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View Full Version : What Units Do You Think a 1k Sons Army Would Have?



Sir Phobos
12-08-2009, 06:21
I was just wondering what units a fluffy Thousand Sons army would Include? Just rubric marines, terminators and sorcers or other things as well like land raiders, defilers, lesser daemons, bikes or anything else?

Also do you think it would be out of place for me to us assualt marine legs for the rubric marines? Because I think they have a more dynamic pose

Shatter
12-08-2009, 07:04
Warp Time tends to be a godsend with our TS player, it really saves him during CC, so that's one piece of advice, perhaps. WoC is also nasty.

Possessed aren't bad with S5, and a 4+ invulnerable among other things, but the usefulness of the unit can be debated.

Definitely take Havocs, and Rhinos for your cult troops. I've always believed TS to be a shooty army at heart, so, even the basic TL-Havok Launchers on each Rhino can be a good investment. Oblits can be very nasty too--if you take Oblits, drop the Havocs. The Oblits can handle it easy enough. I've yet to see Tzeentch Bikers, though.

Grimmeth
12-08-2009, 08:27
I'd have said Rubric Marines shouldn't have a dynamic pose - they're effectively automotons are they not?
Fluff wise Possessed (pre - Rubric remnants) Rubric Marines, Standard CSM with mark of Tzeentch (Post Rubric 'inductees'), Termies, Vet's with mark of Tzeentch (Some lower power/Sorcerors with powers that don't translate directly over to the game (like divination?)), Spawn as well as any tanks and defilers should be fine.

Bikes don't sit right for me - But for the same reason as standard CSM could be included they may work. Same with Raptors, but they could have been inducted later.
Remember, the rubric happened around 10,000 years ago, a lot of recruitment could well have gone on since then... And if a Chaos Lord happens to kill another Chaos Lord I believe I'm right in saying that he generally takes over their warband?

Dranthar
12-08-2009, 08:34
I think he's talking more about background, Shatter, not playability.

To me, I always felt that Thousand sons make little sense as an army in their own right. They're supposed to be irreplacable, so surely after 10,000 years they'd be somewhat rare?
What I invisage, is a Sorcerer or coven of Sorcerers commanding a small bodyguard of Thousand Sons, but also leading and supported by a force of Tzzentch-aligned Chaos renegades. So you'd have a Sorcerer Lord, 1-2 units of Thousand Sons, and then 1-2 units of Chaos marines plus whatever support units they happen to have, all of them aligned to Tzzentch.

If you wanted to go pure Thousand Sons however, I'd think that there'd be no daemon princes, for one, since the Rubic of Ahriman was supposed to protect them from any such mutation/corruption. A sorcerer Lord would be the logical HQ (I can't see 1000 sons being led by a non-psyker).
Since the terminators can't be thousand sons in this Codex, I'd rule them out. You might be able to fluff your way around the Dreadnought rules, perhaps their crazed rules represents an Automation that must be guided and controlled (kind of like Eldar Wraith constructs)?

Other than that, I'd say any vehicles would fill out the rest, which sort of nicely reflects the supposed resiliance of the thousand sons. I'd leave out the vindicator though - it was supposedly invented after the horus heresy so the founding legions shouldn't really have access to them.

Finally, I think Daemons would fit in well with the theme as well. Who's more likely to summon daemons than a sorcerer?

hippodude21
12-08-2009, 08:43
IMO no possesssed unless its part of an amalgamated warband and no other marks other than tzheench and undivided

jsullivanlaw
12-08-2009, 19:27
Chaos is Chaos and does what it wants. Tzeentch magnifies this like 1000 fold. Why wouldn't a tzeentch marine ride a bike or use a jumpack? Because he feels like losing? How many chaos marines feel like losing? 1000 sons is a ******* legion, they have the resources to build or acquire about any weapon they want. I don't think they would much care whether or not it was "consistent with the fluff".

TheShadowCow
12-08-2009, 19:45
Rubric Marines are the core of a true Thousand Sons force - they are limite din number, but I find it hard to believe that the Sorcerors cannot "re-create" the armour if it is destroyed, re-binding the soul of the Marine in the process.

Sorcerors are an obvious choice, being fluffier than a couple of Daemon Princes.

Beyond that, it's time for some imagination. Possessed could be Marines from other sources, dominated by the Thousand Sons and used as tools of war.

I quite like the idea of a unit of Havocs, except instead of being Marines with guns their "Lascannons" are in fact four converted Sorcerors conjuring huge torrents of multi-coloured flame. Attending non-heavy Havocs would be apprentice Sorcereros assisting in the casting of these Lascannon blast spells.

Possessed vehicles are also golden - the Daemon Vindicator for instance could easily provide rules for a Tzeentch Daemon Engine that fires blasts of Chaos energy.

When fielding Cult lists under the current Chaos book, you need to be ready to use your imagination a little more than for a conventional force.

