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broxus
09-08-2009, 20:31
I wanted to come here and get some opinions on how people run their Leman Russes. I currenly play mainly Space Marine opponets and have had real problems with killing them in cover.

I currently have been using the LRBT with a hull heavy bolter, and plasma cannon sponsons. The problem is that any smart player spreads his guys apart so you dont really kill many SM's with the plasma, not to mention the cover saves he will get. The battlecannon is still awesome with its long range and deadly blast against any army.

I was also thinking of possibly changing my LRBT's to possibly use Heavy Bolter Sponsons, Hull Heavy Bolter, and Heavy Stubber. This option is 10pts cheaper than the one I am currently using and gives me a total of 12 shots plus the Battle Cannon.

What do you guys use to kill SM's? What are your favorite versions of Leman Russes? I know the Demolisher is popular also but I dont like the short range on it.

ehlijen
09-08-2009, 20:42
Keep the plasmas. When he starts teleporting in terminators you will start loving those things.

As for space marines in cover, that's not really a Russ' job. Maybe a punishers, but generallly your own entrenched infantry and artillery is meant to be dealing with marines in cover. Once he is in cover, forget trying to go through his 3+ save unless you can ignore cover as well. Saturation of shots is what matters and in that respect an all HB russ would be good, but: You can get heavy bolters in every FO slot. You can't get plasma cannons nearly as easily.

As for me, Demolisher all the way. I find that, while I'd like 36" range, 24" is enough 90% of the time as either I'm advancing anyway or he is rushing me.

starlight
09-08-2009, 20:43
Colossus. :D

Try it, you'll like it. :)

Alternatively, for twice the Pie for the same price, the Griffon is a good choice. :) You do lose the Save/Cover denying aspects, but as said you get twice the Pie at the same Str...which is good for stacking wounds and for use against Hordes. :) Magnets let you try both until you figure which works for you. :)

Otherwise the IG doesn't have a LR that denies both Cover *and* 3+ Saves...

broxus
09-08-2009, 20:52
I am not looking for something to take away the cover saves but how I can saturate a SM squad to start taking serious loses espeically those darn combat squads with lascannons.

I was thinking the second setup would force them to take plenty of saves that they are bound to fail over a few turns.

I use Vendettas for my anti tank roles, my LR's are my anti infantry.

ehlijen
09-08-2009, 20:56
Hellhounds are good, sentinel squads are ok. Lagre numbers of your own infantry with heavy bolters or autocannons are the most cost effective and ratlings are good at making those combat squads (which are likely only going to be ld8) go to ground.

The russ you described is also good, but I'd still advise to keeping the plasmas as they are very handy vs termies as well.

Lotoc_Sabbath
09-08-2009, 21:06
This is my opinion....

many sm players think terminators are absolutely fantastic and immortal and teleporting them in the middle of your troops is not a problem...false they die in this case because a heuge amount of fire gets concentrated into them. For Leman russes I use 3 tapers of combination:
1) 3 Lemans: works against anyone:
2 demolishers with metlas
1 executioner with plasmas

work very good is you move them toghether. Demolishers can also deal many damage on vehicles and no one escapes from the EXECUTIONER

2)4 Lemans: works against anyone:
2 executioners with plasmas
1 punisher with Heavy bolters
1 Demolishers with melta

This has heavy effect on infantry for the executioners fire and the punisher support fire+ the demolisher anti-infantry/vehicle weaps make it a really good way. This combination effects any army because it has lots of fire.

3) 5 leman Russes: works with SM and tough/expensive infantry mainly
3 Executioners with plasmas
2 Demolishers only one with meltas

a huge point cost but enormously effective against SMs and CO. because of the concentrated but heavy fire.
EXECUTIONERS have no problems with some few infantry...remember; crucial point they don't really work against ork and tyranids.
Demolishers are agood anti vehicle and if they scatter they can easily get some infantry.

I THINK...this are the best formations as I use only these...I tryed others but I prefer these...

