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TheEndIsHere
13-08-2009, 14:22
What, in your oppinion, is the most annoying army to play and play agaisnt.

I play necrons, and I hear that I am the most annoying army to play agaisnt.

Play with, something like eldar.

How about you guys?

D-End

grissom2006
13-08-2009, 14:38
None i'll play any and all

Captain Micha
13-08-2009, 14:38
Most annoying to play, Necrons. No matter what awesome strategy you have in mind, your army just doesn't kill enough stuff, nor is it fast enough for standard games. And we are the only guys with an Auto Lose No Matter What special rule.

Most annoying to play against.

Eldar. Their players think they are all master strategists and have a hard time winning. Give me a squad of melta guns ten strong, and a transport that's 36" of movement capable and is almost as hard as a Land Raider. See how many games I win. Master Strategist my ***.

Yautja
13-08-2009, 14:43
There are no annoying armies. Just annoying players.

guillimansknight
13-08-2009, 14:56
DE is the most annoying to play

to play against:
Eldar!! And overdone chaos + nids

Deadnight
13-08-2009, 14:58
There are no annoying armies. Just annoying players.


seconded.

that said, some things about some armies annoy me. Necrons per se, are fine. yuo know, the "undead" theme is nice and dandy. but the implementation is annoying, and shoe horned into the background, and then there are the c'tan, who are responsible for everything.

We'll be back annoys me more for its implementation than anything else. the idea of things you thought were dead just getting back up after being shot to pieces is awesome. just not in codex necrons.

WBB works within 6" of another model of the same type, UNLESS you arw within 12" of a tomb spider, or UNLESS a necron lord has a res orb, and you get a second. then you have WBB seconds by chucking a squad through a monolith portal. and that is only about half the ammendums...

Like implementing something with a one sentence rule is fine, but the 3 pages of ammendums, ifs, ands, and buts annoys me about WBB. the sooner they swap it for FNP the better.

Captain Micha
13-08-2009, 15:01
They swap it for FNP and I quit that army.

That would be the second dumbest thing they could do for Necrons. First being squatting them.

Also the Orb doesn't break Proximity. *which was a stupid rule to start with so let's not go there unless ya'll wanna see a Nerd Rage like that which has never before been seen on Warseer*

The problem with WBB is that it was written by an Incompetent Game Designer (who to the best of my knowledge doesn't work there anymore? thank god.). Not the rule itself.

For a glimpse of what WBB will likely become check out Yarrick's special rule.

AFnord
13-08-2009, 15:13
Eldar. Their players think they are all master strategists and have a hard time winning. Give me a squad of melta guns ten strong, and a transport that's 36" of movement capable and is almost as hard as a Land Raider. See how many games I win. Master Strategist my ***.
Either your opponent cheats, or you make things up. Eldar has no such thing. Wave serpents are 12/12/10, can transport 12 models. Falcons are 12/12/10 and can transport 6 models. No vehicle in the eldar army come close to land raiders in terms of pure survivability. Holo fields helps, yes, but they are still far more vulnerable than Land raiders & Monoliths.

Most annoying army: Dual lash chaos armies with lots of defilers/vindicators/havoc launchers.

Petay1985
13-08-2009, 15:19
There are no annoying armies. Just annoying players.

Simply beautiful!! :)

pringles978
13-08-2009, 15:20
dark eldar. theres no point taking vehicles as they get so many lance weapons, your tanks dont stand a chance.

second place: tau. sit, shoot, kroot. im bored.

Latro_
13-08-2009, 15:24
My ork army is pretty annoying to play with, it's 1500pts and has 120 models in it... I really should invest in a tray to put them on when playing more than one game.

Mortified Penguin
13-08-2009, 15:31
I find eldar to be very annoying.

Askari
13-08-2009, 15:41
Necrons.

With and against, you know what to expect;

Warriors, flanking Destroyers, a Monolith whose sole purpose is to teleport and give WBB re-rolls, a Res Orb Lord, possibly with VoD and Immortals.

There just isn't enough variation, sadly for Necron players.

electricblooz
13-08-2009, 15:50
to play against - Necrons; I often compare playing against Necrons to repeatedly banging your head against a wall and then yelling "tada!" when you're done.

I can't think of any annoying armies to play (it's kind of a silly question - how would you ever know since it is very unlikely that you would choose to play an army you thought might be annoying).

Now the most annoyed I ever got was playing my old doctrined IG because I would always forget to use the doctrines I had purchased... but that was me having a senior moment and not the army being annoying.

ashc
13-08-2009, 15:57
There are no annoying armies. Just annoying players.

This.

Oh, and I'm surprised no-one has said Space Marines yet. :cool:

Grand Master Raziel
13-08-2009, 16:22
Play with
Orks (last dex). I had a 1500pt Ork army that clocked in at 100 or so models. I guess it wasn't so much annoying as exhausting. Sold it.

Play against
Eldar were certainly a contender, for the reasons Captain Micha already outlined. Plus, for an army that's supposed to be a fragile glass hammer, they sure do seem to have a lot of absolutely rock-hard units (Farseer+Warlocks+Fortune, holo-Falcons, Wraithlords, Wraithguard, etc). @AFnord, I think Micha was referring to the cover save that Serpents get when they move more than 12". An AV12 vehicle that reduces incoming fire to S8 and denies the extra melta die, plus having a 4+ cover save whenever the player wants it, is damn hard to bring down. That said, there's not much need to take a unit of Fire Dragons big enough to need a Serpent. Six FDs will smoke any tank on the table, so you can fit them in a Falcon and get the holofield.

