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View Full Version : Trying to get into Fantasy. Please help



hendybadger
10-08-2009, 22:42
As it says. I am trying to get into Fantasy to expand my range of games and opponents.
I currently play 40K with Nid-Zilla Tyranids, Blood Angels and Necromunda with Escher. and Spyrers.
Also want to start both 40K forces in BFG.
Space Hulk was a must for me aswell.
As you can see Im abit of a sci-fi fan. I also dont like big swarm type armies that have lots and lots of the same models.
Not keen on standard humans or elves (near enough same thing)
Why play Fantasy games if your just going to use normal men?
SO. Where do I start?
What would be a good, maybe elite, army for me to look at?
And any other advice?

With the release of the new Skaven my main opponent will be happy. So that will be most of my WHFB games.

Hope someone can help

vinny t
10-08-2009, 22:51
Lizardmen sound good for you. Great model range, vary sci-fiey, and can be rather non-hordey!

Dungeon_Lawyer
10-08-2009, 23:08
I vote for ogres

hendybadger
10-08-2009, 23:12
I do like the look of both of those. But do you need big units of them?
How do they play?

Unuhexium
10-08-2009, 23:14
You might want to check out Ogre Kingdoms. They're probably the most unique army when it comes to playstyle and it as far from a horde as you can possibly get. They're a bit weak right now, but can be competative. Ogres come in units of 3-6 guys. Each is the size of 4 humans.

hendybadger
10-08-2009, 23:18
They do sound like fun. How do they stand up to Skaven, Orcs and High Elves?
They would be my main opponents if I played

Condottiere
10-08-2009, 23:31
I get the feeling you'll like Ogres; on the other end of the scale, there are Dwarves, who tend to be elite, or at least claim to be.

The Ogres would give you brute force, the Dwarves semi-mystic technology and sturdy warriors.

bambamBIGILO
10-08-2009, 23:39
You can play the lizardmen list with massed stegadons and a carnosaur thats a low model count army, still need 3 squads od skinks though.

Unuhexium
11-08-2009, 00:17
I think ogres would do well vs orcs. They're both melee-based armies, but as long as you get the charge they'll have a hard time swamping you. Ogres cause impacthits when they charge (i.e. a few enemies are likely to the crushed by the brute force of the charge).

Ogres might be at a disadvantage against skaven since ogres have a lot of wounds but only slightly higher than average toughness and not a lot of armour. I suspect you'd have a hard time against their shooting, but if you can solve that problem and get into melee with reasonable numbers, i reckon the rats would die like flies.

I'm not sure how they'd fare against high elves. Haven't studied OKs armybook that much, but I think you'd need a fair bit of magic protection against them.

N810
11-08-2009, 00:25
Probaly a bad match up VS High elves. :(
Lizardmen a lot of versatility in it's army builds,
and a lot of variety in the models. :D

r3flexx
11-08-2009, 00:34
Currently I play Dark Elves, and Lizardmen are my second favorite (of course your army is always the best to you ;]) Otherwise, Warriors of Chaos have some amazing looking models because of the armour they wear. They are also moderately expensive pointswise(of course for a reason) so you'll have a smaller army. They have a very strong magic phase too. I would go LM or WoC.

mweaver
11-08-2009, 00:37
GW has had more time to refine the Lizardman army - there has only been one edition of the OK army. I have a little experience with lizardmen (fun) but none with OK, although I have a lot of the models because they are nifty. My impression from various comments around here and elsewhere is that the OK aren't considered extremely competitive.

Dwarves are a lot of fun, although to be honest I am not a huge fan of the current model range - well, at least the plastics. GW has a long record of producing great metal dwarf figures with a lot of character, but I haven't cared much for any of the attempts at plastic dwarves. But they are very fun to play, in my opinion. They are tough and dedicated and have an interesting variety of troops (and some fun artillery).

