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View Full Version : 2250 Ogre List - not yer typical army!



Cormorant
11-08-2009, 17:39
Hi all, long time reader, decided to start posting some stuff.

I want to take a new direction with the ogres, and figured I would post the list in a different forum to try for more feedback. Tell me what you think. I tried a similar list against 2250 Lizards and fought them to a draw - would have won if not for the very last combat where my general got whacked by a Blade of Realities and his unit got run down.

Thanks in advance for critiques.

Tyrant
- Bullgut
- Greyback Pelt
- Wyrdstone Necklace
- "Wallcrusher"
- Luck Gnob
- Heavy Armor
- Great Weapon

BSB Bruiser
- Gnoblar Thiefstones x2
- Sword of Might

Butcher
- Siegebreaker
- Skullmantle

Butcher
- Dispel Scroll x2

Ironguts x6
- SB/Warbanner
- Bellower

Ironguts x6
- SB
- Bellower

Bulls x6
- Bellower
- Ironfists
- Light Armor

Leadbelchers x4
- Bellower

Gnoblar Fighters x25

Gorger

Gorger

Total: 2249

The first list had the Jade Lion instead of the Greyback Pelt on the Tyrant; the Butchers had a dispel scroll each - one with Mantle, the other with Bangstick; Bulls had a Banner instead of IF/LA.

The Tyrant goes in with the Warbanner IG unit; BSB in other IG unit (or Bulls depending on who I am playing against); Breaker-Butcher goes in with Bulls (or other IG unit depending on opponent); other Butcher freelances.

I set the army up in a castle in one corner to use the table edge to deny a flank, and let the Gnob unit and Belchers protect the other. The Bulls rush in and try for flank support to an IG unit, and if they dont break the target, fallback on IF/LA saves (maybe some Gut Magic) to hold until help arrives.

With only 5 units, I get the +1 to my roll which helps a lot, and my ogres units require 2 ogres to cause panic (except for LBs of course). They are all always close to the General or BSB and it is hard to flank them because they stay in such close proximity. It is a lot of fun and a very challenging list. Thinking of trying it at a tournament.

Thoughts?

SilverWarlock
11-08-2009, 17:50
2 points (and I know I'm on the stronghold as well but w/e):

Why 6 rather than 5? I understand having them 5 wide without characters and avoiding panic, but number 6 seems odd.

2 Butchers ... at tournament level I can't see them actually casting anything. Wouldn't a bruiser or two (one with greatskull) be better?

Otherwise pretty nice multiple deathstar list.

Cormorant
11-08-2009, 18:06
Hi Warlock! Thanks for stopping in!

It not only allows me to take a few deaths from shooting, but still be able to replenish my lines from a fight. Ogres must be able to maximize attacks with a 4-gut front as much as possible, and six just keeps it around longer. It also allows a few guts to spread on the back to make those impacts hit harder and ensure a few deaths before battle, and keeps me outnumbering my opponents for the autobreak (on those it affects anyway).

2 Butchers work well enough. They help with some extra magic defense and make my opponents have to do something about the threats it presents. Its nice when Bonecrunchers crunch cav, and Trollguts saves you on a charge...Butchers are too good not to. I dont like the Butcherless lists, we need Gut Magic to survive.

I am just really tired of the smaller unit strategy and decided to make some tanks. Its been working pretty well so far. Just needs tweaking.

BossBadBad
11-08-2009, 23:38
A few thoughts...
1). You could replace that siegebreaker with a bangstick, which would save you a few points.

2). Is the BSB Bruiser taking a magic banner? (If so, he won't be able to take those thiefstones and Sword of Might.)

3). You could drop the Greyback pelt, and the Wallcrusher, you could afford a tenderiser. (An altogether great weapon, and not too bad of a pick.)

4). You could replace the Gnoblar Fighters with a unit of Trappers, they won't do much. Besides throw some stuff at your enemies soldiers. Who knows, they might even kill something.

Cormorant
12-08-2009, 01:41
A few thoughts...
1). You could replace that siegebreaker with a bangstick, which would save you a few points.

2). Is the BSB Bruiser taking a magic banner? (If so, he won't be able to take those thiefstones and Sword of Might.)

3). You could drop the Greyback pelt, and the Wallcrusher, you could afford a tenderiser. (An altogether great weapon, and not too bad of a pick.)

4). You could replace the Gnoblar Fighters with a unit of Trappers, they won't do much. Besides throw some stuff at your enemies soldiers. Who knows, they might even kill something.

1) Siegebreaker is for Chariots and higher toughness creatures. It helps having an extra str7 running around (especially since the Bruiser is only a 6). The bangstick has its uses, but it usually just ends up eating an extra dispel dice and not much else - I like the extra melee punch.

