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Commander Zane
13-08-2009, 01:02
Any ideas or tips in turning a sentinel into a more gundam(ish) body?

I really like the GOUF from Gundam seed destiny and need ideas on how i turn the sentinel body more rounded or any other models that fit the build lol

JHZ
13-08-2009, 01:13
Buy a right size Gundam model and work from there? Can't think of anything else really.

Sgt. Straker
13-08-2009, 02:12
Buy Tau stuff and mix-and-match?

Surgency
13-08-2009, 02:22
I don't think any guard stuff should have a gundam look, but maybe thats just me

The Orange
13-08-2009, 02:47
Honestly I don't think it's possible without just working from scratch. There is just nothing similar with the two models.

Clang
13-08-2009, 03:06
Converting a Sentinel into a humanoid robot wouldn't be that hard, but it would look more IG than Gundam - whether that's a problem is up to you. If you specfically want the Gundam look, Tau is the closest within the 40K universe, but of course looks too high-tech for IG.

JHZ
13-08-2009, 03:24
I do think Guard can have "too" high-tech stuff. After all, their gear is based on the technology level of their homeworld. Not every single planet in the Imperium is a medieval dictatorship where people are barely worth their daily rations and orphans are used as fuel.

Look at Elysians. They got shiny bullpup lasguns and those drop sentinels, which look very out of place next to Death Korps and Vostroyans. Or look at the old Space Crusade Dreadnought. It has smoothe, round surfaces and paneling. Not a riveted box on crude piston legs. In the old IG codex they mentiones IA armies that even used alien tech, and what is IG but a re-organized IA, much like SM chapters are re-organized SM Legions. Some of the old IA regiments exist today. The codex also suggested that if one takes both the Cameleoline and Carapace doctrines, it could be represented as a sort of high-tech armour that blends to its surroundings. Again, not very WW1 trench warfare, but not all IG is.

How about some Starship Troopers M8 Marauder suits? The game isn't made anymore, but I've still seen some of these plastic models out there. They're rather humanoid in shape and with little tweaking one could make them more Gundamish, I guess.

jeffersonian000
13-08-2009, 05:01
Its not so difficult, but it would take a lot of plasticard and time. The basic body of a Sentinel does look a bit like a Zaku's or Gouf's chest. You would need to craft a waist and shoulders, as well as a head. A Sentinel's legs and hips would be the core of the mobile suits lower body. Arms might a bit of an issue as they would probably need to be built from scratch, however, a Sentinel's weapon mount would look great as handheld rifle. That just leave the feet, which are easy enough to make if you can do all the rest.

SJ

PS - I've been looking at turning Sentinels into humanoid walkers for a while now, as part of my Knight-class Leman Russ project.

Commander Zane
13-08-2009, 12:26
Thanks for the tips guys. I had a go at makin a more human like sentinel that my friend Kiamraion (think its spelt that way) put up, cant quite remember the name of the thread but he put up my doom buggy conversion and some FW bezerkers that i am workin on


This is the look i am going for but i am goin to try and make it look more gaurd-ish than gundam-ish. Its only the main body that intrests me and the sheild/whip/arm mounted gun combo, plus there is alot of fun to be had with the sheild cause it holds a sword inside and the Zaku has an axe in its sheild, so there loads of options and limitless fun for a mad chopper happy conversion lover lol

kaimarion
15-08-2009, 19:02
Here the link to the thread mate:

http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=183274

I forgot you had that "chop an lop" guy lol.

Commander Zane
15-08-2009, 19:14
speakin of him there he is now lol

lookin at the "super sentinel" will probably shed some light on me wantin to make a mech sentinel lol

Hlokk
15-08-2009, 19:35
What you could do, and this is maybe an alternate idea, is turn it into a matrix style APU:

http://www.nra.co.za/content/apu73.jpg

Commander Zane
15-08-2009, 22:27
What you could do, and this is maybe an alternate idea, is turn it into a matrix style APU:

http://www.nra.co.za/content/apu73.jpg

mmmmmmmmmmmmm temptin but it would look to much like one of the inquestion machine things cant remember what there called but it would be a good idea if i armourd it up but i think its gona b a fall back plan if the Zaku and GOUF ideas fail badly lol:chrome:

Bregalad
16-08-2009, 10:34
Gundam doesn't look Imperial, more Tau-ish. Have a look at my Gundam thread (see link in sig) for some ideas.