StefDa
09-08-2009, 21:54
As I played Armoured Company before, I prefer to include a significant number of vehiclular manslaughter. One Heavy Support selection I always end up going with:

3x Leman Russ Battle Tank : 165 pts each/495 pts total.
- Hull lascannons.

Can't go wrong with that much firepower.

Lord Cook
09-08-2009, 22:06
All of the Leman Russ really struggle with heavy infantry in cover. For that you really need heavy artillery.

Two Griffons are 150 points. They can lay down a large quantity of wounds. Marines still get their 3+ save, but with twice the wounds think of it like forcing them to re-roll the 3+ save if they pass. That makes them more likely to die than just giving them the straight 4+ cover they would get from a battle cannon. Russ carry secondary weapons as well, but the Griffons are more accurate with the main shells.

Colossus are 140 points. S6, Ap3, ignores cover. Inaccurate, but if it hits it will really paste the target.

grissom2006
09-08-2009, 22:40
If the cover is the issue change it to the Eradicator version i'd say

ehlijen
09-08-2009, 22:45
The Eradicator is good in general, but against marines it's a bit silly as they'd still get their armour save. No russ can remove both power armour and cover saves.

StefDa
10-08-2009, 00:10
The Eradicator is good in general, but against marines it's a bit silly as they'd still get their armour save. No russ can remove both power armour and cover saves.

That is true, so the Eradicator would suck in this case, at it would allow the Marines their 3+ save, whereas a standard Battle Tank would deny them their 3+ and only give them their 4+ (or whatever) cover save.

Bunnahabhain
10-08-2009, 00:11
2 or 3 Griffons.

The Collussus will paste them if it hits, but that is a big if.

2 Griffons should put out about as many wounds on marines- the extra hits from the two blasts, and better accuracy balance the save they get. The slight added resilience from having 2, the extra heavy bolter/flamer, and massive improvement against 4+ or worse saves makes them the better buy.

Lord Merlin
10-08-2009, 01:08
I run 2 LRBTs and 1 demolisher. I use each one in a separate HQ choice as my other choices are rather limited. When the need arises the Vanquisher rears its rather long snout to take out enemy armor, although its crap for anything else.

For Marines in cover I like to plaster them with pie plates. I run plasma sponsons on the Demolisher. The only other variant I see being especially good against covered marines would be the Executioner regardless of the spread three plasma blasts, plus two plasma sponsons, gives you five small blasts on them. You ought to be able to cover most if not all of a squad with that many blasts.

ThePrecious
10-08-2009, 05:41
In one game my partner took out an entire 1000 pt marine force with one plasma sponson executioner(and a few other things, but mainly the executioner) by the end of turn 3, no marines left on the table.

Some people hate vanquishers, but I find that with knight commander pask and a lascannon, anything you decide will die, dies. It is a rather expensive build at about 220 points, but against armor heavy marine lists, it kills. If no other targets are left it kills infantry and terminators. The BS 4 and +1 to armor penetration with the 2d6 armor penetration really ends enemy armor.

decker_cky
10-08-2009, 05:59
I'd say the banewolf is probably a better choice for dealing with MEQs in cover than any russ chassis, and the option of shooting the hull flamer at non-3+ save stuff means it's not just a focused marine killer. Scare the marines into cover with your russes, then melt them with the banewolf.

Cythus
10-08-2009, 10:27
I second the banewolf

it can move 24" and then fiire its primary weapon which will wound on 2+ with marines getting no armour or cover saves

Barbarossa
10-08-2009, 12:26
I usually take a LRBT with full Heavy Bolter loadout + hvy. stubber and a Demolisher with laser and plasmacannons. The first is used against normal marines in cover and the second one against either Termies or light vehicles if no heavy infantry is present.
The LRBT works quite well against normal marines due to its high number of shots.

Pholostan
10-08-2009, 12:51
it can move 24" and then fiire its primary weapon which will wound on 2+ with marines getting no armour or cover saves

You mean 12" right?