2) No he's not. I am taking the BSB strictly to be able to reroll break tests.

3) I have been running that thing since the army came out and everyone expects it now. Looking for something different. The Greyback pelt will make characters wanting to challenge me needs 5s on average to even hit me and that helps a lot. Plus with the Bullgut, I can actually use the pelt to shoot through terrain and get some flank support in if needed (since he is US6 on the charge and my unit can see the target of course). Its a little trick I want to try out. Having a solo character that can negate ranks and make people need 5s to hit him seems pretty cool. (In theory lol)

4) Gnoblar Fighters are great units if used properly. I have saved my General's unit a couple of times by having GFs come in on the flank - killing their ranks and adding 3 of my own. Its the trappers that I seem to have lost the ability to use and now I want to try something else. Additionally, I dont want the scouts to possibly make me lose the +1 to my starting roll.

Its a very different list from typical ogres, but its working well. I just need little tweaks here and there and I dont want the "staple" items to tweak it with. Stuff no one is using so people dont know what to expect.

BossBadBad
12-08-2009, 02:24
1) Siegebreaker is for Chariots and higher toughness creatures. It helps having an extra str7 running around (especially since the Bruiser is only a 6). The bangstick has its uses, but it usually just ends up eating an extra dispel dice and not much else - I like the extra melee punch.

2) No he's not. I am taking the BSB strictly to be able to reroll break tests.

3) I have been running that thing since the army came out and everyone expects it now. Looking for something different. The Greyback pelt will make characters wanting to challenge me needs 5s on average to even hit me and that helps a lot. Plus with the Bullgut, I can actually use the pelt to shoot through terrain and get some flank support in if needed (since he is US6 on the charge and my unit can see the target of course). Its a little trick I want to try out. Having a solo character that can negate ranks and make people need 5s to hit him seems pretty cool. (In theory lol)

4) Gnoblar Fighters are great units if used properly. I have saved my General's unit a couple of times by having GFs come in on the flank - killing their ranks and adding 3 of my own. Its the trappers that I seem to have lost the ability to use and now I want to try something else. Additionally, I dont want the scouts to possibly make me lose the +1 to my starting roll.

Its a very different list from typical ogres, but its working well. I just need little tweaks here and there and I dont want the "staple" items to tweak it with. Stuff no one is using so people dont know what to expect.
I see... well, you could always take a Bloodcleaver on one of your butchers, and a bangstick. Even if the bangstick eats up a DD, it should be cast last. (Not altogether a bad thing, since gut magic is so cheap to cast.) What about a Gut Maw on the Tyrant? It could be useful for challenges. (Though how often do your challenges get accepted?)

What about splitting those Leadbelchers into two units of two? Also, a Fistful of Laurels might be helpful for that reroll. And are all those standards really THAT necessary? (The answer is a yes, I can feel that...)

I would still try and work in a unit of Trappers, they're not a bad unit.

Cormorant
12-08-2009, 06:29
I see... well, you could always take a Bloodcleaver on one of your butchers, and a bangstick. Even if the bangstick eats up a DD, it should be cast last. (Not altogether a bad thing, since gut magic is so cheap to cast.) What about a Gut Maw on the Tyrant? It could be useful for challenges. (Though how often do your challenges get accepted?)

What about splitting those Leadbelchers into two units of two? Also, a Fistful of Laurels might be helpful for that reroll. And are all those standards really THAT necessary? (The answer is a yes, I can feel that...)

I would still try and work in a unit of Trappers, they're not a bad unit.

I used to run the Butchers on my first version of this list as one with the Stick/Scroll and the other with Mantle/Scroll and stuck the Mantle Butcher in with the Bulls for extra help in CR. But then I decided I needed some more punch so I went back to the old Chariot-smacker build with the Breaker and Mantle. (Mantle helps while he's sitting in a unit, and the Breaker is a surprise when he bum-rushes a chariot)

The problem with the cleaver is that he just doesnt have enough attacks, high str, or WS to really make it as effective. At least with the Breaker, what you do hit with is probably going to wound. I think the cleaver is more for Slaughtermasters, as their stat-line is a bit better and they are more likely to have less wounds from casting so much. I tried it time and time again on my Butchers and I just couldnt get it to work for me effectively enough to keep it.

Ya know honestly, people challenge me more than I challenge them anymore with all the new stuff out now. Used to, the Tyrant was a feared dueler, and still is to an extent, but not anymore really. Stuff like Frostblade and Blade of Realities and stuff like that just eats him up, so I wanted to take a more defensive approach with the Pelt. Also, the wounds thing doesnt help much as usually he gets killed outright by a magic item (as above) or gets ran down from a break. Otherwise, they just dont get accepted by weaker units.