Another contender is Chaos, which still bugs me because it just seems like everything a loyalist player can do, Chaos can do better for the same amount of points or less. Basic troops with bolter+bp+ccw, but if those aren't cool enough, here are the cult troops! Terminators with twin-linked bolters instead of storm bolters (a little less good outside of 12", quite a bit better inside 12"). Monstrous Creatures as HQs, walkers with battle cannons, Oblits, etc. Doesn't bug me as much as the last dex, though.

Still, I'm going to have to go with Dark Eldar, because it's been my experience that DE hardly ever see the light of day for friendly gaming, unless the player is a hypercompetative *********. Instead, they get trotted out for tournaments by cheesy gits who want to take full advantage of the brokenness of that dex.

The Laughing God
13-08-2009, 16:41
I don't like playing against space marines. There are just to many of them around.

laudarkul
13-08-2009, 16:59
If I have fun I forget about those annonying markerlights:).

Captain Micha
13-08-2009, 17:03
Either your opponent cheats, or you make things up. Eldar has no such thing. Wave serpents are 12/12/10, can transport 12 models. Falcons are 12/12/10 and can transport 6 models. No vehicle in the eldar army come close to land raiders in terms of pure survivability. Holo fields helps, yes, but they are still far more vulnerable than Land raiders & Monoliths.

Most annoying army: Dual lash chaos armies with lots of defilers/vindicators/havoc launchers.

Someone's not seen the Serpent field in action then. Or severely underestimates it's power coupled with the SMF save, and Spiritstones.

GMR I don't know I think I have an easier time gunning Chaos down than I do the smurfs. I think Smurfs are much better vs Shooting Armies, but Chaos is much better vs assault armies *which is why my Necrons avoid them like the plague because I use Wraithwings*.

freddieyu
13-08-2009, 17:12
Mech eldar is a bloody tough army to play against....they compensate for the lower armor of the tanks with speed, and their specialists are just killers....BUT they are pure fun to play, when played well the eldar rulebook intro says it all, you win with style....

Bunnahabhain
13-08-2009, 17:20
Generally Necrons.

Every single player of them I've ever met either:
Knows their rules perfectly, and is very pleasant,
or
Doesn't know their rules at all, and will refuse to even read their own codex to find them out.

Oddly enough, It's the second lot, when confronted with the aweful mess of poorly written and clarified rules that is Living metal, We'll be back, and the Res Orb, that become quite annoying.

" I know they're called Immortals, but they really are not, if hit by a demolisher cannon, when the res orb is at the other end of the table, and you only have the one unit of them.."

" Yes, lances are power weapons, so no, you don't get WBB. I know, Guardsmen being good in assualt just isn't fair..."

"Meltas are still S8, AP1, so they can still kill it. Living metal doesn't actually say invunerable to anything below S9..."

The kinds of explanations I've had to give to some of these players.

VonManstein
13-08-2009, 17:45
Green tide, or actually horde heavy in general. It just takes ages before they even have deployed their units.
The rest of the game is also very slow and because of the static nature of those armies the general flow of the game is already kinda decided after the first turn. (actually after I have decided how to tackle the list)

The result is often unnecessary Dice Throwing exercise.

Also Nob biker armies are for many other reasons annoying to play against (mainly the amount of skill which is not needed), but at least they make for quick games.

sydbridges
13-08-2009, 17:55
Generally Necrons.

Every single player of them I've ever met either:
Knows their rules perfectly, and is very pleasant,
or
Doesn't know their rules at all, and will refuse to even read their own codex to find them out.

Oddly enough, It's the second lot, when confronted with the aweful mess of poorly written and clarified rules that is Living metal, We'll be back, and the Res Orb, that become quite annoying.

" I know they're called Immortals, but they really are not, if hit by a demolisher cannon, when the res orb is at the other end of the table, and you only have the one unit of them.."

" Yes, lances are power weapons, so no, you don't get WBB. I know, Guardsmen being good in assualt just isn't fair..."

"Meltas are still S8, AP1, so they can still kill it. Living metal doesn't actually say invunerable to anything below S9..."

The kinds of explanations I've had to give to some of these players.

I eventually sat down and wrote out a summary of how WBB, Tomb Spyders, and Res Orbs worked so I could have a copy to reference myself and a copy to pass out to an opponent. Probably one of the better time investments I've made regarding that army, since it's helpful in case I start to jumble up the various special cases in my head and it makes sure my opponent can see I'm not just making up the WBB rules as we go.

This obviously only helps if you play necrons, since odds are you aren't going to carry a summary of those rules on the off-hand chance you run into a Necron player.

Vandelan
13-08-2009, 18:01
The only thing that comes to mind are Orks.

Most Orks are under priced for what they can do. Their cheap boyz are too cheap, considering they're toughness and WS 4. That, and it is too hard to get up to the Nob in close combat. A unit of boyz needs to take a bahillion wounds before they have to allocate to the Nob, so he gets to swing with his powerfist and utterly obliterate just about any unit in close combat while sitting behind a large number of models with toughness 4.

12345_7
13-08-2009, 18:23
Necrons for me.

Craftworld
13-08-2009, 18:27
Eldar. Their players think they are all master strategists and have a hard time winning. Give me a squad of melta guns ten strong, and a transport that's 36" of movement capable and is almost as hard as a Land Raider. See how many games I win. Master Strategist my ***.