Commander Zane
16-08-2009, 15:10
a few people have said that, but guard tech depends on the planet they come from and i was gona try guard it up lol

Surgency
16-08-2009, 17:01
I wouldn't really say that vehicle tech depends on the planet, as much as body armor tech. Things like Sentinels, Leman Russ, Valkyries, etc are pretty much standard across the board, no matter where you are. Its the body armor that changes, some have ornate body armor, some have glass, some have straw mats weaved together. I see the gundam thing as being more of a vehicle than personal body armor, much like the sentinel. Gundam-style suits are really just another version of power armor. And we already know what power armor looks like in the Imperium

Commander Zane
16-08-2009, 17:30
suppose your right, was going to say that there a prototype sentinel that my IG forces where taskd with testing and documenting. its pretty much the same story as the "super sentinel" im using the neon genesis evangelion tactic, EVA unit 00 was the base prototype (AKA the super sent) and the GOUF/Zaku idea is EVA unit 01 (an improved prototype model of unit 00)

JHZ
16-08-2009, 17:41
I wouldn't really say that vehicle tech depends on the planet, as much as body armor tech. Things like Sentinels, Leman Russ, Valkyries, etc are pretty much standard across the board, no matter where you are. Its the body armor that changes, some have ornate body armor, some have glass, some have straw mats weaved together. I see the gundam thing as being more of a vehicle than personal body armor, much like the sentinel. Gundam-style suits are really just another version of power armor. And we already know what power armor looks like in the Imperium
Bruennhilde, Centaur, Ragnarok, Siegfried, Samaritan, STeG 4, AT70 Reaver, AT83 Brigand, etc. Lots of Imperial tanks out there, not all of them on the board even. Yes, Sentinels, Leman Russes and such are quite standard, but just like how the Baran Siegemasters prefer their Rangaroks, some other planet might enjoy their different Sentinel or something. And have you looked at the different Russ patterns Forge World puts out? different hulls, engines, turrets, guns, etc. A Mars Pattern Russ with Ryza pattern turret and Krieg engine and trench kit looks very different from a standard plastic Russ.

And what does an Imperial power armour look like? This (http://www.gamereplays.org/community/uploads/post-90027-1205171981.jpg)? This (http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m1250119_99060108071_WHInqpowerswordmain_873x627.j pg)? This (http://demonwinner.free.fr/usa/2004Baltimore/us04chi_40klarge_3.gif)? Or maybe this (http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m1241979_99060107044_INQDHInqpowswdboltmain_445x31 9.jpg)? And what is a Dreadnought then, if a Gundam sentinel is power armour (even if you sit deep inside it in a cockpit)? Is this (http://www.danscottart.com/Images/Dreadnought.jpg) what a Dreadnought looks like? Or maybe this (http://www.danscottart.com/Images/Dreadnought2.jpg)? Certainly not this (http://www.drunkdwarves.com/images/lamenters_deathguard/Pic_006.JPG). And just look at those smooth curves on this (http://media.photobucket.com/image/dreadnought%20space%20crusade/Dezartfox/Models/IMG00099-20090620-1613.jpg) one. Now that's extra heretical.

In my Guard I've put plenty of high tech stuff in there, either from 3rd party makers or by scratch building them. I've also taken standard GW stuff and upgraded them to be more high techish. Filing off rivets from tanks, adding smoother surfaces, lower profile turrets, Predator sponsons, etc. I've also modified some of the 3rd party vehicles to match a little better with the general look of GW vehicles, so that the general look is similar. After all, not even real world armies have stuff from the same factory. You got stuff like Britis main battle tanks, domestic trucks, Russian jeeps and transports, German machine guns, American rifles, etc. Nothing looks that much the same with each other, but so the Hell what? If a planet makes some of its own stuff, gets some from other industrial worlds and heavy gear from two different forge world, how unified will the general look be in the end?