A Banewolf is a fast vehicle, that means that it can move 18" at flat out. A fast vehicle moving at flat out may not fire any weapon. I may move at cruising speed (i.e. 12") and fire one weapon and all defensive. That's nice :) The wounding at 2+, no cover and AP3 really makes it a marine killer. :evilgrin:

Cythus
10-08-2009, 12:56
You mean 12" right?

A Banewolf is a fast vehicle, that means that it can move 18" at flat out. A fast vehicle moving at flat out may not fire any weapon. I may move at cruising speed (i.e. 12") and fire one weapon and all defensive. That's nice :) The wounding at 2+, no cover and AP3 really makes it a marine killer. :evilgrin:

I mean 18", as the chem cannon is a defensive weapon (str1)

So it's move 18" place flamer template and wound those pesky SMs on 2+ with no cover or armour saves

StefDa
10-08-2009, 12:58
If it moves 18", it is moving at the speed Flat Out, which means the crew focus entirely on driving and not shooting. If it moves 12" it can, unlike non-Fast vehicles, fire one man weapon and any defensive weapons. This happens to be the heavy flamer (S5+=main) and chem cannon (S4<=defensive).

The Marshel
10-08-2009, 13:06
i cant be sure, as i dont know where my rule book is, but if you move maximum movement, you simply dont get to shoot

Captain Micha
10-08-2009, 13:33
I'm a Colossus man myself. *never tried the Griffon... I see STR 4 and I go "lol noob artillery" I just can't help it really... I can't take the Griffon seriously*

Everytime I show my Smurf guys the list someone always weeps a little when they see it.

They'll actually stay in cover less because of it *mainly because now they are going out of their way to destroy it :p * which allows my Las Plas Russes to do some serious damage. :evilgrin:

Col_Festus
10-08-2009, 13:56
Use the executioner. The tank is amazing at trashing smurfs and MEQs. It drops 5 plasma cannon templates around. Its the bane of every MEQ opponent I play. Also many people haven't mentioned it but the punisher is not a bad alternative. Its about as good as a leman russ when squads are big, but as they get smaller you start stacking wounds on those critical models... Plasma sponsons are always a must. I typically run 2 Russ varients every game (ps havnt lost with my guard with their new dex yet ;) )
1st choice is a decked out executioner, plasma sponsons, heavy bolter hull, extra armor, heavy stubber. 2nd I pick up a squadron of 2 plain ol leman russes with 3 heavy bolters, and stubbors. Finally I take either a collosus or a medusa.

Pholostan
10-08-2009, 14:17
I've used an Eradicator, but the short range kinda hurt it. The Punisher fells like rubbish, way overpriced. Usually ordinary Russes without sponsons do a good job, plain ones is cheap enough that you can take two of them. I haven't tried the Executioner yet, but I will. A CSM player here usually tries to outshoot me and then hit me with raptors+sorcerer with lash. Need to teach him a lesson...

Basilisks are decent. I have two. I want to try a Colossus and lots of Griffons :)

Zoring
10-08-2009, 14:36
I'm a Colossus man myself. *never tried the Griffon... I see STR 4 and I go "lol noob artillery" I just can't help it really... I can't take the Griffon seriously*

Everytime I show my Smurf guys the list someone always weeps a little when they see it.

They'll actually stay in cover less because of it *mainly because now they are going out of their way to destroy it :p * which allows my Las Plas Russes to do some serious damage. :evilgrin:

Griffon is Strength 6 AP 4 innit?

MarshalFaust
10-08-2009, 16:30
yes it is STR 6

Lord Cook
10-08-2009, 16:35
I mean 18", as the chem cannon is a defensive weapon (str1)

So it's move 18" place flamer template and wound those pesky SMs on 2+ with no cover or armour saves

No, a Fast vehicle can only move 18" at maximum speed. Doing so means you can't fire any weapons. If the Bane Wolf slows down to 12", it can fire one main and all defensive.

Only Fast Skimmers can move 24".


I'm a Colossus man myself. *never tried the Griffon... I see STR 4

Except the Griffon is S6 Ap4.