Nerd raging blanket statements, engage!

As was previously mentioned, I think the problem normally rests with the person you're playing against - I've gone against some really nasty lists but the player himself was a good guy and we both had a lot of fun; win or lose.

Yet just as easily you can have a terrible game that rubs you the wrong way because the other player is overly aggressive, snide, or just plain rude.

darker4308
13-08-2009, 18:31
I hate playing against 3 railhead tau armies. It just turns into a dice game for when my transports fall out of the sky.

Captain Micha
13-08-2009, 18:33
Nerd raging blanket statements, engage!

As was previously mentioned, I think the problem normally rests with the person you're playing against - I've gone against some really nasty lists but the player himself was a good guy and we both had a lot of fun; win or lose.

Yet just as easily you can have a terrible game that rubs you the wrong way because the other player is overly aggressive, snide, or just plain rude.

Oh I'm sure most of it has to do with Superiority Complex players, however Elves tend to grab these types of people in, in both D&D and Warhammer. Because "to be an Elf and be successful you have to be a better player!". Kinda like how everyone associates vampires with Emo Kids these days.

Eldar are kind of like a big lie. Anyone that says "they are hard to play" is either lying or hasn't figured out that things like Fire Dragons are Vehicle Bane or Termi Bane (insert whatever Super Heavy Infantry you want there). Especially as they aren't nearly as fragile as many of their players want to say they are. I find Specialist units, that have an obvious Dedicated Role pretty easy to use. Especially when their biggest draw back of "being fragile" is easily negated by a Cheap Transport.

BrotherMoses
13-08-2009, 18:39
I really hated playing tyranids, but I was still fairly new last time I played them. If anything its my fault I guess for not reading their codex and knowing their army.

Necrons sound pretty annoying.

But ofcourse, I have to agree that there are probably no annoying armies, just annoying players.

Craftworld
13-08-2009, 18:42
I'm not sure that it's fair to claim the reason people play a race is based solely on their ego, it's possible there are some - but again, it's a blanket statement.

In my GW / hobby circle there isn't a single person there who isn't playing their army completely because of the fluff - well, aside from tyranids, haha. I still can't see that races appeal. ;)

Signal
13-08-2009, 18:46
Oh I'm sure most of it has to do with Superiority Complex players, however Elves tend to grab these types of people in, in both D&D and Warhammer. Because "to be an Elf and be successful you have to be a better player!". Kinda like how everyone associates vampires with Emo Kids these days.

I knew a guy who was like that. I know it's not true for ALL Eldar players out there, but I've seen the kind who are. This is why I liken 40k Eldar to Vulcans as opposed to elves. Star Trek makes no bones about the fact that Vulcans are just plainly a superior race to humans: They are physically stronger, live longer, are vastly more intelligent, have been warping around the galaxy while humans were still banging coconuts together, and base all their decisions strictly on logic. With Eldar, take all those attributes and add "really quick" in there as well and you have one of the many 40k ubermenschen that populates the universe. Now, go to any hardcore Trekkie fan who loves their Vulcans, make any kind of disparaging remark about Vulcans ("Spock must not be all that smart if he knew the planet was going to get nuked but didn't bother to run to the Fed outpost to warn them") and watch them talk your ear off in a fit of nerd rage. Some Eldar-obsessed fluff bunnies are the same way.

Oh and Eldar are breathtakingly beautiful as well, going so far as to paint their engines of war as if they were meant to be on display in an art gallery, and I wouldn't doubt it if every single one of their women is supposed to be centerfold material. :D

Necrotyr18
13-08-2009, 18:47
Generally Necrons.

Every single player of them I've ever met either:
Knows their rules perfectly, and is very pleasant,
or
Doesn't know their rules at all, and will refuse to even read their own codex to find them out.

Oddly enough, It's the second lot, when confronted with the aweful mess of poorly written and clarified rules that is Living metal, We'll be back, and the Res Orb, that become quite annoying.

" I know they're called Immortals, but they really are not, if hit by a demolisher cannon, when the res orb is at the other end of the table, and you only have the one unit of them.."

" Yes, lances are power weapons, so no, you don't get WBB. I know, Guardsmen being good in assualt just isn't fair..."

"Meltas are still S8, AP1, so they can still kill it. Living metal doesn't actually say invunerable to anything below S9..."

The kinds of explanations I've had to give to some of these players.

I am one of the first kind of Necron Players, or I like to think so.

As for most annoying to play against... Mech Eldar, I love to see them played as it is an exact science but when you're on the receiving end it just doesn't seem as glorious.

Craftworld
13-08-2009, 18:49
Eldar are kind of like a big lie. Anyone that says "they are hard to play" is either lying or hasn't figured out that things like Fire Dragons are Vehicle Bane or Termi Bane (insert whatever Super Heavy Infantry you want there). Especially as they aren't nearly as fragile as many of their players want to say they are. I find Specialist units, that have an obvious Dedicated Role pretty easy to use. Especially when their biggest draw back of "being fragile" is easily negated by a Cheap Transport.

I don't really find any army "hard to play"; people can continue to claim that their toy soldiers require more skill than others, but in the end it's a result of outdated codexs', not a "hard mode" designed for said army.

Which as lame as it is that GW can't really keep codexs' all competitive with one another, it's hardly a reason to rage at a part of the player base.

