliver CC units and keep them safe until they can assault, a tactic that's remained tried and true over the years.

Loki73
09-08-2009, 19:39
Land raider crusaders are great for my wolves spewing forth 7 termies with lightning claws. plus if you move the crusader 6" or less you can fire all the weapons.

grissom2006
09-08-2009, 19:41
Land Raiders are good as long as you can keep them going and not going against the likes of Imperial Guard who can eat them up for breakfast along with Tau Broadsides. Almost anybody else you fight the odds swing in your favour

Joewrightgm
09-08-2009, 20:22
I'm sorry but that award goes to the Monolith.

Anyways, I am seeing where you're all coming from but I don't know if I want an 1/8th of my army to be one model. I mean for those points I can get an entire tactical squad in drop pod for less!

True about the monolith. Amended to "one of the best non-super heavy tanks . . ." :)

Choosing a Land Raider, in fact any unit in an army, is contingent to the list in which you include it; IE, If you feel like you have enough infantry to hold objectives, kill the enemy, etc, then a tank like Raider is a good choice.

The real question is "does this unit fit into the context of my list?", for example if you want an almost unstoppable bastion from which to hold the line or assault the enemy, then you would want a Land Raider.

The Phobos is a good pattern, capable of dealing with most threats on the table top.

The Crusader and Redeemer are great for getting stuck in; launching an assault with something as mundane as an assault squad without jump packs by turn 2 will have a few armies on the ropes. From there, they can rumble around the battlefield lighting up (literally in the case of the Redeemer) anything that gets in its way.

As others have said, its going to be affected by who you play; Rail gun heavy tau, or artillery/ anti-tank heavy guard are going to be a problem. Against orks, they have very little in the way to deal with something like that.

the1stpip
09-08-2009, 20:33
Land Raiders rarely make their points back, but there is more to it than that.

If it is carrying the close assault squad, surely if it gets the squad into combat, then it gets blown up but the assault squad kills lots, then technically, that is its points back.

Also, if it doesn't get destroyed, then it has nbot lost points, so that is also a bonus.

However, I agree, it is a Space marine tank, it is not meant to be stationary. The Space Marines now have three variants, and you will notice hardly any codex chapters field the original model anymore, as the Crysader and Redeemer fit the role so much better.

Redstormrisen
09-08-2009, 22:02
I dislike the vanilla Land Raider.

you're either wasting the Lascannons or the transport capacity.

The Crusader and Redeemer however, are much better with they're weapons being short range.

Raven Down
09-08-2009, 22:25
Are they worth it?

I'm probably one of the few people crazy enough to take Multiple Raiders.In games I'm not overly concerned about (Non tourny matches basically) I will run Four,Yes Four Raiders.It took a lot of practice but I've managed to get to grips with fielding that many in a single 2000pt match.
More serious Games I'll either just go full blown Drop pods or A single Raider to deliver Assualt Terminators

Lothlanathorian
09-08-2009, 23:42
I always used my Land Raider as a distraction. It is big, expensive, and dangerous. People want to shoot at it. They want it dead. I have won games because of people who are not thinking about tactics, they are thinking about killing that Land Raider, so the rest of my army manages to go unmolested and get into position.

iluvatar18
10-08-2009, 00:32
That's exactly how I use the Monolith.

I figured that's the best use for Land Raiders too, but in that cause, why do some people take 3 or 4?

guillimansknight
10-08-2009, 00:40
Depends who your fighting

If your fighting guys with troops designed to tackle amour no

But if your opponents use only tanks for AT then its more than worth it, hell it'll win that match.

starlight
10-08-2009, 00:40
Because one is scary, so three or more must be terrifying. :eek:

Most armies just don't bring enough high strength antitank to deal with four AV14 tanks...

It messes up opponents who lose sight of their own battle plan (assuming they had one) as they concentrate everything on the OMG Scary! Land Raiders... :(

Raven1
10-08-2009, 00:43
I like Land Raiders, but they must have a purpose. Also, as others have said stick something in there that packs a punch. In the old chaos dex, I put in possessed, now its Berezerkers. I wish I could have something like the crusader or the redeemer. Much better suited to the assault role then the normal variant.

Darkness_of_the_wolf
10-08-2009, 00:49
Are they worth it?

I'm probably one of the few people crazy enough to take Multiple Raiders.In games I'm not overly concerned about (Non tourny matches basically) I will run Four,Yes Four Raiders.It took a lot of practice but I've managed to get to grips with fielding that many in a single 2000pt match.
More serious Games I'll either just go full blown Drop pods or A single Raider to deliver Assualt Terminators

so basically your saying you will run half your army as 4 tanks?

