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NovaScotius
11-08-2009, 19:06
I'm in a bit of a conundrum in which way to go with a new army. I have a decent Deathwing list, which I'm beginning to get bored of playing (There are only so many tactics Deathwing can use!), and I'm stuck as to where to go from here.

I've narrowed it down to three choices, all of which are pretty appealing... Daemonhunters, Imperial Guard or Tau.

I'm not really sure how each one of these plays, and would appreciate any thoughts on which you think would be the most fun to field, for both myself and an opponent. I want a competitive army, but not one that just stands there and rolls dice to win, I want something that requires a little effort, and does not 'miss out' on one of the phases in the game (I used a friend's hoard Tyranid army for a few games, and couldn't get over missing out on the shooting phase!).

So basically, which army of the three is the most versatile and enjoyable for both players?

Serpent
11-08-2009, 19:14
Guard. Definitely. Endless ways of doing your own background, and lots of new and nice models to use.

And if you want, you can do Daemonhunters afterwards, using your Guard as Inducted units. Double win.

starlight
11-08-2009, 19:14
Most versatile? Hands down, Imperial Guard. :)


Mech Veterans, Horde, Armoured...there are almost as many ways to play guard as there are Guard players. :) And you can always pick up some GKs (or other DH units) as Allies/go the inducted route later if it still appeals...


You might find GKs rather similar to Deathwing, unless you take a lot of Inquistorial Stormtroopers...in which case you might want to consider the Imperial Guard.

As far as missing one Phase, Tau are pants in Close Combat, so unless you're being assaulted (in which case you're in it deep), you'll be avoiding the Assault Phase as much as possible... :(

BigBadBull
11-08-2009, 19:15
Demonhunters and Tau would be the most challenging, but It sounds like you are looking for that since you play Deathwing... From a Fellow deathwing player.

Signal
11-08-2009, 19:51
I'm in a bit of a conundrum in which way to go with a new army. I have a decent Deathwing list, which I'm beginning to get bored of playing (There are only so many tactics Deathwing can use!), and I'm stuck as to where to go from here.

I've narrowed it down to three choices, all of which are pretty appealing... Daemonhunters, Imperial Guard or Tau.

I'm not really sure how each one of these plays, and would appreciate any thoughts on which you think would be the most fun to field, for both myself and an opponent. I want a competitive army, but not one that just stands there and rolls dice to win, I want something that requires a little effort, and does not 'miss out' on one of the phases in the game (I used a friend's hoard Tyranid army for a few games, and couldn't get over missing out on the shooting phase!).

So basically, which army of the three is the most versatile and enjoyable for both players?

Competitive? I haven't heard of that many Daemonhunters being taken to any 'Ard Boys, so a strictly DH list with no inductees probably isn't the way to go.

That leaves you with Tau and IG, both which are heavily slanted towards their own shooting phases at the expense of assault. But you won't have to skip your assault phase completely. If you play Tau, just be sure to take some Kroot with you. If you play IG, be sure to take some Ogryn and Rough Riders with you. Keep in mind, though, that many IG players grumble that Ogryn are too expensive point-wise, and Rough Riders are a Fast Attack choice that can't grab objectives. Kroot, if I'm remembering correctly, are a Troops choice that are more tactically flexible.

So right now it sounds as if the scales tip ever so slightly in favor of Tau as the army you should play next. Keep in mind that a lot of Tau players argue their codex has been weakened ever since the jump to 5th edition. It wouldn't suprise me, though, if they are due for an update within a year or two - which is pretty good for GW.

starlight
11-08-2009, 19:55
Don't count on a new Tau book in the next two years...

alphastealer
11-08-2009, 20:21
To me the Tau are the way to go.

They get the best anti tank in the game. S10 AP1 at 72 inches ..twin linked if on a broadside suit.

They require thought for placement and movement and to get a good range of weapon loudouts to handle most types of enemies.

As far as cc goes Tau are still good. You just need to go for 20 kroot and 10 kroot hounds. This is a crapload of wounds and attacks for only 200 points. The kroot carnivore has the same attack profile as a marine minus the initiative and the hounds make up for that with better initiative and more attacks. The kroot also have their equivalent of a bolter so standing them in cover...preferrably a forest and shooting is also good.

The best part is that these are troops so they can hold objectives.
The firewarrior is really just long range fire support, don't take too many of them.

I like the dual list. It is 2x 12 man firwarriors, 2x 20 man kroot and 2x 10 hounds, 2x 8 man pathfinders with their devilfish. This allows you to drop off the pathfinders and go collect the firewarriors in the fish for late turn objective grabbing and to support the kroot.

The rest of the army should be broadsides and a few crisis suits.

Doppleskanger
11-08-2009, 20:43
DH is going to play kind of similar to your DW i suspect so Tau or Guard. And either could be fun, with IG being more varied overall, but Tau units being perhaps more interesting individually. I say go IG if you fancy all that painting...

BrotherMoses
11-08-2009, 20:47
Tau if you really like seeing the backside of your army. :D Seriously, right now guard is hot! DH are cool too but they haven't got a new codex and their models are out of date. I'm with the guy that said do guard and later you can use them in a DH list. I too have felt the love of the Inquisitors.

sigur
11-08-2009, 22:44
Pretty weird argument about DH models being "out of date" (how can a model from 2003 something be "out of date"!?) or what army is "hot" at the moment if the question aims at the enjoyability for everyone.

All three are enjoyable. For me, the choice would be between IG or Tau of which both are nice. IG is more versatile and you can combine them with DH allies.