Templar_Seer
13-08-2009, 19:05
Is the Necron codex really badly written or are the rules just very complicated? They're always checking their codex before they do anything, so I say Necrons.

iluvatar18
13-08-2009, 19:09
I'm going to say Space Marines are most annoying.

1/3 of the time you get a complete noob who doesn't know jack. Another 1/3 of the time you get a guy that's been playing for 20 years and is just demeaning to you. And the other 1/3 of the time you get a nice game, but that's only 1 out of every 3 space marine games or so

AFnord
13-08-2009, 19:23
I have gone up against Mechanized eldar, and while it is a nasty army, there are worse armies out there to face. Necrons is a weak army by todays standards, but only because your weak army can't beat a mechanized eldar list does not meant that they are overpowered or impossible to beat. To me, it's a fine list. It has some drawbacks, but of course it has some strengths as well.

Bodysnatcher
13-08-2009, 19:49
Necrons are a tedious army to play against. It's sometimes hard to rouse the required interest to fire stuff at them.
Nidzilla are also boring - 'I hidez in bush n shootz!' or 'Blaargh! I run at you!' whilst being complete buggers to kill.
And deathguard - I hide here not doing much and not dying.

I guess I despise idiot-proof lists...

Mozzamanx
13-08-2009, 19:56
I have to say, I feel like a right cock when playing Deathwing. The sheer futility of trying *anything* to kill them, knowing with absolute certainty that the armour will save it. And even if by some stroke of sorcery you fail, the Apothecary is always right around the corner with a free wound and a thumbs-up.

And that's before I start walking backwards. Big love to assault weapons.

Vaktathi
13-08-2009, 20:00
For me personally, it's vanilla Space Marines. Not necessarily because they are "Über" or anything, but because playing them feels like having to pull teeth with all their special rules and abilities and army wide benefits granted by HQ's even if they aren't on the board or die.

Eldar used to be the most annoying to me under 4th ed, mainly because they were an army designed to be a glass cannon that ended up being made of solid steel due to old SMF and their wargear. They still are a little annoying but mainly because of Fortune (to me at least that gets incredibly annoying).

Orks for the most part are ok, but once you start throwing in Nob Bikers it gets old fast.


I imagine IG can be pretty annoying for many opponents. Tank heavy shooting armies with no infantry on the board (all mounted up) that are designed to cripple you in the first two turns and make all your big scary CC units ridiculously overkill and wasteful can probably get old as well.

darker4308
13-08-2009, 20:09
IG castle army is another force that I absolutely hate playing. I mean the number of lasgun shots that a unit gets is truely disgusting.

SirSaladhead
13-08-2009, 21:36
First:Orks.
Although I found a way to deal with non-bika nobz, they still hella annoy me having T4 and WS4 + an as-good-as-fearless rule + furious charge + a crapload of attacks per model + still being a horde army...and damn those pesky kommandoz.

Second:Some IG builds.
The one I hate the most is the "everybody has a heavy weapon" build. Filling each and every one of your squads with heavy weapons just to skip movement and assault while just pointing out targets when shooting.

Aesc
13-08-2009, 22:21
Death Guard or Nurgle Daemons. Oh look! I hit like a pillow but won't die no matter how many times I've been shot to hell.

TheEndIsHere
14-08-2009, 06:31
Necrons are a tedious army to play against. It's sometimes hard to rouse the required interest to fire stuff at them.
Nidzilla are also boring - 'I hidez in bush n shootz!' or 'Blaargh! I run at you!' whilst being complete buggers to kill.
And deathguard - I hide here not doing much and not dying.

I guess I despise idiot-proof lists...

Love how those are my 3 favorite armies...

xD-End

totgeboren
14-08-2009, 10:49
Second:Some IG builds.
The one I hate the most is the "everybody has a heavy weapon" build. Filling each and every one of your squads with heavy weapons just to skip movement and assault while just pointing out targets when shooting.

I think this is called the "castle build". Horribly boring to play against, but now that I have a largish traitor guard army with lots of crappy infantry, I realized just how easy it is to fall into this trap.

Even when I have made the army for aggressive play, often its just suicide to advance. Standard guardsmen die, quick, if not in cover.

Necrons are abit boring in that shooting them does nothing, but they fold like paper in close combat. The battles are way to one-dimensional to be fun.

Murphy's law
14-08-2009, 11:31
I play against everything but i hate plaque marines, they are boring and FNP/toughness 5 is over the top.

Lord Damocles
14-08-2009, 11:44
Is the Necron codex really badly written or are the rules just very complicated? They're always checking their codex before they do anything, so I say Necrons.
The problem isn't so much the Codex, but the various contradictory FAQs.


That and a significant number of Necron players seem allergic to reading their goddamn Codex, and just make **** up instead :mad:

EPRcrusader
14-08-2009, 12:08
annoying to play, orks cos of all the attacks take around 38 hours, to play against dunno really, best to play, orks cos any non-shooting army kicks, i got speed freeks army ohhhhh 40 nob bikerz to deploy in dow, whoaahhh. against, eldar they die easy! i play a 500 pt game and my termie squad killed his whole army, and i lost just 2 termies!!!!worst to play marines there is not enough of them!!!!!!! worst to play against dunno either.

Captain Micha
14-08-2009, 12:14
The problem isn't so much the Codex, but the various contradictory FAQs.


