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Death Korp
12-08-2009, 21:46
At the moment, I'm getting a dragon to add to my Warriors of Chaos army. I was thinking how to make it effective, as I would like to use it in my Warhammer games!

At the moment, I'm looking at:

Chaos Lord
-MoT
-Flail
-Shield
-Crimson Armour of Dargan
-Collar of Khorne
-Favor of the Gods
-Word of Agony
-Chaos Dragon

Yes, he does add up to a massive 708 points, but I think he is worth it. On the charge, he has 5 strength 7 hits with his flail, whilst the dragon can hit with aload of attacks too (hopefully meaning he can wipe out all models in base contact with him).
In the defence, he can choose to use his hand weapon instead for the 3+ save. He has the Crimson Armour to make him immune to killing blow, and multi wound weaponry (hellfire sword for example). He also has a 5+ Ward Save too, so this makes him hard too! He can also use the Word of Agony to take out assasins or be a nasty suprise in challanges!

He also has 2 DD to himself with the Collar, making him good against magic.

Now, there are obvious risks in taking a dragon, but to be honest with you, I'd take it because its awesome....

(Rules: Does a Mark effect the mount you are on? eg, MoT on a Lord gives his mount a 6+ Ward Save too.)

Cheers,

DK

Kayosiv
12-08-2009, 21:57
Rules when taking a fighty lord on a mount that costs over 100 points, especially if that lord + mount combo is more than 500 points like in your case.

Rerolls, get em. If there's an item that can get you more attacks, rerolls to hit or hatred, or rerolls to wound, TAKE IT!. You can't afford to be at the mercy of the dice gods when you put so many points into a Lord. With 5 attacks, your going to on average miss 2 of them. Do what you can to minimize this.

Ward save, get one. The LAST thing you want is for your Lord to get hit by a cannon ball or a 12 point Tomb Guard that ignores his awesome armor save and 1 shots him. Get the best ward save you can. It seems like with your item set up, you have this taken care of.

Don't rush in to fight the opponents lord in an epic duel of awesomeness on turn 2. Dragons cause terror, Choas dragon's in particular have extremely potent breath weapons. Hide your dragon behind woods, hills, or a Shaggoth or Giant if you have one. Worry about flying in later, and take out your opponents war machines and lone casters with him. Unless it is a unit of Skirmishers or a war machine, it is generally helpless to fight a dragon that lands behind it. Your lord + Dragon is a force, but it will lose when charged from 3 sides or hit with 100 crossbow bolts or a cannonball.

King_Pash
12-08-2009, 22:01
I have faces Lords on dragons with my High Elves before. I got lucky and managed to snipe him with a bolt thrower on the first turn - in two different games. After that, my opponent is less eager to take them to battle..

Death Korp
12-08-2009, 22:12
@Kayosiv: Thanks for the reply!

-Only problem is is that I don't have enough points left for a weapon as I still need to buy him an army to lead! :D He'll be hitting infantry in the flank or rear most ofm the time, so I reckon he'll befine hitting things with his WS 8. Obviously, it'll go wrong sometimes, but thats the game isn't it? :D

-A 5+ Wardsave is the best I can get at the moment. The Warriors of Chaos list dosen't have many good items with ward saves. But, I think he'll be fine with a 5+. He's immune to killing blow and multiple wound weapons because of his armour, so he'll be fine there too I reckon.

-He'll be kept behind for a while, or a least flying from terrain to terrain. I'm not aiming to charge him on the first or second turn, however tempting it is :D

@King Pash: Thats always going to happen though when you take risks like this. But if I fly him from terrain to terrain, he should be able to avoid them until the last moment.

If the bolt thrower hit the Lord instead of the dragon, wouldn't the Crimson Armor stop it from converting 1 wound to mutiple wounds? Or am I getting the rules completely wrong again? :D

Cheers,

DK

Kayosiv
12-08-2009, 23:20
In general, no. Magic items your lord is wearing do not effect your mount.

The Dragon has to use it's high number of wounds and toughness 6 for protection, which is often just as potent as a good ward save.

Many times a cheap magic weapon is just as good as the crazy 50+ point ones.

For example, a sword of battle or might, will imo be just as useful as your flail against most targets, and if you have the magic item points to spare, will only ending up costing you around 10 points (because you're not buying the flail).

