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Emud
11-08-2009, 11:07
Hi all! Im a new member, and I starting WH again after a break of almost 10 years.

I have my old Orcs and Goblins army to start with, but I have no clue what is working or not with the new rules. I have tried to set up a 2000p army with my existing figures, but I need some advice from you experts :)

1 ) Will this army work at all?

2) What is its weaknesses and strengths ?

3) What do I need to add or remove?

4) I have no magic items, this is all new to me. Suggestions?

5) Equipment, really have not got to this phase yet. Suggestions?

6) I really love squigs and snotlings. I want to keep them, and perhaps add more (got 4 unpainted snotling bases) is this a bad idea?


Characters - total 525p

255p Grom
100p Orc shaman lv 2
85p Night goblin shaman lv 2
85p Black Orc Big Boss


Core - total 601p

235p Night Goblins (35), full command, with nets and 3 fanatics
80p Snotlings (4)
78p Wolf riders (5), with boss and musician
78p Wolf riders (5), with boss and musician
130p Orc boyz (20), full command


Special - total 512 p

90p Suig herd (3 teams)
90p Squig hoppers (6)
60p Wolf chariot
272p Black orcs(18), full command


Rare - total 120p

80p Trolls (2)
40p Pump wagon



Army total 1758

Extra for equipment 242

Lord Hurin
11-08-2009, 11:59
Well, just a few things come to mind before better qualified members come along and give you better advice:

For that Black Orc Big Boss, I'd make him BSB and give him the Spirit Totem for some magic defence.

For the Core choices I'd add a couple big units of Boyz. 25 or so including Characters is good. Drop the Champ off those Wolf Riders

The Snotlings look good on paper, I've never used them though. For 20pts a base, I say go for it!

The Specials are a little strange. I'd drop the Black Orcs as they're not as great as the points would lead you to believe. Squig herds are also weak. Get 2-4 Spear Chukkas or another Chariot instead.

rtunian
11-08-2009, 13:43
- 6 pd isn't going to cast very much at 2k, so either add some bound items, or consider dropping the level 2's and possibly one of the shamen altogether

- you should give your orc boyz shields

- squig herds come in 2 varieties: the bomb, and the actual unit. a bomb only should be 1-2 teams, an actual unit should be 5 teams

- squig hoppers should have at least 7

- you should cut the blorc unit down to 10, drop the boss, add think about adding either the warbanner or nogg's banner of butchery

- usual equipment for bigbosses of any kind is something like "ulag's akrit axe" (25 pts, reroll to-hit) or "martog's best basha" (15 pts, +1 ws/s/i) and if no one else is wearing it, "enchanted shield" (15 pts, +2 as instead of normal shield's +1 as). all orc chars should also be on a boar (16 pts) unless they are in a chariot (80 pts, but only bigbosses/warbosses and great shamans, not regular shamans)

- pump wagons are 2-for-1 rare, so there's no reason not to take a pair

- unless you have 4 of them, and they are river variety, you only need 1 troll in a unit

- agree with hurin that wolf riders should not have boss

- disagree with hurin about the bsb... grom is by rule the general and bsb, though i do agree that you would probably be better off with a mork's totem bsb, but can't do that with grom in army

- snots depends on what you are using them for. 4 is fine for screener unit. not sure what you would screen with them though. 2 is enough to contest/hold table quarter

- overall not a very competitive list... too varied and unfocused. weak magic, no shooting, and less than 100 models, means that you are weak or non-existent in three of the four phases. you need to make up your mind on the magic deal (do you want it or not?) and commit with your list.

Emud
11-08-2009, 14:51
Thanks a lot guys! Real good help for an oldie starting again. I guess I will have to check what i have unpainted.

Considering rare units I know i have painted 2 doom divers and 2 more unpainted trolls (all the river type). I chose the pumpwagon just because i like the model.

I dont understand the point in using 4 trolls or only 1? Can someone enlighten me on this strategy?

What is the good thing to do for rare choices then?


1.) increase troll size to 4 or decrease to 1?

2. ) add one pumpwagon or swap it for one doomdiver?

3. ) swap both trolls and pumpwagon for doomdivers?

Dungeon_Lawyer
11-08-2009, 15:18
- - squig herds come in 2 varieties: the bomb, and the actual unit. a bomb only should be 1-2 teams, an actual unit should be 5 teams


rtunian I would like to learn more....
What are the tactics behind the use of a "squig bomb" why is a squig bomb even called a squig bomb? Why only 1 or 2 teams and what exactly does it do?

I just scored a unit of squig herds off of ebay ....