Surgency
16-08-2009, 17:42
I don't think the guard "tests" anything, at least not in the sense we're used to... I always saw it more as the AdMech says it works, so the guard uses it...

Commander Zane
17-08-2009, 00:16
JHZ has pretty much hit the nail on the head here, im wantin my own unique look and feel for my guard. i could go for suits that the earth forces use in gundam cause they would be deemed more "gaurd-ish" but there to boring, they have basic weapons and stuff with there guns and sheilds whilst the ZAFT forces mechs have electric whips, CQB weapons in there sheilds, insane add ons and other forms of madness lol

the reason im going for the whole "test" back story is cause am gona say that the suits have had major problems like over heatin, not activatin properly and goin bezerk, parts exploding from over heatin or hard landings and my army is that bat poop crazy that they will test and improve the units to make it "safer" for other IG armies to use

Commander Zane
17-08-2009, 16:11
heres a WIP photo of the un-startd Zaku/GOUF project lol

http://i979.photobucket.com/albums/ae280/dead_eye_ii/Photo0159.jpg

its classd as a las cannon but it looks more like a sniper cannon lol

genestealer_baldric
17-08-2009, 16:17
http://www.coolminiornot.com/210732

somthing like this?

kikkoman
17-08-2009, 18:31
Commander Zane, would you have pictures of your current guardsmen models? What regiment are they? That can go into deciding what look would best suit the sentinels.

The proportions of a Gundam are pretty humanoid, they're 40ft tall and the cockpit is tiny. Making it 40k sentinel scale will change its silhouette. Either it'll be very tall for a sentinel, or it will have quite stubby limbs for a Gouf.

A distinction mobile suits and tau battlesuits have is that the Tau torso is also its hips and it has no waist, the legs attach right underneath it. If you don't have a waist/hips, then it'll look more like a tau suit than something from Gundam.

Do you know Votoms? It's a robot series with a focus on real/military style, and the Armored Troopers are about the size of sentinels.
They also have that gritty "somewhat expendable" feel suitable to IG
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wlW2s4UZcpA
check it out

Notice that their torso is relatively larger compared to its limbs next to a Gundam, 'cause it has to fit the pilot. The head is also a turrent to fit the pilot's head and sensors.

If you want a more rounded look, then perhaps Gasaraki. The pilot enters through a hatch in the back, and the head combines with the torso to create more room.


Perhaps the gundam-scale vehicle should be a stand-in for the Leman Russ instead? av14 and multiple heavy weapons suits a Gundam's stature better than av10-12 and one gun.

Or if you want a very mobile Mobile suit, a stand-in for the Vendetta.

The most important part of conveying an image is its silhouette, keep that in mind when building your sentinel. You like the Gouf because of it's broad frame, emphasized by the shoulders, wide feet convey a sense of weight and power, but it's pinched waist still implies speed and agility.



JHZ has pretty much hit the nail on the head here, im wantin my own unique look and feel for my guard. i could go for suits that the earth forces use in gundam cause they would be deemed more "gaurd-ish" but there to boring, they have basic weapons and stuff with there guns and sheilds whilst the ZAFT forces mechs have electric whips, CQB weapons in there sheilds, insane add ons and other forms of madness lol

the reason im going for the whole "test" back story is cause am gona say that the suits have had major problems like over heatin, not activatin properly and goin bezerk, parts exploding from over heatin or hard landings and my army is that bat poop crazy that they will test and improve the units to make it "safer" for other IG armies to use
have you read fluff on Imperial titans before?
They're rather EVA like, in that it takes a certain kind of person to synchro with it, and the pilot's emotional state affects performance.
With Knight titans, they say the first time a rider synchro's with his titan is very important. His emotions are imprinted at that moment, and he will always feel that way when riding that Titan. So if in your first synchro time you lust for blood, you will become more bloodthirsty. If you are nervous, you will always feel nervous in your Titan. If you're plotting against your brother, then the Titan itself will be antagonistic towards that person.