As vinny noted, the lizardmen could most easily be co-opted into SciFi games, if you were so minded. Indeed, if you have any plastic skink or saurus models left over after building your fantasy units, it would be an easy conversion to give them some scifi weaponry.

pfishy98
11-08-2009, 07:02
well being a 40k player, i think you'll find dwarf machinations quite backwater compared to the far future. If you want a full fantasy feel and not just an old school 40k army with beards then dont go for dwarfs.
ogres can be quite expensive, money wise. at 40-50 pops for a tyrant you'll have to plan your list carefully and stick with it, at least till your next pay check.
but if money is no object, then by all means start an ogre army! they are fun to paint, with lots of room for fun and imaginative conversion. very few ogre armies are alike, in look and style. just make sure you have a lot of codex grey!

Condottiere
11-08-2009, 08:51
To make a complete army, I believe that Ogres are one of the cheapest variants on a point for pound comparison.

eyescrossed
11-08-2009, 09:08
Warriors of Chaos. I have a 1000 point army that composes of 38 models. Talk about elite (1 Jugger Champion, 5 Knights, 12 Warriors and 20 Marauders).

Unless you don't want anything humany. Even then, you can still have Trolls, Ogres, Dragon Ogres and Giants with WoC.

hendybadger
11-08-2009, 09:37
I think it may be down to- Ogres, Lizardmen + Warriors of Chaos
Can you field a WOC army without maruders?

Zilverug
11-08-2009, 09:43
I'd go Daemons in your case - in the extremely unlikely case you decide not to like Fantasy you can still use them in 40K!

hendybadger
11-08-2009, 09:56
I dont really want another 40k army. And the deamons seem abit mixed uo and dont seem to fit toghether in an army

Falkman
11-08-2009, 10:26
Can you field a WOC army without maruders?
Perfectly viable.
Not using Marauder horsemen might be a tactical disadvantage though.

hendybadger
11-08-2009, 10:34
Like I said in the OP. I really dont like using normal humans

eyescrossed
11-08-2009, 10:47
It is completely viable to field WoC without any humans. Warhounds can fill in somewhat for Horsemen.

Lord Khabal
11-08-2009, 11:28
The mandatory core states otherwise! dogs (unfortunatelly :( ) do not count towards minimum core. Its either marauders or warriors.

If you played nid-zilla in 40K I believe you would like a lizardman monster army, with lots of big dinos! Just look at the stegadon and see if you like it...

hendybadger
11-08-2009, 11:56
Does it play well? Cheesy or Underpowered?

squeekenator
11-08-2009, 12:38
The mandatory core states otherwise! dogs (unfortunatelly :() do not count towards minimum core. Its either marauders or warriors.

Then again, a certain Troll King lets you take Trolls as Core, which lets you field an army with no humans whatsoever.

eyescrossed
11-08-2009, 12:41
The mandatory core states otherwise! dogs (unfortunatelly :( ) do not count towards minimum core. Its either marauders or warriors.


I wasn't really counting Warriors as humans.

hendybadger
13-08-2009, 13:42
Warriors look alot better to me over normal looking humans.
How would you play a-
Chaos Armoured warrior force?
Lizardmen Monster force?

Fun, Bad, ect?

Perigrine
14-08-2009, 00:22
When It comes to WoC our standard warrior is a very nasty customer to deal with. They great all around stats they are kinda like fantasy marines stat and armor save wise. However they are slow and most opponents dont like to get into melee with them and youll take a lot of shooting on your approach.

One way that WoC get played a lot lately is a cavalry based army, you do have to take marauder horsement to fill out your core units though so that is a downside for you i guess.

w3rm
14-08-2009, 01:59
These are all good suggestions but for you Lizards is definatly the best option.

P.S. Perigrine, I love your avatar. Flame Alchemist FTW!

hendybadger
14-08-2009, 12:57
Why are they the best option?

DeathlessDraich
14-08-2009, 13:13
I play with 12 armies in rotation and against all armies effectively and my recommendation to all beginners is always the same.
There are problems to overcome with every army and each has intrinsic weaknesses and strengths which can be quite frustrating to a beginner. If you would like a reasonably good chance of winning and not losing too heavily as a novice then choose

Bretonnians

1) They will not perish - good at combat attack and defence.

2) Tactics are almost intuitive and easy to master

Any other army is also viable with the possible exception of Orcs (Accepted by many to be the most difficult to play and win).
Some problems which novices find/create with the armies suggested so far - Lizards - low Initiative, Dwarves - slow movement, Elves - Toughness 3, VC and Daemons - getting carried away with individual units and failing to play as an army etc etc. There are ways of redressing these problems but that comes with experience.