Vedar
12-08-2009, 20:15
"Thousand Sons were known to dislike close combat, instead relying on strategy and their psychic abilities. Deceit and guile were their hallmarks, and the legion was commonly criticized for its ways"

This being said most CC units are out. I think Defilers, Predators, Havocs, Tzeentch Terminators, Tzeentch Daemon Prince with psychic powers, Dreads (though you would proably need to make them shooty and shooty dreads kind of suck), Rhinos, Vindicators, Land Raiders, daemons and Greater daemon (they get summoned by sorcerors right?) would all be good Sons choices.

Craftworld
12-08-2009, 20:51
"Thousand Sons were known to dislike close combat, instead relying on strategy and their psychic abilities. Deceit and guile were their hallmarks, and the legion was commonly criticized for its ways"

This being said most CC units are out. I think Defilers, Predators, Havocs, Tzeentch Terminators, Tzeentch Daemon Prince with psychic powers, Dreads (though you would proably need to make them shooty and shooty dreads kind of suck), Rhinos, Vindicators, Land Raiders, daemons and Greater daemon (they get summoned by sorcerors right?) would all be good Sons choices.

I agree, the only problem with that list that I have is the terminators.

Vedar
12-08-2009, 20:59
I thought about that also, but being a Legion they would have access to terminators and if they can have Rubric Marines why not Rubric Terminators.

Fear the Rubric Terminators!

guillimansknight
12-08-2009, 21:14
Infantry, unit of termies, defiler, a land raider and some fast demons usually do the trick for Thousand Sons.

And do I even need to mention a Sorceror.

Craftworld
12-08-2009, 21:24
I thought about that also, but being a Legion they would have access to terminators and if they can have Rubric Marines why not Rubric Terminators.

Fear the Rubric Terminators!

Haha, nice. I stand corrected mate. :p

Dranthar
13-08-2009, 00:46
Chaos is Chaos and does what it wants. Tzeentch magnifies this like 1000 fold. Why wouldn't a tzeentch marine ride a bike or use a jumpack? Because he feels like losing? How many chaos marines feel like losing? 1000 sons is a ******* legion, they have the resources to build or acquire about any weapon they want. I don't think they would much care whether or not it was "consistent with the fluff".

A given warband doesn't have the luxury of looking up their codex and going "hmm, well vindicators are 42% more effective than defilers so I'll max out on those". Instead, they go with what's in line with their background because they are the background. If the Thousand sons background says they prefer utilising shooting over close assault, then that's what they'll expend their resourses doing, regardless of whether the "rules" say that's a bad idea.

If you want to take the most effective choices for your thousand sons army then by all means do so. But don't fool yourself into thinking that such a list is in line with their background.

BrotherMoses
13-08-2009, 05:16
HQ
Sorcerer
Troops
required: 1-6 Rhubric Marines
optional: 0-5 anything else
Elite, fast attack, heavy support: Whatever you want!

Reasoning: The Changer of Ways is mysterious and his most devoted followers know that he has a place for all in his plans.

This is why you might find your leader and your core troop/troops working with someone else. Lord knows what convoluted schemes your sorcerer lord has up his sleeves to please Tzeench. You could find yourself working with the Black Legion for some reason. Heck, maybe even some desperate lord of Khorne needs your arcane knowledge to help him overcome some obstacle that stands between him and his next offering of skulls.


O, and ofcourse, I would advise heavily against the use of assault marine legs for Rhubric Marines. Would just be completely out of place.

EVIL INC
13-08-2009, 12:09
It depends on which version of the fluff you prefer and how you interpret it.
Some versions dont have rubrics at all, some have rubrics and sorcerers and yet other interpretations have rubrics and new recruits which perform the role of assault units, vehicle drivers, heavy weapon teams, bikers and more. Do your own research (dont forget the original fluff in the Realm of Chaos book "The Lost and the Damned") and make up your own mind and build your army according to what YOU prefer.

IAMNOTHERE
13-08-2009, 12:15
I actually think that Dreadnoughts would suit 1ksons really well. They fit with the rubric of being turned to dust inside an armoured sarcophagous and the crazy table just shows them getting the sorcerors commands wrong.

I'd put 1 on each flank and keep out of LOS just ot be on the safe side.

Askari
13-08-2009, 12:20
Well, the obvious answer is;

No units with the Mark or Icon of Khorne, Slaanesh and especially Nurgle. =)

That said, most other things are ok.
Thousand Sons had Havocs and Assault Squads pre-heresy, why not post- ?
(This coming from one of those who think, if Rubrics can maintain, aim and fire Bolters, why can't they do the same with Jump Packs or Plasma Guns?)

Obliterators don't fit, but I use their rules to represent an insane Sorcerer who just blasts everything nearby with warp energy, sacrificing Thralls on his way.

Rubric Terminators were in 3.5, so were Sorcerer Terminators. So Terminators are super-okay (being present in even the most restrictive codex).