Kburn
13-08-2009, 02:43
A lord on dragon, especially for WoC, is just like a normal all-calvary army, only with increased variance. I believe, as for anyone taking dragons in whatever army, you can win big, but also have a crushing defeat. WoC is not as badly affected with the death of a dragon compared to many other armies, as our other knights will hit hard. Also, to reduce this variance, make your lord cheaper and add as many knights as humanly possible. I believe that 3 can be easily added, and 3 is probably the most you can add anyway.

My advice is as follows:
1)Crimson armour is a good choice, so keep it, many units has killing blow and can 1-hit your lord easily. Also, like you said, cannons and bolt throwers do deal only 1 wound to the lord.

2)Build an all-calvary list. Anything else is too slow to catch up to your lord

3)Other than the crimson armour, don't use any other magic items - Use the points to build up your all-calvary list, get another unit of knights, give them a blasted standard, mark, etc. - Only get magic items for your lord once you've given your knights everything necessary for them to function
You seem overly concerned of shooting, its a bit too much points by spending them on collar of khorne+MoT. You already have crimson armour, so don't waste too much points
You do not need word of agony if you're not charging front-in. Even if you charge front in, you can get up to 6 SCR(wound plus overkill bonus) in a challenge, which is really hard for any enemy to beat.

4) Don't forget to use the mandatory 2 scroll caddies

MTUCache
13-08-2009, 03:32
Personally, I don't like it... for several reasons.

First, the variance on a 700 point model is too high. Over 800 total points in characters is far too limiting, especially in a WoC army that's going to be small anyway. By the time you get some magic-defense in here you're not going to have room for anything other than some Dogs, Horsemen, and a unit or two of vanilla Knights. Not exactly scary for any army that has the tools to take out a dragon.

Second, if you're going to make the commitment to a dragon, you need to go the full nine and almost eliminate the need for any other character. For this reason, I'd go for the Level 4 on dragon. Any benefit you get from having a tooled-up fighting lord on that dragon can't possibly out-weigh the magic-offense and defense a L4 will give you. If you lose this model you've lost the game anyway, and there's not many units out there you'll need both the Lord and dragon to take out.

For that same 710 points you can get a L4, MoT, Scroll, Biting Blade, Enchanted Shield, and Talisman of Protection. No, he doesn't compare in attack-mode to the lord, but he's more survivable with 2+/5+ saves, and he saves you 300 points worth of scroll caddies.

If you're insisting on taking the Lord, I'd drop the Flail/Shield/Crimson for a Sword of Might and Enchanted Shield. The 2+ AS is much more effective than a 4+ with immune to KB. Plus, I'm not sure the HW/Shield bonus applies when you're mounted on a monster (not sure on this though).

All this said... taking upwards of 900 points of characters in a 2k list is just way too many eggs in way too few baskets. Unless you're a great Dragon-tactician, this is going to quickly turn into a crutch. Against those opponents who don't have the tools to deal with it, you'll crush them. Against those that do you'll be helpless. This list just won't compare to a list with a L4 on Disc, L2, and BSB list that is more balanced (and has two extra units in it).

Seville
13-08-2009, 04:54
I don't think a chaos lord on dragon is a viable choice in any kind of competitive situation. But they are tons of fun. So take them for those games that you just want to have a good time in. Charge 'em into your enemies blocked infantry head on and see if you can beat the static combat res. It's a blast.

I am a fan of taking a lord with Collar of Khorne and that Demon Sword. It makes for a deliciously retarded game. You'll get stuff like your dragon and lord killing 15 guys in a round of combat, and next turn you roll 5 ones and kill yourself. Laffs and Fun.

The_Dragon_Rising
13-08-2009, 18:17
I take a Lord on Dragon not for competitive build but simply because i wanted a dragon. All the same I did try to get the most competitive build and came up with the following:

Lord w/ Dragon, Flail, Enchanted Shield, Crown of Everlasting Conquest, Favour of the Gods- 648pts

He costs 60pts less than your lord but has much the same in the way of killing power. I always found that tooling him up fully led to a very little increase in actual survivability and found the save and regen to be better than the ward as a multi-purpose defence.