PDA

View Full Version : prince sigvald is he worth it?



Krom The Eternal
10-08-2009, 00:24
prince sigvald is he worth it to make a spot for in your WoC army the points seem reasonable just suffering from stupidity seems to be his downfall
and not suffering a penalty for movig though difficult and very difficult terrain seems too good to pass up

Condottiere
10-08-2009, 00:46
Chances that he's stupid are slight - it seems a very good investment.

fubukii
10-08-2009, 01:00
isnt he stubborn or something cool like that? and ld10? with asf?

with a stellar statline?

I forget if he has a ward, but he seems good to me.

swarmofseals
10-08-2009, 01:03
He's powerful in combat, has respectable survivability and is stubborn on leadership 10 -- all fantastic qualities.

Stupidity is annoying, but not a big issue since he has such high leadership.

The way I see it, his biggest weakness is that he is a 425 point model with movement 4. 425 is a lot of points for one model, so you really need him to be in combat quickly to get the full benefit, and at M4 that isn't very easy to accomplish. Granted, his ignore terrain and always march rules help in this regard, but do they help enough?

The other major problem is the opportunity cost -- this is the exact issue that makes chaos lords problematic in general. Taking a chaos lord makes an already killy unit, well, more killy. He doesn't do anything your troops can't already do in terms of combat prowess. A Sorcerer lord, on the other hand, can be absolutely devastating at range, thus adding a whole new dimension to your army.

Arguleon-veq
10-08-2009, 02:15
He is great for a Chaos Lord on foot....Its just that he is a Chaos Lord on foot :p

Really as has been said, combat characters dont really add that much to a Chaos Army.

Stubborn is nice, I think Chaos Lords are best served on monsterous mounts or disks if you have to take one though.

If you run very expensive infantry blocks then he may be worth it to keep them sticking around.

How about using him in conjunction with 10 Slaanesh Power Dice in order to either use Titilating Delusions to make the enemy come at him, or Hysterical Frenzy to make the enemy charge him.

TheSanityAssassin
10-08-2009, 05:27
He makes High Elves cry, unless they have Tyrion.

sulla
10-08-2009, 05:30
The other major problem is the opportunity cost -- this is the exact issue that makes chaos lords problematic in general. Taking a chaos lord makes an already killy unit, well, more killy. He doesn't do anything your troops can't already do in terms of combat prowess. A Sorcerer lord, on the other hand, can be absolutely devastating at range, thus adding a whole new dimension to your army.He makes the unit stubborn, move through terrain and he strikes first with plenty of s5 attacks. He's like a DE assassin on steroids... Pretty big buffs for any infantry unit IMO. That makes him a good choice if you want to field an infantry based force. As you point out though, it is easier to play a caster, especially a tzeench one supported by slaaneshi mounted marauders and chariots and knights.

Brother J
10-08-2009, 05:40
I don't really see a major problem with him. Suffering from Stupidity is really only going to cause him to move slightly slower to the front line..which a chaos combat lord wants to be at anyways.

LD 10 is a definite bonus and if you play as many games against Dark Elves as I do, you realize that even LD 9 tends to keep them from rolling bad enough for 2-3 games in a row.

The Red Scourge
10-08-2009, 06:33
A Khorne BSB on a jugger clocks out at 250 pt., can reliably generate 6-8 CR on his own (against both ranked infantry and heavy horse) and provide re-rolls for your break tests.

2 units of 10 chaos warriors with halberds, shields and full command would cost you 430. 4 Units of MoK Horsemen with flails will cost you 420 pts.

Sigvald is a Killing Blow away from handing your opponent 525 VP. Being "only" S5, means that he will struggle against heavy armor. Ld 10 is very nice, but with an army almost immune to panic and rock hard in CC, it rarely will be necessary. Stubborn is also a nice feature, but WoC isn't an army that needs to tarpit its opponents (they need to tarpit them). Stupidity will always fail you at the most critical of moments - ask any DE player. The "ignore terrain" feature is nice and useful, and would have been an excellent 25 pt banner, but bundled up with the rest of the package, it just costs too much.

So to sum it up. There is quite a lot better options both maneuverwise and combatwise for WoC, his LD bonus isn't really needed and... He is a special character :)

Darth ryanus
10-08-2009, 11:02
I love the model but he just costs far to much that 425 could be much better spent on 2 lvl2 sorcerers with 4 dispell scrolls.

MasterSparks
10-08-2009, 11:05
One of Sigvald's main attractions apart from his good looks (;)), is that with his stubborn LD10, he can turn a block of Marauders into a serious fighting force. They'll provide him with static CR while he dishes out 7 S5 ASF attacks per turn, more than capable of slashing enemy infantry to ribbons. If he doesn't roll too well they'll simply take a test on LD10, with a potential BSB nearby. :)

Vermin-thing
10-08-2009, 11:40
I like how he has a 1+ save, and regeneration. :) Heck, stick him in a block of 30 marauders, and your set. 5 static res (6 with bsb in unit) plus an average of 3-5 (9-11 with bsb in unit) wounds = victory for Slaanesh. Another nice thing is that he's on foot (not really cus hes floating :)) so he still gets his "look out sir rolls".