That and a significant number of Necron players seem allergic to reading their goddamn Codex, and just make **** up instead :mad:

To be fair to those Necron players that would rather make **** up. Often times whatever they make up is better for everyone at the table than what those horrible Faqs say.

At least if the opponent enjoys an actual game and not just "I face trounce you. I win. Again"

adreal
14-08-2009, 12:28
Necrons don't seem that bad to me, but that's cause they tend to die and phase out, seems kinda unfiar to say they are boring as well.

Ork nob lists. No not ork bikers, 4 squads of ten nobs, 2 claws, 2 big choppas, feel no pain and invuns, and 2 warbosses in trukks. Very point and click, tends to just roll over armies, but it does mean that bissgiver isn't useless.

Not a fan of spam lists in general (tac marine spam, cult troop spam, TMC spam, Dire Avenger spam) The only codex's off the top of my head that have to unit spam are necrons (easy to kill) and dark eldar (never really see them) every other codex has different options so you don't have to spam......so don't

SimpleSquid
14-08-2009, 12:51
Eldar wraith list. 3 wraithlords, and the rest of the points in wraithguard. The list has too few models to really kill my army, and is too tough for my army to kill. When my mate puts this on the field I might as well just say good game, and take the draw, saving myself a couple of hours, since everytime I've played him its ended in a draw.

arachnid
14-08-2009, 12:58
Orks.

everything about them rubs me the wrong way.

IhasAshuvel
14-08-2009, 13:06
Tau players (well obviously tau as well).

I have only met one tau player who didn't get bent out of shape when a force could beat them at something.

"Yes, I do have power weapons on my incubi...."

"Yes, I do have more AP2 guns than you...."

"Yes, I can fleet off a raider so I don't take a face full of pulse rifle fire"

Plus there is an infamous trick tau players like to do that is moving terrain out of the way to put their case on the table to get their models out and never putting it back. Funny how you have a huge great firelane down the centre of the table.

Plus the feeling that Tau should blow literally everything away so it cannot make CC and claim their army is gimped all the time on the internet ("what do you mean I can't just crisis spam and JSJ to win games? waaaahhh my army is brokenz plz buff k thnx").

harrytheschmuck
14-08-2009, 13:07
Most annoying to play, Necrons. No matter what awesome strategy you have in mind, your army just doesn't kill enough stuff, nor is it fast enough for standard games. And we are the only guys with an Auto Lose No Matter What special rule.

Most annoying to play against.

Eldar. Their players think they are all master strategists and have a hard time winning. Give me a squad of melta guns ten strong, and a transport that's 36" of movement capable and is almost as hard as a Land Raider. See how many games I win. Master Strategist my ***.

i think i have to agree here. i have necrons and they really do lack any killer punch like a power fist or even a power weapon, melta gun or even a plasma gun etc, if the person your playing agaist can pass his saves then you dont have to much hope, eveyone goes on about monolith but its troops that win games and ours turn to dust the moment they find them selfs in combat.

eldar as its not hard work to take holo feild falcons, rerolling saves or rerolling to wound etc. most eldar players wont out play you, they simply let your army fail to beat them due to their wargear then counter on the last turn
so you cant do anything.

Sknight
14-08-2009, 13:25
My mate just started playing Dark Eldar recently and they're quite annoying in the sense that they're in your lines the second turn. Its a really fun army to play against because they're so damn fast! Countering them is quite a challenge.

Cheers
Knight

Giganthrax
14-08-2009, 14:24
I'd say necrons are quite annoying to play against. Not because they're strong or anything, but because they're such an auto-pilot army. Every single battle against them is only different if I decide to do something out of the ordinary to make it different.

Also, they have all sorts of moronic rules that make the army even more of an auto-pilot. Things I'm talking about are monoliths being immune to melta penetration, being able to teleport troops through the monolith, move 6", and assault with no restrictions what so ever, being able to teleport troops out of close combat without even allowing a consolidate move to the enemy, having a weapon that strikes at I and ignores inv and armor saves for like 20 points, etc. No other army just has so much of such distilled annoyance. Not even space elves.

As for an annoying army to play with, I'd say there aren't boring armies but helluva boring situations. Like when I get my LR and rhinos popped/immobilized early in the battle. Being forced to footslog for the entire battle is the single most boring, most untactical thing I can imagine. Instead of 2nd or 3rd turn charges and overall massacre, I end up spending 3-4 turns just moving miniatures around and shooting at extreme ranges. I hate such battles.

I also second this;

There are no annoying armies. Just annoying players.

Lord Damocles
14-08-2009, 14:37
...being able to teleport troops through the monolith, move 6", and assault with no restrictions what so ever...
Except for the restrictions in the codex and FAQ of course ;)

Giganthrax
14-08-2009, 14:40
Except for the restrictions in the codex and FAQ of course ;)
What sort of restrictions? Only restriction I know of is that the monolith, if it teleports a unit, can't shoot it's pieplate that turn. For everything else, it states in the codex that units being teleported count the same as disembarking from a stationary transport.

Captain Micha
14-08-2009, 14:47
why on earth would you assault after using the portal. You use the portal to GET AWAY *and really with a 6" movement rate on the monolith and an 18" range on said monolith is it really that hard to get back into cc?*

"Necrons by pass stuff!" yes.. the whole two units in the codex that do that. One being a piece of wargear, and the other being an overpriced pyramid. Meanwhile you get your precious saves vs everything else, oh, and your own weapons tend to deny WBB just by virtue of being anti vehicle, then there's Pfists. Then there's the fact that your own stuff tends to be able to actually KILL vehicles rather than just glance it.

