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Bunny Lord
09-08-2009, 21:10
Lord
Bloodthirster- awesome strength armor off khorne 540

Great unclean one- LVL 4 trappings of nurgle noxious vapors 645

Heros
Herald Of Tzeench- charriot master of sorcery 200

Herald Of Tzeench- charriot master of sorcery 200

Herald Of Tzeench- charriot master of sorcery 200

Core
10 horrors 120

10 horrors 120

10 horrors 120

10 bloodletters 120

Special
5 flesh hounds 175

5 flesh hounds 175

5 flesh hounds 175

Rare
3 flamers 105

3 flamers 105

3000 on the nose
15+ casting dice
10 despell dice
66 models

Short Sweet and KILLY... what do you think?

Dooks Dizzo
10-08-2009, 02:21
Easily demolished by anyone who knows what they're doing.

The Heralds are in tiny units which will get blown to pieces by any self respecting cavalry.

The GUO is a pain but can be ignored.
The Blood Thirster is easily dealt with by most the upper tier armies these days.

All in all I think it's a rather nice daemons list.

Bunny Lord
10-08-2009, 02:43
The heralds are in flying charriots good luck catching those and if your shooting them your not shooting the bloodthirster or GUO.

The bloodthirster is there for big stuff.

The thing about the list is that even if you kill all the heralds the flamers horrors and letters that's only like 1200 points. The only way to get a lot of points is to kill the hard to kill stuff which is designed to live.

What do you think would be a "mean" daemon list?

TheSanityAssassin
10-08-2009, 04:50
Not that I want to make Daemons more scary, but I'd consider Obsidian Armour on that Bloodthirster....I like the idea of magic weapons not working, which would make him even more invulnerable. Axe of Khorne for Killing Blow is handy too, deal with pesky high armour re-gen guys like Tyrion, or annoying Nurgle Heralds if you have to play more Daemons.

I guess I can see some nasty stuff there, but it doesn't strike fear into my soul the way some daemon lists have. As said above, that GUO is largely avoidable, and I'm not sure if Noxious Vapours is the best idea for him. His killing capacity isn't exactly huge, and whether striking first or last his shtick is surviving, which he'll do with aplomb. Think about that one where you can't get flanked...work on saving him Vs. Combat Rez rather than direct damage. The two ways he'll die will be rez or flaming cannons or somesuch. His 4 WS4 attacks aren't doing a big wack against something people would be willing to throw into combat with him, even if he does go first.

The Thirster build is (to me at least) one of the weaker ones, even though they're always nasty. The Tzeench heralds will keep casting, but they're a TON of points spent on middling return to me.

The core...well really it's there to fill slots, we all know it...looks fine. Hounds as well, evil things will do their job. Dropping one of those Heralds for more Flamers would up the "evil" level of the list a fair bit I would say.

All in all, I love the list at 3000 points...I think it will compete fairly well against most people, and not be really over-powered. The problem is that we're talking about 'Ard Boyz, and there are TONS of lists that will way out-rude this one.....

Jind_Singh
10-08-2009, 07:05
Lord
Bloodthirster- awesome strength armor off khorne 540
not the best value for his points, I prefer armour of Khorne, imortal fury, and dark insanity so he packs 2D6 + 2 hits allowing reroll to hit!
Great unclean one- LVL 4 trappings of nurgle noxious vapors 645
trappings is fine, slime trail is even better! drop the vapours
Heros
Herald Of Tzeench- charriot master of sorcery 200
fine build for heralds but would it not be interesting to get at least 1 or 2 with power vortex to add to your power pool? You will be relying on these heralds a lot to wipe out unit after unit with their shooting spells so more power die is always better!
Herald Of Tzeench- charriot master of sorcery 200

Herald Of Tzeench- charriot master of sorcery 200

Core
10 horrors 120
the horrors could really do with a standard and the icon that adds + 1 to casting, then they become a more dependable casting unit as basic spell goes off on a 3+
10 horrors 120

10 horrors 120

10 bloodletters 120
personal preference but I'd probably go with 10 deamonettes as the extra 1" move will allow them to almost keep pace with the fleshounds, they make good flanking units, and extra attacks always help
Special
5 flesh hounds 175
standard units of death
5 flesh hounds 175

5 flesh hounds 175

Rare
3 flamers 105
deadly buggers but sadly you are only packing six in total
3 flamers 105

3000 on the nose
15+ casting dice
10 despell dice
66 models

Short Sweet and KILLY... what do you think?