Promethius
11-08-2009, 23:51
Well, I've been die-hard IG from 2nd edition, when three full platoons of guardsmen was an achievement! I can't think of a better choice. Endless variety, awesome tanks, and the knowledge that you are truely the underdog. Even when you loose to the chaos marines, you can happily remind yourself that there are millions of guardsmen for each one of them, and the 14 you killed represent a great tally for your 150 men!

Brady
03-09-2009, 12:20
Tau are a challenge to play with and when not played well they will lose horribly. however the more you play with them the better you are and a tau army used well is hard to beat.

however for diversity, fun and looks imperial guard are certainley the way forward

i'd imagine that of your bored playin deathwing then demaonhunters have the same pros and cons. i.e. expensive and well armoured but you get less for your points.

shabbadoo
03-09-2009, 12:31
Daemonhunters are Marines with a little bit different stuff, so it would be close to more of the same for you(small elite Marine army). IG and Tau both have very different tactics than Deathwing, and both armies can be built to work tactically in many different ways. Either one is a good choice, so if you like Imperials then choose IG, but if you want to play something even more different then choose Tau. If you can't decide between them based on potential game play, choose the army you like the models for the best.

Hypaspist
03-09-2009, 12:47
Pretty much what Starlight said,
I have Deathwing and have had GK's and to be honest, they are very similar (assuming you went GK and not full daemonhunter, in which case, unless you are *hell bent* on inquisition fluff, IG will be a better choice) in so much as they are an elite force, few models, similar tactics, and similar tactical challenges, so I would (personal opinion) say that either way DH are out for you as a choice (unless, of course, you *are* hell bent on inquisition fluff!)

Tau aesthetically are a beautiful army, can field an ok list, will require work, are definitely not auto win.
Guard are far more flexible in the approaches they can take, have a new codex (and thus perhaps better balanced than DH or Tau), have some lovely models, are competetive, arent auto win, but on the downside can be expensive if you are starting from scratch and I would also throw in the question, how much do you like
a) painting
b) playing with unpainted figures.

if the answer to both of the above is not so much, then Guard could be potentially the worst army for you due to (generally, yes I know they can field a 22 or 24 model force at reasonable points... but still) quantities to paint.

if the answer to either of those is not bothered then the Guard may be for you!

scopedog91
03-09-2009, 19:37
I have Deathwing (enjoyed a little game with Eldar last night), Imperial Guard, and Sisters of Battle.

I have played since the Angels Of Death codex back in the 80s, so enjoy some sage advice here.
I had both Tau and Grey Knights, and played them both.
And then turned around and sold them about a year later each.
The Guard are a challenging army for a Deathwing player, and a fine challenge to your skills as a player.
Plastic models, lots of nice tanks, and a new codex.
It is Guard all the way from Deathwing in my book. Lots of dudes on the table, achronistic looking tanks, and oodles of plastic to build and paint.
Guard all the way, man...

Charistoph
03-09-2009, 20:12
If you go Guard, you can still field an HQ, an Elite,a Fast Attack, and 2 Troops from the DH and WH codex each. All the Guard has to field is an HQ and 2 Troops. That way you can play with all 3 armies while fielding one.

Vaktathi
03-09-2009, 20:23
I'm in a bit of a conundrum in which way to go with a new army. I have a decent Deathwing list, which I'm beginning to get bored of playing (There are only so many tactics Deathwing can use!), and I'm stuck as to where to go from here.

I've narrowed it down to three choices, all of which are pretty appealing... Daemonhunters, Imperial Guard or Tau.

I'm not really sure how each one of these plays, and would appreciate any thoughts on which you think would be the most fun to field, for both myself and an opponent. I want a competitive army, but not one that just stands there and rolls dice to win, I want something that requires a little effort, and does not 'miss out' on one of the phases in the game (I used a friend's hoard Tyranid army for a few games, and couldn't get over missing out on the shooting phase!).

So basically, which army of the three is the most versatile and enjoyable for both players?
Daemonhunters is probably the least competitive. Very small models counts and extremely high unit costs and very old codex. It's an amazing looking army, but seriously lacks the ability to engage anything at range and goes down quickly once they get close as they are no more survivable than units in other codex's, but cost much more.

Tau are probably the middle army in terms of competitiveness. Still solid against MEQ style armies, they have lots of mobility and some serious firepower, but the army as a whole is built very close to the 4th edition skimmer and Line of Sight rules, and as a result has some hampering issues.

Imperial Guard are probably the most competitive (who would have thought with a 4 month old codex?). This army is really the "shooting army from hell" and can put out more firepower than armies that are much much larger than it. Any opponent trying to win a shooting war with you is likely to lose. That said, just about everything in this army is easily taken out or sidelined with enemy units that even only have moderate CC ability like Tactical squads. You can turn this to your advantage however in that many opponents spend huge numbers of points on huge killy CC death squads, only to have the vast majority of those points go to waste as needless overkill, and provide a huge and very clear target for lots of really big guns.

Corpse
04-09-2009, 05:27
I cast my vote in an Imperial Guard+Allies style force along with the others.

Its just easy considering the options you gave. Plasgun squads+valk/vend for the whole fast strikeforce idea. Cheap transports for the mecha-firepower army. Horde lists with plenty of guns that ruin most forces and is a force itself not to be trifled with even in melee. (charge them all or just leave one squad to die and fire at the enemy during your turn)

Having shrouding storm bolters screen your dudes for cover saves is also an anti-gunline tactic not many employ. If you want to get real dirty with it. Especially since they are better off being transported in guards vehicles. PAGK ride in style.

Russell's teapot
04-09-2009, 09:57
As a fellow DeathWing player - I'm going Tau next - I can't think of an army more different than DeathWing (except maybe Dark Eldar).

However, given that I already own an IG army, a GK army & a radical WH & DH army, I might not be the best to ask ;)