Then of course there's sweeping advance which completely circumvents WBB entirely *because you WILL win combat*, and the Combat Resolution rules which make their Leadership 10 a complete and utter joke.

Everyone moans about the Monolith and the warscythe as if it were some how game breaking, while completely ignoring the fact that just winning close combat negates the ONLY special rule that makes necrons even remotely worth playing, or that their own special and heavy weapons are of high enough power to negate WBB... or that Lash completely negates WBB period since it can be used to break Proximity. While also ignoring the fact they get rules like Fearless which ignores Morale basically, or Stubborn which is Fearless but Better, and get rules like And they shall know, no sweeping advance.

Giganthrax
14-08-2009, 14:50
why on earth would you assault after using the portal. You use the portal to GET AWAY *and really with a 6" movement rate on the monolith and an 18" range on said monolith is it really that hard to get back into cc?*
I dunno why you'd assault. The point is that you can. It's a huge advantage to be able to basically teleport 18", then move 6" to a total of 24" movement in a single turn.

And yes, it's hard to get back into cc when you get shot during the necron turn. The point being, it's also annoying as hell.

Lord Damocles
14-08-2009, 14:51
- Can't use Particle Whip and Portal in the same turn
- Unit must be at least partially within 18" of the Monolith
- There can be no eligable reserves who must use the Portal
- Transported unit must have the 'Necron' special rule (excepting Lords by RAW who can only be transported while attached to another unit)
- If either the Monolith or the teleporting unit has moved already during the player's turn, then they may not move upon disembarkation from the Portal


EDIT:

why on earth would you assault after using the portal?
Not everything beats Necrons in combat, and not everything using the Portal will be Warriors.

Contrary to popular belief...

Captain Micha
14-08-2009, 14:56
I dunno why you'd assault. The point is that you can. It's a huge advantage to be able to basically teleport 18", then move 6" to a total of 24" movement in a single turn.

And yes, it's hard to get back into cc when you get shot during the necron turn. The point being, it's also annoying as hell.

Given that frankly you'd be neutering your shooting phase to move after that... not worth it. "it's a huge advantage!" not nearly as much as having units that can move 12" a turn, and then charge 6" *any jump infantry*, being able to fly over terrain entirely, have real transports, or actual CC capability.

You play marines. If you can't survive Necron shooting you've done something horribly wrong. Like forgetting to roll your armor saves. Furthermore the Monolith can only teleport one squad a turn. So really you should only have one squad exposed to fire, while the rest are in CC. Given that the Necrons only work in the shooting phase through massive amounts of focus fire and combined fire to do -any- damage really this isn't a problem because you'll be getting shot at by just the monolith, and maybe one or two squads. Rather than the six that it takes to bring down a 3+ squad.

Giganthrax
14-08-2009, 15:05
Given that frankly you'd be neutering your shooting phase to move after that... not worth it. "it's a huge advantage!" not nearly as much as having units that can move 12" a turn, and then charge 6" *any jump infantry*, being able to fly over terrain entirely, have real transports, or actual CC capability.

You play marines. If you can't survive Necron shooting you've done something horribly wrong. Like forgetting to roll your armor saves. Furthermore the Monolith can only teleport one squad a turn. So really you should only have one squad exposed to fire, while the rest are in CC. Given that the Necrons only work in the shooting phase through massive amounts of focus fire and combined fire to do -any- damage really this isn't a problem because you'll be getting shot at by just the monolith, and maybe one or two squads. Rather than the six that it takes to bring down a 3+ squad.
Dude, that's all nice and dandy, but it doesn't change it's extremely annoying. This thread is about annoying armies and why they're annoying, not about anti-necron tactica, remember?

Besides, I didn't even say it's an overpowered strategy. Only that it's annoying as all hell. I can understand you throwing your marine hateboism in a marine wishlist thread, but refrain from infesting other threads with it, mmkay?

shin'keiro
14-08-2009, 15:09
Most annoying army?

Don't you mean the 'most annoying posts' ? Eg - this one.:D

IrishDelinquent
14-08-2009, 15:18
Giga, he's not throwing around marine hate (I refuse to use your other term, because I enjoy the proper use of the English language); he is defending his army and his viewpoint. While a unit with the Necron Special rule can teleport out of combat and back into it (so basically Flayed Ones or Wraiths in this category), it is not a very wise strategy; there is no unit that is more succeptable to 2 S4 Necron attack then they are 2 S4 Gauss shots. Also, the portal is really the only defence the Necrons have against close-combat-oriented armies. A squad of Necrons in combat with a unit of genestealers/harlequins/etc is not long for the world. The portal is simply a way of giving the Necrons a chance to survive (you must also remember that this codex existed in a time when you could use a massacre move to move into combat, so the Necrons needed it even more).

As for the actual thread topic, the most annoying army for me is the Eldar. They are tough to face if you don't know their tricks (like their vehicle upgrades, psychic powers, etc), and even then they have some of the best specialized troops in the game. I almost always take a Psychic-hood wearing character just to have a chance of stopping Doom and Mind War.

The most annoying army to play as has to be Horde Tyranids. I used to love taking swarms of gaunts in 4th ed, mainly winning the day on outnumbering the opponent. Now, however, I have to watch my poor gaunts get smashed to bits, while even my hormagaunts and genestealers are outshined by bloody Orks!!!