Well overall its ok for a list - your weakness is the GUO - he's great but you need speed with such a small elite army. Heralds are zipping round in chariots, thirster rampaging forwards with the hounds, but the GUO is plodding along! A Lord of Change or Keeper of Secrets would be better choices, LoC for magic offensive, the KoS to increase your combat effectiviness.
I know you want 2 GD in the army but I like to take 1 - the points saved on the second allow you to address some key points - a BSB would be crucial I feel especially as DoC have some of the best bannors out there! -2 to leadership, affecting magic casting - endless choices!
You can field more units - units of fiends (3 strong) would give you hammer units with 12 str 4 attacks with a 20" charge AND toughness 4!!! They would be fast moving support for the other zippy units and allow you get in peoples faces. They work great in supporting charges on tough units with the thirster....

Bunny Lord
10-08-2009, 15:26
Okay, so what i've gathered is that I should drop the GUO and grab either a 2nd thirster (for stupid amounts of killyness) or a lord of change (to help my magic phase since it might be too weak with 2 thirsters).

So, if I go with the 2nd thirster I'd have 100 points to play with that I could dump into flamers. I'm also tempted to drop the 3rd herald to get more flamers, but then I might have no magic phase at all.

So this is what the remade list looks like.

Lord
Thirster- awesome strength armor of khorne 540

Thirster- armor of khorne immortal fury dark insanity 545

Heros
Herald of Tzeench- charriot master of sorcery 200

Herald of Tzeench- charriot master of sorcery 200

Herald of Tzeench- charriot master of sorcery spell breaker 225

Core
10 horrors 120

10 horrors 120

10 horrors 120

10 bloodletters 120

Special
5 flesh hounds 175

5 flesh hounds 175

5 flesh hounds 175

Rare
4 flamers 140

4 flamers 140

What do you think of this?

Bunny Lord
10-08-2009, 22:17
As of late i've also been thinking of only taking 1 greter daemon what do you think of that?

TheSanityAssassin
11-08-2009, 02:29
The above list looks a lot scarier, but as said, it really neuters your magic defense, which could be a bit of a problem against some things. If you're going to take the second Greater I would suggest a Lord of Change, as he can still fly, keeping up with/supporting the Thirster, or if he takes the other flank, he can still beat up smaller units on his own so long as you remember his combat limitations.

I kind of like the idea of only taking one Greater Daemon though. Two is scary, but it leaves you really thin, and if someone focuses on blasting monsters, you could be in trouble. Dropping a Thirster could get you a BSB herald, a couple upgrades for the Horrors to boost their effectiveness, and MORE FLAMERS!

Where do you live by the way....if you're showing up to MY 'Ard Boyz I probably shouldn't be helping! I could have beaten up your first list....it's starting to get to the point that I cant.

Bunny Lord
11-08-2009, 02:47
Thanks, I appreciate the help! I might just go with 1 greater daemon and see what I can do there, i'll write up a list and then let me know what you think of it.

haha, don't worry i'm from jersey I don't think you need to worry about me if your all the way in Ontario.

TheSanityAssassin
11-08-2009, 04:15
Will do!

Certainly not planning on heading down to the States unless I freakishly qualify for later rounds....and given there will be AT LEAST 3 past Canadian GT champions in my prelim, I'm doubting that will happen.

My goal, as stated before is simply not to be massacred 3 times.

Bunny Lord
11-08-2009, 14:53
Okay this is the list I made with only 1 greater daemon.