I have went back and forth on the LBs between 1x4 and 2x2 units - either one only needs 1 to panic so thats not an issue for me. I like the versatility of having 2x2 and being able to pull different units here and there and if I misfire it may not hurt as much. But I also like that if I lose a guy from the 1x4that I can still negate ranks and get impact hits. A solo LB just doesnt do much for me so I wanted a larger unit of them as well. Like I said though I am torn...I dont know which will be better for me overall.

The standards...the reasoning I have is that both IG units have a static CR of 2 (not counting outnumber which is likely). The Warbanner gives it by itself, and the BSB and SB in the other gives it that way. I used to have one in the Bulls unit as well, but dropped it for the points needed to put IF/LA on them, and the fact they are prob more likely to break. I may drop the one in the BSB unit if I see I am winning combats consistently enough without it and just have the BSB and the Warbanner. Not sure yet. Still need some testing.

WHEW...ok that was alot. Thanks for helping me brainstorm on this. Keep thos critiques coming!

bullshiz20
12-08-2009, 06:43
are ogres like orcs in 40 k? cause there are alot of models here like there are with orcs.

Gokamok
12-08-2009, 12:20
I really like the non-MSU approach to the Ogre list, which I can guarantee will provide my Vampires with a much bigger headache than tons of 3-strong Ogre units.
I've always found that the main issue for Ogres is that they too rarely break anything with a frontal charge, and you've managed to solve that problem with the 2 IG units.

As for the Leadbelchers, how about taking 1 unit of 3 and then cut a few odds and ends in order to bring another unit of Gnoblars? You'll still be able to negate ranks with your LBs if they sustain a casualty, and I think that another ranked throwaway unit could provide you with more tactical options.

Cormorant
13-08-2009, 05:57
I really like the non-MSU approach to the Ogre list, which I can guarantee will provide my Vampires with a much bigger headache than tons of 3-strong Ogre units.
I've always found that the main issue for Ogres is that they too rarely break anything with a frontal charge, and you've managed to solve that problem with the 2 IG units.

Thank you for the encouragement - I hope I have solved a problem! I know exactly what you are talking about with the frontal charge breaks, and that is a primary reason I am taking this approach! :)

My good friend, who is also a member on here (fechik) is actually the one that convinced me to try it out. He pointed out the tactical advantages of using such a list, and I pointed it up. He has helped me immensely in its development.



As for the Leadbelchers, how about taking 1 unit of 3 and then cut a few odds and ends in order to bring another unit of Gnoblars? You'll still be able to negate ranks with your LBs if they sustain a casualty, and I think that another ranked throwaway unit could provide you with more tactical options.

I think that is an excellent long term suggestion. As of right now, unfortunately, I only have enough models to either field a unit of Trappers or a unit of 25 Gnoblars. This list uses every model I have right now minus 16 Gnoblars. Here is my updated list I am going to try at the tournament this weekend at my local store.

Fechik and I played a game today testing our tournie lists. Here is what I played:

Tyrant: Bullgut, GBP, Wallcrusher, WSN, HA, GrW, Luck Gnob

BSB Bruiser: Gnoblar Thiefstones x2, Sw-o-Might

Butcher: Breaker/Mantle

Butcher: DSS x2

Tyrants IGs x6: SB/Warbanner, Bellower

Breaker-Butchers IGs x6: SB, Bellower

BSBs Bulls x6: IF, LA, Bellower

LBs x4: Bellower

Gnoblar Trappers x8

Gorgers x2

I made some changes to the list as youll notice and it worked well. I figured the Breaker-Butcher would be better protected in the IG unit w/ Ld 8 instead of putting him in the Bulls where everyone stays at Ld 7. The BSB Bruiser added a little extra punch to the Bulls, raised their Ld to 8 and they actually ended up doing most of the smashing. I was very happy with how they balanced out.

The highlight of the game for me was when my Gorger KB'd his general on a charge - it was awesome.

I am going to stick with the Trappers for the tournie, as being able to march block helped immensely. I will be upping the Trappers to 9 and adding HA to the Bruiser with the leftover points from dropping the LB bellower.

I may divide the LBs into 2x2. The 1x4 is nice, but they need 1 to panic either way, and people enjoy shooting them to pieces; so I may would rather have the versatility; and going with trappers will still put me at only 5 units. Also, at 2x2 if one dies they wont cause a panic if they flee through. But I dont know, I like the 4-gut unit as well. I need to decide.

Oh, again we fought to a draw. We both know each other's tactics so well, its really hard for us to get the edge to win! Plus, he is one of the better players in the state, so I consider draws with him at least MVs against others. (He's been playing for 10yrs!)