Necromancy Black
14-08-2009, 13:32
I've give you a damn quick break down of Lizardmen, which I play.

Firstly you'll want some Saurus Warriors. These guys are rather like Chaos Warriors in that they have good S and T for core troops and a good armour save. They also have 2 attacks each. Spears are pretty much a must take, as they let you fight in two ranks. Field then 6 models wide as well (recently done this for the first time, and after 2 games of it I'll never field then another way). They have the lowest I in the game though, and an average WS, but they are one of the best units in the game at holding their ground.

Then you've got skinks, which make up your more horde side of the elite side of core troops. Skinks ranked up can get kroxigors with them which are like ogres but with a good armour save. The other way is you can then as skirmishers. Honestly, don't ignore them, as they're really useful. Take 2 units of 10 and you'll find you'll like them. They're fast (M6), decent I and all their ranged attacks are poisonous. They are however T2 and WS2, and without armour so die rather fast. Also, Ld6, but this isn't so bad because of Cold Blooded.

Basically your army with have some sort of the above through out it. Saurus form your elite side of them with the Warriors, Cold One Riders (powerful hitting Calvary, but no where near as good as Chaos Knights) and your characters (Scar-Vets are easily one of the best heroes in the game. As tough as an ogre hero with the same number of attacks, more Str and a good armour save)

Skinks tend to come with the monsters. Outside of the Core troops they are much less horde like. They ride most of the large monsters (except for the T-rex like carnosaur, that's a saurus Lord) and lead the smaller weird creatures like Salamanders and Razerdons, they also form flying Calvary. In all cases, the monsters are usually tough and strong, while skinks are always the opposite.

Lizardmen can also be very powerful magic wise using the Slann Lord. A Slann also get's put with Temple Guard (elite saurus) and this forms a very tough unit. Slann are also possible the best general in the game, outside of special characters.

Last thing I will say is a word about the special rule Lizardmen have, which is Cold-Blooded. Cold-Blooded means you roll all leadership tests with 3 dice and drop the highest. With all Saurus having Ld 8 this becomes damn, damn good. A Slann has Ld 9, making it even better. WoC do get to reroll Panic tests, but it really doesn't compare to Cold-Blooded.

Also to give you an idea of Saurus with spears, I had 3 maneaters and a Tyrant charge into a unit of 18 with a BSB in the unit. After taking all the hits and loosing about 5-6 models I hit back and did enough wounds to still win combat. Now that was a bit better then average, but even if I did loose, with that BRB reroll with Cold-Blooded, I was highly unlikely to run. Definitely great units for holding their ground.

N810
14-08-2009, 16:13
http://mysite.verizon.net/summarjd/mscl/WHFBstats.pdf

this is well worth checking out.

Ps. cold blooded ld8 has a 89.35% chance of passing
& cold blooded ld6 has a 68.06% chance of passing
_________________

hendybadger
22-08-2009, 20:56
Dont like dragging this up again but.....
With the update to Skaven my main gaming opponent will get his force out again.

So far im looking at Chaos Warriors without marauders or maybe Lizardmen

Any more advice or ideas from anyone?

Condottiere
23-08-2009, 00:55
Most successful builds are a combination of two or three heavy combat orientated units with various types of support.

bambamBIGILO
23-08-2009, 09:15
okay if you ask me the most power your going to get out of both chaos and lizard is 2 core hard troops:
-18 chaos warriors with shield and extra wpn + mark Khorne or nurgle = 366pts
or
-18 saurus with spears= 258pts

now that seems an easy choice but now you have to argue different core, fast cav etc.

if you want to be competative of strong go magic for your characters on both armys, with chaos because your characters, even the casters are as strong as most combat heroes. And with lizards because you can have 1 level 4 caster and up to three level three caster with Eotg. Completly dominating the magic phase.

Both armies have strong combat characters though, so it is a matter of taste but are most effective in the magic phase.

I love marauder fast cav myself 2, with 2 nurgle 18 blocks of warriors for my core. I run my fast cav with flails L. armor and mark of slannesh or Tzeech depending.