Lets compare him to the other special characters. I wonder how he ends up in terms of value/points vs the others. (leaving out the lord of the end times for obvious reasons [or maybe not])

Crube
10-08-2009, 12:39
Thread moved to Fantasy Tactics


Crube
The Warseer Inquisition

Anardakil
10-08-2009, 16:49
He doesnt have regeneration as far as I remember. But maybe I'm wrong?

Oh and he's just t4 unfortunately. He really doesn't like treemen ^^

But he is so damn cool ;) He's worth the pts because of his awesomeness.

Grey
10-08-2009, 17:15
His Auric Armor confers a 1+ armour save (including his shield) and the Regeneration ability.

Kalec
11-08-2009, 01:59
I like how he has a 1+ save, and regeneration. :) Heck, stick him in a block of 30 marauders, and your set. 5 static res (6 with bsb in unit) plus an average of 3-5 (9-11 with bsb in unit) wounds = victory for Slaanesh. Another nice thing is that he's on foot (not really cus hes floating :)) so he still gets his "look out sir rolls".

Lets compare him to the other special characters. I wonder how he ends up in terms of value/points vs the others. (leaving out the lord of the end times for obvious reasons [or maybe not])

Hooray for a super killy, neigh-ubreakable block of marauders your opponent can easily ignore all game!

There are only 4 good WoC special characters: Throgg, Valkia, Archaon, and Kholek.

Throgg is the best combat hero in the game, with an affordable price-tag, and some nice abilities for monsters that make a good hero great.

Valkia gives us a BSB and a fighty lord, that flies, all in one. She is essential to making an infantry-heavy force tick, being able to swing combat and give rerolls where needed, and can wade through a block of swordmasters or blackguard that left their unkillable dreadlord and/or assassin. She doesn't get used much becuase our cavalry are much better then our infantry, but if you want infantry then you need Valkia. The EoTG rerolls are nice too, and let her work really well with chosen and Throgg.

Archaeon and Kholek need no introduction.

Festus isn't bad, but a regular nurgle sorcerer is better because he can take magic items and doesn't make his unit pursue slower then a dwarf.

Villitch suffers from a lack of mobility and defense. He, like Festus, is perfectly viable, but not as good as a generic character.

Galrauch costs as much as a sorc lord on a dragon, is hardly any better, and suffers pseduo-stupidity to boot. If he couldn't attack himself, he would be worth considering.

Sarah S
11-08-2009, 03:45
Festus isn't bad, but a regular nurgle sorcerer is better because he can take magic items and doesn't make his unit pursue slower then a dwarf.

You don't take Festus for his magic, you take him for the Regeneration and poisoned attacks he provides to his unit.

Festus in a unit of Tzeentch Warriors with additional hand weapons and Banner of Rage is enough to make any opponent cry.

4+ armour save, 5+ regen, 6+ ward.
4 poisoned WS5 S4 attacks per model.

Makes Plaguebearer bunkers look like crap. His magic is more of a side effect than anything else.

That said, I think Sigvald is very much worth it. Although I may have poo-pooed the ability of rank and file Warrior of Chaos infantry to get into combats, I have been having absolutely no trouble picking the fights I want with my largely infantry dominated WoC army. Now maybe I am a tactical genius or maybe my opponents are empty headed idiots, but if it can be done, then it can be done, and Sigvald would be great in such a force.

Mullitron
11-08-2009, 07:43
Well 7 asf strength 5 attacks is quite nasty not to mention his good defensive abilites. The stupidity can be annoying but its also part of the fun of the character, instead of killing the devoted sigmar warrior whos about to hack his head off he is too busy looking at his hair. Something for both sides to laugh at in the middle of a game. As already said with a leadership of 10 its not going to happen that often, most of the time he will single handly decimate the opponents front rank. If you like the model and fluff take him, he may not be the most effective choice for chaos lord choices but hes still powerful and going to have an effect on your opponents army. Not to mention looking great and bringing a bit of fun to your game.

yarrickson
11-08-2009, 20:25
Having Faced Sigvald a couple of times I can honestly say he strikes fear into my heart. I foolishly decided to have a go at him and ten chaos warriors with my 20 temple guard with a hero. My hero got slaughtered in the challenge. Sigvald then EOTG up one strength and single handedly (basically) killes fifteen or sixteen temple guard (over three rounds of combat)


So if he gets in combat he's amazing. The other time I faced him though he spent all game chasing skinks with my TG camped as far away as possible. Heh

Draconian77
11-08-2009, 20:57
Sigvald definately looks like he is costed appropriately. Being able to march all the time and ignore terrain is massive, Stubborn is also pretty nifty! ASF gets over a lot of opponents and can lead to some nice tricks.