JHZ
17-08-2009, 20:37
Commander Zane, would you have pictures of your current guardsmen models? What regiment are they? That can go into deciding what look would best suit the sentinels.
Because those two things are always linked, right?
Steel Legion (http://kofler.dot.at/40k/units/Imperial_Guard_Steel_Legion_Squad.gif) - Steel Legion Chimera (http://kofler.dot.at/40k/units/Imperial_Guard_Steel_Legion_Chimera.gif).
Death Korps (http://www.downloadmunkey.net/images/s2_silver_2.jpg) - Death Korps Chimera (http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_NnVLf_FAGfM/SRCiv7X2-zI/AAAAAAAAAJs/n9-5nzVmr40/s400/DKK_Chimera_D2_RSide.jpg).
Vostroyans (http://www.cold-moon.com/40k/Miniatures/Vostroyans/PaintedV2/VostroyansComplete%20(4).JPG) - Vostroyan Chimera (http://www.ifelix.net/gamingblog/wp-content/dsc00155ww.jpg).
Catachans (http://www.warpaint-miniatures.com/Gallery/40k/Catachans5.jpg) - Catachan Chimera (http://www.ifelix.co.uk/images993/DSC00157.jpg).


The proportions of a Gundam are pretty humanoid, they're 40ft tall and the cockpit is tiny. Making it 40k sentinel scale will change its silhouette. Either it'll be very tall for a sentinel, or it will have quite stubby limbs for a Gouf.
Haven't you noticed, all 40K things are a little out of proportion. When you compared a Russ or a Chimera to a correctly scale tank, the difference becomes quite evident. So just make a walker that look like a mecha and be done with it. And so what if it's bigger/smaller/wider/taller than the original model? Is this some "model inside the lines" thing?


Perhaps the gundam-scale vehicle should be a stand-in for the Leman Russ instead? av14 and multiple heavy weapons suits a Gundam's stature better than av10-12 and one gun.

Or if you want a very mobile Mobile suit, a stand-in for the Vendetta.
While I wouldn't deny it, I myself don't feel like using a walked as a vehicle or a vehicle as a walker. It just the feel of it. So the little walker (sentinel) can kick the enemy square on the balls, but the big walker (russ/valkyrie) cannot, even when the even bigger walker (titan) once again can.

Breaks up the chain of making sense. But that's just me. I have problems, like having to eat candy in a certain order or I'll go insane.


have you read fluff on Imperial titans before?
They're rather EVA like, in that it takes a certain kind of person to synchro with it, and the pilot's emotional state affects performance.
With Knight titans, they say the first time a rider synchro's with his titan is very important. His emotions are imprinted at that moment, and he will always feel that way when riding that Titan. So if in your first synchro time you lust for blood, you will become more bloodthirsty. If you are nervous, you will always feel nervous in your Titan. If you're plotting against your brother, then the Titan itself will be antagonistic towards that person.
Don't they even use somesort of synthetic myomer bundles to move the limbs, instead of just pistons and gears? Like how Battlemechs operate?

Niibl
17-08-2009, 21:53
Haven't you noticed, all 40K things are a little out of proportion. When you compared a Russ or a Chimera to a correctly scale tank, the difference becomes quite evident. So just make a walker that look like a mecha and be done with it. And so what if it's bigger/smaller/wider/taller than the original model? Is this some "model inside the lines" thing?
"little" is the word.
The size of Gundam models could be a problem.
AFAIK there are lots of scales around though. You just have to find the right ones.
Still I don't like the concept.
Sorry, but for me there are differences in design which make a model look "good" and "fitting" next to other miniatures.
Gundam models more or less scream "GUNDAM" with their tiny heads and strange feet.
Well, it is a matter of taste actually and if Zane likes them that way, just go along.
(I fear, if I recommend getting rid of those legs and heads they wouldn't look Gundam enough for Commander Zane so I won't.)
I think Elysians would still lookk good along side those "things" as they are high tech troops and look quite elegant and dynamic.