I like Disc-Riding HQs too, even field them with Disc-riding Raptors perhaps.

Vehicles are also fine, nothing has ever limited Thousand Sons vehicles, so you can take any of them and be "fluffy".

So, basically, most of the units fit, just with a little conversion and counts-as work =)

EDIT: Assault Marine legs for Rubrics? Sure... they can still do everything any other Marine can do, they just can't think independently, but if the Sorcerer says "Charge!" they charge.

Lord Humongous
13-08-2009, 12:23
Honestly, I think you can use just about anything. Having a MoT sorcerer and / or MoT DP as a HQ is obviously a given, and some 1k sons troops makes sense, but the rest can reasonably be explained as recent inducties, mercinaries, and allies / pawns in the web of tzeentches manipulation.

jsullivanlaw
14-08-2009, 18:03
A given warband doesn't have the luxury of looking up their codex and going "hmm, well vindicators are 42% more effective than defilers so I'll max out on those". Instead, they go with what's in line with their background because they are the background. If the Thousand sons background says they prefer utilising shooting over close assault, then that's what they'll expend their resourses doing, regardless of whether the "rules" say that's a bad idea.

If you want to take the most effective choices for your thousand sons army then by all means do so. But don't fool yourself into thinking that such a list is in line with their background.

Because a 10000 year old warband can't figure out how to acquire a motorcycle... Yeah... Ok.

Bolter Bait
14-08-2009, 18:54
Magnus "banished Ahriman and his cabal from the Planet of the Sorcerers for all eternity. He doomed them to wander the Eye of Terror and beyond in a perpetual search for perfect understanding." pg 51 of C:CSM.

It goes on to say that Ahriman searches for artefacts and knowledge to increase his power, often manipulating cults in order to procure any findings of theirs and to recruit any promising adepts, all while working towards his ultimate goal of finding and plundering the Black Library of it's secrets.

It stands that Ahriman is recruiting new adepts, ones free of the initial rampant mutations that plagued the Legion. There is no reason why a Thousand Sons list could not include potentially any unit found in C:CSM. Reasons being that those units are either new recruits of like-minded renegade marines or are cultists who, through arcane-rituals and daemonic-surgery, tuned into marinesque soldiers, similar to the process of how current space marines are "born." Finally, they could be unwilling dupes from other Legions, manipulated by Ahriman to further his own goals.

Or for those who obstinately scream "No, Thousand Sons must be pure Rubrics, sorcerers and daemons! No evolution of the story/fluff!," use Sorcerers, Rubric Marines and finally, use Tzeentch-marked Raptors with Furies models, Tzeentch-marked Bikers with Screamers models, Tzeentch-marked Havocs with Flamers models and use Horrors models for the packs of lesser Daemons, all in units of 9. Or just use Horrors models but regular CSM rules with an icon of Tzeentch. And all the special weapons those units have are just various bolts and energetic gobs of Warp-stuff that the daemons vomit forth.

DuskRaider
14-08-2009, 19:18
I'm going to have to second Dreadnoughts. They totally fit the Thousand Sons theme of "walking sarcophogi" and if outfitted and fielded correctly, they can cause mass devastation (and not on you!).

Dranthar
17-08-2009, 05:35
Because a 10000 year old warband can't figure out how to acquire a motorcycle... Yeah... Ok.

It seems to me that you completely missed my point. It's not a matter of whether they can acquire certain equipment, but whether they even want to.

For example (again), the deathguard are supposed to prefer fighting on foot rather than mechanising their troops with rhinos etc. The fact that rhinos are actually quite good in-game is irrelevant. By the background, the Deathguard would shy away from them because they prefer to stick with the tactics as taught to them by their Primarch. Hence, an in-theme Deathguard army would have few/no rhinos.

jsullivanlaw
17-08-2009, 18:16
It seems to me that you completely missed my point. It's not a matter of whether they can acquire certain equipment, but whether they even want to.

For example (again), the deathguard are supposed to prefer fighting on foot rather than mechanising their troops with rhinos etc. The fact that rhinos are actually quite good in-game is irrelevant. By the background, the Deathguard would shy away from them because they prefer to stick with the tactics as taught to them by their Primarch. Hence, an in-theme Deathguard army would have few/no rhinos.

Too many people take the legion stereotypes too rigidly. The Deathguard may prefer to fight on foot...but they do use vehicles. Why? Because it takes too long to walk across an entire planet. My point is that Chaos Marines are not idiots.

-IronWarrior-
17-08-2009, 23:20
Couple units of Thousand Sons

I'd run a dreadnought in a fluffy army, they look cool and you can play them off as possessed.

Possessed Marines and a lot of Possessed vehicles are also very fluffy.

Marshal Sinclair
17-08-2009, 23:28
After the Rubric they didn't suddenly lose all their special equipment. The Thousand Sons legion still contains plasma guns, jump packs (not many though), predators, etc etc. Take whatever you want.