EDIT: Ninja'd at least once.

Captain Micha
10-08-2009, 16:39
Griffon is Strength 6 AP 4 innit?

My bad. My Rules Fu this last week has been TERRIBLE.

Zoring
10-08-2009, 16:45
My plan for a pure-badass anti-tank unit (expensive and sub-optimal points wise but cool imo)

Russ Vanquisher, Lascannon, Hunter-Killer, Pask
Russ Vanquisher, Lascannon

400 Points

You could also get 3x Devil Dogs with Multi-Meltas and Smoke Launchers for 420 points, which would be a pretty mean unit. Lacks that big 72" range however!

40k Boy
10-08-2009, 16:57
I've got three Basilisks, they do so well when i actually field them; i've been quite surprised. I was looking at getting a Medusa, Colossus/Bombard or Hydra from FW, and had never intended to considor the griffon, but after seeing the model from the back and seeing its internal detail i'm gonna order two, they are just the coolest looking piece of artillery going imo. Medusa's seem to be good, but are direct and short range. Manticores though, are another thing entirely.... :)

DartzIRL
10-08-2009, 19:39
I just finished a new Executioner with a lascannon and a pair of Plasma Cannon....

In it's first game so far it removed a squad of Terminators on the first turn. It removed a full tactical squad the next. It took three turns to remove a squad of Devastators from a building, and on the final turn, erased the Command squad that had been contesting one objective.

About 240 points, and I think it killed 3 times it's cost in one 1500pt game. Suffice to say, I'd use it again. Even if it is borderline cheesy.

Which ended up pretty much being a draw in the end... an objective apiece.

broxus
10-08-2009, 20:22
My plan for a pure-badass anti-tank unit (expensive and sub-optimal points wise but cool imo)

Russ Vanquisher, Lascannon, Hunter-Killer, Pask
Russ Vanquisher, Lascannon

400 Points

You could also get 3x Devil Dogs with Multi-Meltas and Smoke Launchers for 420 points, which would be a pretty mean unit. Lacks that big 72" range however!


The only problem is that you could get 3 Vendetta's that would do a better job. Thats a total of 9 Twin Linked Lascannon shots per turn that can fire at diffrent targets.

BrotherMoses
11-08-2009, 04:24
Give him a pretty pink dress and braid his hair into swedish looking pigtails. :D

MajorWesJanson
11-08-2009, 05:24
The only problem is that you could get 3 Vendetta's that would do a better job. Thats a total of 9 Twin Linked Lascannon shots per turn that can fire at diffrent targets.

True, but those would eat up all three FA slots. And they are bigger targets.

I have more than once hid a vanquisher behind some ruins with the gun poking out a window, good for cover.

broxus
11-08-2009, 18:49
I changed up my tank slots in todays game with excellent results. I used the following:

1X LRBT with Heavy Bolter Hull weapons, Heavy Bolter Sponsons, and Heavy Stubber
1X LRBT with Heavy Bolter Hull weapons, Heavy Bolter Sponsons, and Heavy Stubber
1X Executioner with Hull Heavy Bolter and Plasma Cannon Sponsons

I just have to say this combo put serious pain on his SM's The Executioner is just plain awesome and killed over 750 points of his models. The LRBT did very well also with laying down lots of shots forcing him to take lots of wounds. The total cost of this setup is only 20 points more than my previous choices and hurts him alot more.

Any other ideas of some setups

Lord Cook
11-08-2009, 21:26
For the Executioner, a hull heavy flamer would actually be handy. It makes for an excellent defensive weapon if infantry charge you but fail to kill it, particularly for units like Genestealers and such like. With Av11 survival is actually possible, and the heavy bolter isn't really doing much against the kind of targets you want to fire your plasma cannons at.

starlight
11-08-2009, 21:28
Interesting point. :)

isaac
11-08-2009, 21:32
Agreed hull HF on close range tanks over HB, but for the executioner I would take a lascannon if you can spare the points, otherwise HF.