Captain Micha
14-08-2009, 15:20
Dude, that's all nice and dandy, but it doesn't change it's extremely annoying. This thread is about annoying armies and why they're annoying, not about anti-necron tactica, remember?

Besides, I didn't even say it's an overpowered strategy. Only that it's annoying as all hell. I can understand you throwing your marine hateboism in a marine wishlist thread, but refrain from infesting other threads with it, mmkay?

I'm not sure how it's "annoying" though. Anymore so than any other army even existing.

Giganthrax
14-08-2009, 15:36
Giga, he's not throwing around marine hate (I refuse to use your other term, because I enjoy the proper use of the English language); he is defending his army and his viewpoint. While a unit with the Necron Special rule can teleport out of combat and back into it (so basically Flayed Ones or Wraiths in this category), it is not a very wise strategy; there is no unit that is more succeptable to 2 S4 Necron attack then they are 2 S4 Gauss shots. Also, the portal is really the only defence the Necrons have against close-combat-oriented armies. A squad of Necrons in combat with a unit of genestealers/harlequins/etc is not long for the world. The portal is simply a way of giving the Necrons a chance to survive (you must also remember that this codex existed in a time when you could use a massacre move to move into combat, so the Necrons needed it even more).
That's all nice and maybe even true what you're saying... However, it doesn't change the fact the strategy is still annoying as all hell. :)

Basically, defending your army because someone said it was annoying is like... Arguing with someone that color yellow is better then color red. It's utterly subjective, ergo there's no meaningful discussion to be had.

I'm not sure how it's "annoying" though. Anymore so than any other army even existing.
Well, playing against a necron player is annoying by default, because all of their troops are footslogging and all use rapid fire with no variation what-so-ever, so half the battle is spent watching the necron player move a bunch of models around and throw a ton of rapid fire dice. It gets even more tedious when you finally get into close combat with them and start smashing some face, only to have them teleport out of it (not even allowing you to consolidate), and THEN they get to throw more rapid fire dice.

Also, moving after teleporting through the monolith is an excellent thing to do because it potentially allows you to take/contest an objective 25-30" away.

Captain Micha
14-08-2009, 15:39
Necrons survive combat long enough to use the teleport?

Sorry that's not happened for me once since 5e hit the floor.

Usually this is how Necron combat goes for me. Attacked lose by five wounds fail LD test get swept. GG.

it's why I totally rebuilt my army, around CC instead of pretending that necron shooting even remotely competes with the stupid CR rules. Because frankly the Shooting units don't live long enough to use WBB, or the Teleport for that matter in CC.

sydbridges
14-08-2009, 15:41
As for an annoying army to play with, I'd say there aren't boring armies but helluva boring situations. Like when I get my LR and rhinos popped/immobilized early in the battle. Being forced to footslog for the entire battle is the single most boring, most untactical thing I can imagine. Instead of 2nd or 3rd turn charges and overall massacre, I end up spending 3-4 turns just moving miniatures around and shooting at extreme ranges. I hate such battles.

...so, your own army is the most boring, any time the opponent does something to ensure they don't get massacred in the second or third turn?

Also, your complaints about how necrons teleport out of CC all the time leads me to believe you're still playing 3rd or 4th ed.

EVIL INC
14-08-2009, 15:41
I usually only dont like to play against annoying PEOPLE.
That said, those darn hopping out, shoot, then hop back out of sight tau battle suits are annoying.

thoughtfoxx
14-08-2009, 15:41
There are no annoying armies. Just annoying players.

Absolutely!

Templar_Seer
14-08-2009, 16:02
Also, your complaints about how necrons teleport out of CC all the time leads me to believe you're still playing 3rd or 4th ed.

why's that?

Giganthrax
14-08-2009, 16:03
Sorry that's not happened for me once since 5e hit the floor.

Usually this is how Necron combat goes for me. Attacked lose by five wounds fail LD test get swept. GG.
Let's take a troop vs troop comparison;

Tactical squad assaults necron warriors. Let's say tactical squad has a power fist for the sake of the argument.

Tacs throw 18 regular attacks. 9 hits. 4 or 5 wounds. No more then 1-2 necrons sleeping from this. The necrons throw 10 attacks. 5 hit, 2 or 3 wounds. One tactical marine might bite the dust.

The sergeant swings 3 power fist attacks. 1 or 2 hits. 1 or 2 dead necrons.

So, you basically lose combat by 2 or 3 wounds. Less if the opponent rolled bad and lost a tactical marine.

Conclusion; if you lose combat by 5 wounds all the time, then you're either getting assaulted by assault specialists who should kick necron warrior your ass in combat, or you're just being extremely unlucky with your armor saves.

...so, your own army is the most boring, any time the opponent does something to ensure they don't get massacred in the second or third turn?
Haha, no, you don't get it. I most enjoy battles where both me and the opponent have highly mobile armies, and the battlefield situation can change drastically with each turn + the fun stuff (assaults, vindicator shots, tank shocks, ramming, melta range shooting etc.) is happening from turn 1 or 2. This is why I love playing against world eaters, blood angels, fellow codex marines, genestealer swarms, etc.

Being forced to footslog 30 miniatures for 3-4 turns is just boring - even more so if the enemy is doing the same. There's no tactic or anything fun happening in it because everything is so slow. This is one of the reasons I'm starting to dislike playing against tyranids; they're just too slow to get to grips with me, and if I decide to bunker up and shoot the hell out of them as they come, it usually ends as a major victory for me simply because they get shot to pieces before they can ever get into optimum killing range.