Doppleskanger
10-08-2009, 00:51
Not saying they won't work, because obviously some of you are doing it, but, in a ton of tourney games and all my friendlies I have never, not once not ever, actually let my oponents landraider open that assault ramp and unload a close combat squad into my lines. In fairness I normally have a lot of anti tank, be it railguns, twin linked las cans or attack bike mounted multi meltas, but even so, 250 points normally goes bang by the end of the first turn. Having said all that, I've never had one of my own, so I never got to know their advantages. i guess if I were to go with LR's I'd go with two rather than one.

Giganthrax
10-08-2009, 02:02
Land Raiders own. Not only are the models awesome, but when utilized correctly they can really be the spearhead of your army.

Basically, put something nasty inside and rush it towards the enemy. There's no better way to get it there.

Netfreakk
10-08-2009, 02:18
I play DA, and I like using a LR to deliver my termies and also be a screen for something else in my army ie: bikes. This way I can transport my termies so they dont' get shot to crap before they reach their destination as well as have some sort of backup that can't be targeted due to blocked LOS.

Tactics change for different missions, but you get the idea. LRs are good for some purposes, but I can see why you wouldn't want to run one/more if you have a more tact-marine style army and tons of Drop pods. Why change your working army if it's working? IMO if anything your opponents should change their tactics / army to counter yours.

starlight
10-08-2009, 02:32
...because changing your tactics is:

1) the sign of a good general
2) a way of keeping your opponents on their toes
3) part of keeping the game fresh
4) pretty much required if you want to try out new models
5) all of the above. :p

iluvatar18
10-08-2009, 02:41
...because changing your tactics is:

1) the sign of a good general
2) a way of keeping your opponents on their toes
3) part of keeping the game fresh
4) pretty much required if you want to try out new models
5) all of the above. :p

You're right with those points. That's half the reason I want to change my army. The tactics i am using will be completely changing from all drop to all vehicles.

It keeps me learning the game and how stuff works. Makes me a better player. That's why i want to know if Land Raiders would be worth it.

the1stpip
10-08-2009, 07:51
I have a friend who runs 3 LRR in 1500 pts, and does very well with them.

Latro_
10-08-2009, 10:22
Taking one land raider isn't too much of a problem for your opponent.
If you take two then he's going to be bricking it and rightly so, they work much better in pairs.

Loaded with TH/SS termies and its just crying time for the enemy.
Problem ofc is this is like 1000pts so you best be buying the rest in troops.

I play CSM, So my 1k WE army is:
LR
LR
8 bezerkers, champ PF
7 bezerkers, champ PF
Kharn

:P its fun.

Petay1985
10-08-2009, 10:48
I have fielded land raiders, land raider crusaders and land raider helios' over the years, all used to great success in most circumstances!!

Definitely worth the points outlay!!

carldooley
10-08-2009, 11:11
for lovers of templates, remember that this time around, you can give techmarines both a bike and a full servo-harness. Being able to fix immobolized or a weapon destroyed result on your expensive, transporting tank on a 4+ is well worth it, considering that the blessing is used on the shooting phase this time around.

jams86
10-08-2009, 11:17
mounted fire dragons are not a LR's best friend.

in the last 3 games we've played, i've managed to melt my gaming buddy's crusader by the second turn :D

shabbadoo
10-08-2009, 11:44
In general, I'd say the LRC with a pintel-mounted multi-melta is the LR of choice. It can cruise forward 6" and fire everything, including firing the multi-melta at a separate target. And it can of course hold more troops. Assault Terminators seem the best option for the transport unit, though a large unit of Black Templars or Space Wolves would work well too as they can take full advantage of the additional transport capacity of a LRC. I'd only go with a standard LR if I had very few or no other long range anti-armor support units in my army. This goes for whatever marine chapter you might play.

Fixer
10-08-2009, 12:08
The regular Land Raider suffers from having several different roles, none of which mesh well effectively.

Long range weapons and a delivery mechanism for terminators do not mix. The shorter range and more powerful weapons of the Crusader and the Redeemer are much better. You hit point blank range to deliver the payload and cause come significate suffering while you are there.

The Redeemer wins out of me in this regard. The expanded capacity of the Crusader isn't required for my small terminator unit. Since the unit is moving 12" a lot of the time the hurricane bolters aren't going to make much impact and since the Assault Cannons/Multimelta get used for tank hunting in most situations they're somewhat superfluous.