Still I would recommend SF3D (http://www.agisn.de/html/maschinenkrieger.html) if you just want to have just a touch of japan:
They would look good with steel legion for example.

JHZ
17-08-2009, 22:22
Sorry, but for me there are differences in design which make a model look "good" and "fitting" next to other miniatures.
You'd be amazed what a little paintjob and bitz can do to a model. I've seen armies with models ranging from toys to models from 3 different makers and normal miniatures to boot, and all looked quite good next to each other when they had a similar paintjob and all.

Commander Zane
17-08-2009, 22:35
time to answer some questions

i have a cadain army, and am goin to add som kreig as veterans

the conversion is goin to be around the same height as a dred mayb a bit bigger, its pretty much the same size as my previous one.

my conversion skills are good but not great so its goin to look alot different than the pictures, im only usin it as reference and insparation but if i get it close to it then am gona be happy.

i like the whole EVA concept but to me its to nidish beacuse of them bein living creatres, the only reason they can piolt them is because of the binders they wear with out them the would go bezerk and attack any and all things.

hope this has cleard up a few things but i highly doubt it, its just one of those things. some people will like it some wont

where all just goin to have to be patient and wait till i have some wallet so i can start and we can see how it goes from there, the only upside is that this thread has gave me a few fall back ideas lol.

but when i get the parts i will start and make a prototype and start from there, will keep you all in the loop

kikkoman
19-08-2009, 05:31
Because those two things are always linked, right?


When they can make new models, yes. Such as Elysians having their own sleeker sentinel variant to go with their drop troop infantry.
Elysians use compact bullpup lasguns, Tallarns use long fusil-style lasguns. It suits their image.



Haven't you noticed, all 40K things are a little out of proportion. When you compared a Russ or a Chimera to a correctly scale tank, the difference becomes quite evident.
And those correctly scaled tanks were not made with 40k giant headed soldiers wielding torso sized pistols in mind. 40k vehicles are distorted in the way GW wants them to be.



So just make a walker that look like a mecha and be done with it. And so what if it's bigger/smaller/wider/taller than the original model? Is this some "model inside the lines" thing?
A mecha, or a specific mecha, I'm giving advice to help with that.

You give an excellent example of what I'm talking about with this variety of Imperial power armor.


And what does an Imperial power armour look like? This (http://www.gamereplays.org/community/uploads/post-90027-1205171981.jpg)? This (http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m1250119_99060108071_WHInqpowerswordmain_873x627.j pg)? This (http://demonwinner.free.fr/usa/2004Baltimore/us04chi_40klarge_3.gif)? Or maybe this (http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m1241979_99060107044_INQDHInqpowswdboltmain_445x31 9.jpg)? And what is a Dreadnought then
We all know what a space marine looks like, so how do you distinguish an inquisitor's suit? It wasn't just "take a marine, put an =I= on his chest", but changing the silhouette. Make it more plate-armor looking with the Witch Hunter, or change the familiar round shoulders into a flat design and now it's Not-Marine looking power armor.

It's not 'model inside the lines', but simply 'model'. A Gundam is shaped/proportioned differently from a Gouf which is different from a Zaku, a Dom, etc.

In the same way that Eldar, Guardsmen, and Space Marines have different proportions for their models that we recognize. Their silhouette is as important as the little details put in them (so a space wolf covered in pelts, a black templar covered in chains, and a chaos marine covered in spikes are all still recognizable as Space Marines). Wraithlords have a big head like eldar infantry, dreadnoughts are broad like marines, etc. etc. etc.

This is just something to keep in mind, that the silhouette is just as important, if not more, to a design/character's identity than the details inside them. Understanding that concept also lets you play around with it.



i like the whole EVA concept but to me its to nidish beacuse of them bein living creatres

I meant that Imperial Titans are already like that, and had emotional berserk robots years before EVA. Made out of metal and plastcreet or whatever made up megasubstance armors them.
And there are daemons who'd love to possess them.