Lord
Thrister- awesome strength armor of khorne 540

Heros
Herald of tzeench- charriot- master of sorcery 200

Herald of tzeench- charriot- master of sorcery 200

Herald of tzeench- charriot- BSB icon of despair 275

Core
10 horrors 120

10 horrors 120

10 horrors 120

10 bloodletters 120

Special
5 flesh hounds 175

5 flesh hounds 175

5 flesh hounds 175

5 flesh hounds 175

5 flesh hounds 175

Rare
4 flamers 140

4 flamers 140

4 flamers 140

What do you think of that? are the extra flamers flesh hounds and BSB worth not having a 2nd greater daemons?

Jind_Singh
11-08-2009, 15:31
exchange a unit of fleshounds for fiends of slaanesh, and you can move the 4 flamers over to make 2 units of 6 - then you got a really zippy, fast, killy unit!
I personally like to go for the sundering standard as it's a nice -2 to cast for the enemy wizards and it really helps dominate magic.
I still think immortal fury is a million times better than higher strength as it means more succesfull hits - you only hit on a 3+...EVER...wereas most times you will be wounding on 2's anyway so statistically hitting is the iffy statistic
dark insanity means at worst 4 attacks but on average he'll pack 9 attacks and at best 14! I seen it happen way too many times to ignore the combo! Also with the random attacks I found it phases my enemy generals. when you know he has only 7 base attacks you know what 1/3 will miss, so 2 misses. From 5 hits you will fluff 1 wound - so 4 kills. SCR on a normal unit is 5 (3 ranks, Std, outnumber) so you need to roll above average to win. With the dark insanity they cant math hammer your principal killer!
If you want to keep 3 units of 4 flamers for shooting and dont like fiends then drop a unit of fleshounds in place of 4 bases of nurglings, and spend the remaining points on bannors for all 3 horror units - this is a must as casting your basic missle on 3+ is amazing! It really makes the horrors a dependable unit!
speaking of which i also like power vortex and winged horror for a herald or 2, then they can deploy with the horrors giving the unit 4+ ward save - allowing for them to survive hidous attacks. But when u need him to move he can fly 20"......

Bunny Lord
11-08-2009, 16:12
Okay, i can deffinetly see the point in the bloodthirster combo your using, but mine is there to blow the crap out of dragons, chaos knights, hydras, stuff like that. In which case i'd be wounding even dragons on 2's and tearing through 1+ saves. If I have to kill infantry I have US 5 fly charriots and 5 units of flesh hounds. Why would I drop 1 unit of flesh hounds for nurglings? They wouldn't add anything. I haven't tried fiends out due to lack of models, and I dont really want to have to buy them when i'm already buying a box of hounds, 2 flamers, and 2 horror boxes. :(

Jind_Singh
11-08-2009, 19:15
Why nurglings? Because they are some of the most cost-effective troop choices out there! I have NEVER been let down by my 4 bases of nurglings.

1) They scout - ever seen what they do when they start hidden in woods somewere on the battlefield! Great for annoying the hell out of the enemy, they will march block him or disrupt the battle plan
2) 12 posion attacks - in 2 different games they charged giants and brought the bugger down - they are as hard to kill as normal core deamons (T3 with ward save) but they are resiliant as they have 12 wounds in total
3) They skirmish - make lovely screens to hide some of your other troops

Basically they frustrate the heck out of the enemy - another tactic is have them walk behind enemy units so when they get broken from the front they run into the nurglings - this avoids to having chase down an enmey when the pursuit will do me more harm than good (getting stuck in terrian for eg)

I know how you feel about having to fork out on the fiends but they truly are a golden investment for any daemon army. Those puppies have charged chaos knights 3 times and brought them down! OK so they charged the knights flank - but with 20" charge it's easy to do, and they go down HARD !
Think of them as Ogres on speed!
As for the Thirster combo - anything goes as he's a death dealer - but these days the highest toughness out there is 6 - so he'll still wound on 4's - were as there are more troops out there than monstors.
I know that you have heralds on chariots as back up but dont forget - if your using the HoT to charge in their chariots they wont be casting spells as I think only 1 of their spell from 6 works in close combat - so now your missing out on burning the enemy with your nasty magic missle - so with the other thirster combo you have a dude that can still kick large monstors firmly in the nuts AND wipe out infantary - but either way you'll be fine as both combinations work
The list with only 1 thirster works better - it's always better to have more units than less!
Good luck