Catferret
11-08-2009, 15:31
Squig bomb involves sending a very small expendable team towards the enemy and engaging in combat so only the herders are attackable. When they all die (2 gobboes in combat is almost guaranteed ;) ), the squigs "explode" and inflict hits on all units nearby. Number of hits is standardised regardless of numbers of squigs remaining therefore don't use a big unit. 2 teams gives a little more reliability as you can take a few shooting casualties before you reach the enemy.

rtunian
11-08-2009, 17:35
re: squig bombs - catferret is spot on. see the "wild squigs" rule

re: why 4 trolls or 1?
4 is a combat block
- 4 is the most frontage you can get in b2b with 40mm base
- 4 is enough vomit attacks that vomiting is a viable attack option against ranked units
- 4 has US12 which will outnumber most cav units and any smallish inf blocks (outnumber by fear causing = autobreak)

1 is for supporting units
- 1 is extremely mobile, and can go/fit almost anywhere
- 1 is only 40-60 points, so it's no huge loss if it's stupid too often or killed

Lord Hurin
11-08-2009, 20:40
Ah, sorry. I didn't have my rulebook with me as I was just starting work when I made that post.

Grom really doesn't seem terribly great unless you're going all Goblins or against Elves a lot.

Dungeon_Lawyer
12-08-2009, 06:30
Squig bomb involves sending a very small expendable team towards the enemy and engaging in combat so only the herders are attackable. When they all die (2 gobboes in combat is almost guaranteed ;) ), the squigs "explode" and inflict hits on all units nearby. Number of hits is standardised regardless of numbers of squigs remaining therefore don't use a big unit. 2 teams gives a little more reliability as you can take a few shooting casualties before you reach the enemy.

thanks for that! that is great!!!:D

Emud
12-08-2009, 06:39
Yea, I think grom might be a bad choice. But I'm starting from my old already painted figures. That makes more sense than to start all over again.

I have an unpainted skarsnik figure, but i dont think he will be any better choice.

Lord Hurin
12-08-2009, 13:13
Yea, I think grom might be a bad choice. But I'm starting from my old already painted figures. That makes more sense than to start all over again.

I have an unpainted skarsnik figure, but i dont think he will be any better choice.

You don't need special characters to lead your army though. I've used a Black Orc Big Boss and an Orc BSB to great effect in my first few games.

Dungeon_Lawyer
12-08-2009, 18:22
Grom rocks! He is fluffy, contains a bsb, and is the ONLY greenskin to ever win a naval battle. Worth his weight in gold verse pointy ears....

Dont underestimate Skarsnik either-He can be simply devastating with his sneaky schemes and tricksy traps, and his magic missile halberd attack can make a mess of an opposing army if Skarsnik is deployed right vis a vis the rest of the army.....

play for fun! dont powergame!

Lord Hurin
12-08-2009, 18:32
play for fun! dont powergame!

I'm curious as to who you're directing this at. In my meta it's generally considered more "powergamey" to use Special Characters.

As you said, Grom is great against Elves. If there's not a pointy-ear in sight though, I can't think of a reason to take him over a Black Orc Warboss.

Emud
13-08-2009, 10:31
Thanks for the many answers. I cannot believe the activity on this forum!!! In other forums on the net where I usually post i get like 1 or two replies MAX.

I'm not into powergaming, I just want to make sure i'm not feeblegaming. I mentioned Grom and Skarsnik because i like those characters more than the others. Much like i like snotlings and squigs. I will never field savage orcs (i think at least) because I like them the least.

I will try out grom and see how it goes. My most frequent opponent will be dwarfs though. I might also have to face skaven, elves, bretonnia and empire. My biggest fear is that grom will be blasted by artillery or bows. Is'nt this a usual problem?

My biggest trouble is regarding magic though. As rtunian pointed out i have to decide if i want it or not. I have never played with the new rules though so it's hard for me. Im leaning towards skipping magic since i will face dwarfs a lot. But I dont like it. I like the greenskin magic and I want my shaman to pop once in a while. Its fun. What is needed to have ok magic power in an 2k army?

rtunian
13-08-2009, 13:32
8 pd + bound spells is the minimum imo. most lists are going to have 4-6 dd including a scroll caddy. so you need a great shaman and 2-3 other shamen.

remember that it's not just the number of power dice that counts, it's the number of magic levels too. it's important because you need many castings of stuff you don't care about to eat dispel dice so that you can cast the spells you want to cast. it also helps alot to have redundancy in your spells, so that even if one attempt is dispelled or fails to cast, you have another shot.

and if they don't dispel the spells you "don't care about", saving dice for your wanted spells, then at least you are hitting them with several magic missiles or whatever