Definately a better buy than a normal Chaos Lord, even recently on Podhammer(plug-plug-plug) they where discussing how badly Ld9 or 10 is needed these days. Well, there you go. :angel:

Emeraldw
11-08-2009, 22:09
Valkia gives us a BSB and a fighty lord, that flies, all in one. She is essential to making an infantry-heavy force tick, being able to swing combat and give rerolls where needed, and can wade through a block of swordmasters or blackguard that left their unkillable dreadlord and/or assassin. She doesn't get used much becuase our cavalry are much better then our infantry, but if you want infantry then you need Valkia. The EoTG rerolls are nice too, and let her work really well with chosen and Throgg.

Archaeon and Kholek need no introduction.


I was unaware Valkia did that much to a WoC Force. I should ask my friend to let me read his WoC book closer on her.

I know about Arch, but kholek is new to me as to what he adds as I only know of him as an angry Shaggoth. However for the sake of informing myself and others would you tell me how much each of them adds and how to a WoC force? Thank you very much.

Kayosiv
11-08-2009, 22:22
On the Charge, Valkia is essentially a star dragon. Being able to fly, charge at strength 7, and have killing blow with no less than 6 attacks make her able to bust through ranked infantry from the front.

In normal combat, she is extremely potent, but nothing crazy. Her most impressive attribute is that she lowers the amount of attacks and strength of in base contact models who want to attack her by 1, and she has an impressive armor save and a weapon skill of NINE. She is also effectively a BSB.

She has no ward save though, so if you can get past her armor somehow or get lots of attacks that wound automatically like poison or killing blow, she will go down. However since she can fly, simply getting a bead on her can be very difficult, and she dictates when and where she can attack, often avoiding anything that might be dangerous to her while rampaging around your back lines killing your mages and war machines before charging in late game to mop up.

Kholek is just really, really, REALLY big. 8 wounds, 2+ armor save, toughness 6. 7 attacks at weapon skill 8 that do 1-3 wounds each. AND he can shoot lasers from his eyes. If you don't have a large array of cannons, there isn't much that can stop this behemoth. At strength 8, he makes a mockery of the heaviest armor and the toughest heroes. Nothing short of heavy artillery combined with lots of missile fire and perhaps a robust magic phase with strength 5+ magic missiles will even be able to hurt this guy. Pack your ward saves and great weapons if you are even thinking about fighting this guy in combat.

Sarah S
11-08-2009, 23:44
Kholek is just really, really, REALLY big. 8 wounds, 2+ armor save, toughness 6. 7 attacks at weapon skill 8 that do 1-3 wounds each. AND he can shoot lasers from his eyes. If you don't have a large array of cannons, there isn't much that can stop this behemoth. At strength 8, he makes a mockery of the heaviest armor and the toughest heroes. Nothing short of heavy artillery combined with lots of missile fire and perhaps a robust magic phase with strength 5+ magic missiles will even be able to hurt this guy. Pack your ward saves and great weapons if you are even thinking about fighting this guy in combat.

I knew all about Kholek before your description, but now I want to build a Godzilla model for my WoC army.

Emeraldw
12-08-2009, 01:29
Thank you Kayosiv. That is a useful analysis. If I remember correctly Kholek is a hero right? You could have both then? Kholek must be like WoC's dragon which makes me wonder why you wouldn't see him more often in power lists if he is so strong. Or perhaps i haven't seen enough power lists.

Krom The Eternal
12-08-2009, 01:43
very true i would love to run both maybe i will in the up coming 3k tourney at my local game store i wonder how they will work together?

Kalec
12-08-2009, 02:23
Kholek is a lord. Throgg is the monster hero.

You don't see him much because he eats up the lord slot your sorc lord has finally gotten comfy in. He is like a chaos lord: brutal in combat, but rarely needed. For the price of two steam tanks, you need more then a single monster. He has a shooting attack, at least, which helps, but for his price he needs to do a lot, and do it well. He does, but what he does is something the rest of the army does well enough.

Archaon, also quite expensive, at least has the benefit of adding to our magic phase. Being able to squeeze in 8 levels of magic and a fighty lord is valuable, and his drawback of having to take a unit of knights might as well apply to everything in the book. He is mobile enough to reach combat, doesn't have to deal with frenzy, and is plenty durable with a good ward, good armor, and never being wounded on better then a 3+. Worth looking at, but not a no-brainer choice in the slightest.

Condottiere
12-08-2009, 05:43
If you don't have a combat lord of your own, or one that barely measures up, your best option is to shoot the hell out of these special characters, because you don't really want to get into close quarters against them with your normal regiments, and they'll probably avoid tarpits.