The Crusader is only better than the redeemer if you're moving 6" and targeting all weapons at a single nearby unit. Otherwise I say the Redeemer is the better choice, 12" move, one Flamestorm shot can wipe out an entire MEQ unit in one go. Awesome if you have an enemy squad cowering in cover or nicely bunched up from a friendly tankshock, forced disembark or a destroyed vehicle.

Grand Master Raziel
10-08-2009, 14:59
Land Raider Conundrum? What is that armed with?:D

Why, Mystery pattern Enigma cannons, of course! ;)


Not saying they won't work, because obviously some of you are doing it, but, in a ton of tourney games and all my friendlies I have never, not once not ever, actually let my oponents landraider open that assault ramp and unload a close combat squad into my lines.

Yeah, but I bet the rest of your opponent's army went relatively unmolested for that first turn. That's the unwritten third use for LRs (or really any SM gun tank) - to draw fire from Rhinos. Smoking your opponent's Land Raider in the first turn is good, but if it takes all your antitank firepower to do it and allows your opponent to roll up four Rhinos full of bad news, then it's not so good. I'd rather actually eat the assault of whatever comes out of a LR and pop all of my opponent's Rhinos than go to the wall stopping the LR and letting the Rhinos successfully get their squads where my opponent wants them.

Captain Micha
10-08-2009, 15:05
Agreed with GMR, the LR has multiple uses one being a Scare Tactic.

Actually it's one that the Spike Marine guys, and the Loyal Marine guys use on newer players, *or just people that have never dealt with LRs before* is that basically someone sees the stats for a LR and goes something like this.

"HOLY CRAP ARE YOU JOKING?"

Then they see what it can carry as Deadly Cargo *such as Termies... or if your really cruel.. Chosen, and then Termies Deep Strike in somewhere else... leaving you just open mouthed in horror as you realized you dumped all that fire to stop a raider to only find Chosen in it* and immediately their opponents start unloading MASSIVE amounts of Anti Tank at it, to Make It Stop, or Die.

That was one of the first lessons I learned when Fighting Marines, is to actually Ignore the Land Raider, in favor of other units. *note since the Guard have been updated my strategy of dealing with Raiders is quite abit different if I'm packing Devil Dogs. :evilgrin: *

Because as nasty as the Raider and it's Cargo is, the Rhinos on the table are much worse.

This results in a tank that is almost never fired upon, unless I'm playing guard and had the foresight to bring my Devil Dog equipped List.

I think the Raider is worth it. As a BT Player I wish my Crusader was cheaper, but I can deal. *I do play em from time to time.. but only small games and only when I can bum a Land Raider off of someone* The thing absorbs so much firepower before it goes down. and it lets the rest of my army get close in, where they need to be.

Then the termies come down :p

Badger[Fr]
10-08-2009, 15:10
Another nasty tactic is to fill a Land Raider (or even better, a Chaos Land Raider) with a cheap troop choice and use it as a scoring Av14 unit. A Falcon with Holofields carrying a 5-man Dire Avenger squad can also do the trick...

wartorngetahroun74
10-08-2009, 15:13
It really depends on the size of games that we play. But I always field at least two Land Raiders. I like the base version because of the lascannons. Ive not had the chance to use the Redeemer yet, but would eventually love to.

the1stpip
10-08-2009, 15:55
I personally love the Redeemer. It is the weapon of choice if you are carrying assault troops into the heart of the enemy.

And it is always equipped with a multimelta.

Captain Micha
10-08-2009, 16:01
what makes the Redeemer so hot?

*don't have a smurf book nearby, and I'm not familiar with every entry in it*

starlight
10-08-2009, 17:12
Templates that wound Marines on 2+, ignore Power Armour, ignore Cover...for starters...

BigBadBull
10-08-2009, 18:46
I run As many as the points Allow. I got 10 built with another 4 primed waiting on Chapter doors.

LRC seem to be every one's fav's right now , but The good old godwin pattern ( TL LAS, TLHB) as still good , especially if you have a lot of Armor to deal with , which in may areas is the case ( IG Ork MEQ)

Orktavius
10-08-2009, 19:43
I've yet to be disapointed with the performance of my Redeemer, but as has been said the LR is really a BIG stick delivery system....like vulcan and 5 TH/SS termies in my army

the1stpip
10-08-2009, 22:17
I've yet to be disapointed with the performance of my Redeemer, but as has been said the LR is really a BIG stick delivery system....like vulcan and 5 TH/SS termies in my army

That is pretty much how I use it. Move 12", fire one weapon (MM or AC, depending on vehicles in range or not).