Captain Micha
14-08-2009, 16:25
Two or three wounds is more than enough to break crons. LD7 and 8 is pretty easy to fail on a morale check on. and they sure as hell ain't getting away successfully when they get swept.

And that 2 or 3 wound LOSS is on a Troop vs Troop basis, that's not even something really nasty or even a true assault squad v Crons. Nor is that assuming that you did the smart thing v crons and stick an Hq nestled in among a Tactical squad rather than your STRONG assault units. *because the strong assault units are already going to be Overkilling the crons the Hq is just redundant.*

Once you start talking things like assault marines the losses pile up even higher. You lose by 2 or 3 on a Vs tactical squad basis. And that's not even the "real assault" unit in the force. God forbid it's Terminators/Chosen/Banshees/Scorpions/Melee Fex, because there's nothing the crons can do there, they just die period.

Grand Master Raziel
14-08-2009, 16:51
In general, I don't find Necrons all that annoying. I do find Monoliths a bit annoying, though, for two reasons. One, you can't destroy a Monolith with massed damage results. You can immobilize it, but Weapon Destroyed results just add cumulative -1 penalties to the number of shots the Flux Arc gets, even when you get past the amount of shots you can possibly roll on a D6. The other thing that annoys me is you can't touch the particle whip. It's not listed as a weapon per se, so it's not subject to being affected by a Weapon Destroyed result, despite the fact that it is, in fact, a weapon which can kill your guys real good. These two things in tandem pretty much make Weapon Destroyed results a de-facto "no effect" against the Monolith.

Captain Micha
14-08-2009, 17:02
shame that the construct that has no crew, and is so massive and solid that even with Necron Anti Grav Tech it can only move 6" isn't immune to a Stunned or shaken result.. yet if you add armor plating to any other vehicle in the game it makes it immune to being stunned.

IhasAshuvel
14-08-2009, 17:10
Two or three wounds is more than enough to break crons. LD7 and 8 is pretty easy to fail on a morale check on.

Oh look, lets completely ignore the entire concept of statistics!

LD7 gives around 50% change to pass or fail (given that 7 is the average on 2 die), LD8 and you've got a reasonable chance of passing.



And that 2 or 3 wound LOSS is on a Troop vs Troop basis, that's not even something really nasty or even a true assault squad v Crons. Nor is that assuming that you did the smart thing v crons and stick an Hq nestled in among a Tactical squad rather than your STRONG assault units. *because the strong assault units are already going to be Overkilling the crons the Hq is just redundant.*

Lolno

Not all troops are equal - if it was those necron warriors against (say) 20 DE warriors the necrons would win nearly every combat, even if the DE warriors had a sybarite with an agoniser you are still looking at a win for the necrons (plus said DE setup costs more than your necrons).

If a SM HQ is in there why not add in a destroyer lord? He'll certainly help even the odds (obviously overlooking the fact that *gasp* necrons are not a CC orientated race).

Tae
14-08-2009, 17:17
This is one of the reasons I'm starting to dislike playing against tyranids; they're just too slow to get to grips with me, and if I decide to bunker up and shoot the hell out of them as they come, it usually ends as a major victory for me simply because they get shot to pieces before they can ever get into optimum killing range.

At which point your army becomes annoying to the Tyranid player.

iluvatar18
14-08-2009, 18:43
Yeah, I play Necrons and I rarely run from combat.

It's all about how you set up the opponents charge. I'd say 90% of people truely don't think things through before the do something on the 40k board. If I move my 20 man necron warrior squad forward with a lord with warscythe, they will charge it.

I may lose 5 or six guys, but with a warscythe and those 15 guys, I may kill 3 or 4. I can roll an 8. That's not hard. And if I fail, I have an orb to stand right back up and through the monolith!

My turn! My army bears down on that poor, now dead squad that assaulted last turn.

thoughtfoxx
14-08-2009, 19:03
That's not hard. And if I fail, I have an orb to stand right back up and through the monolith!

er no. If you fail you are swept and removed from play. Game over.

Vandelan
14-08-2009, 19:12
On the subject of annoying players, Eldar players really tend to get on my nerves. It's the elf thing where they have to be better than everything else in the game at everything. Of course, they still complain that Dark Eldar Warriors are too good for their points when compared to Guardians.

Also, the people who hijacked this thread to gab on about necrons tactics.

iluvatar18
14-08-2009, 19:24
er no. If you fail you are swept and removed from play. Game over.

Not true, it's up for debate. But at my club, its commonly accepted that if your swept within range of an orb the entire squad is down but can roll next turn.

Captain Micha
14-08-2009, 19:27
Which is a house rule. That's not actually what the game rules are unfortunately.

ThePrecious
14-08-2009, 19:37
Tau and Eldar are tied for top annoying to play against. The eldar transports that get their uber units where they need to go NO MATTER WHAT and the tau concept of sit, shoot, kroot, as so eloquently stated before. The tau are, for the most part, a very frustrating and boring force to play against.

thoughtfoxx
14-08-2009, 20:32
Which is a house rule. That's not actually what the game rules are unfortunately.

Correct. Sadly I would love for it to be played the other way but we go by GT grand tournament and GW Warhammer world house rules. Neither of those rulings are in favour of a 2nd chance for swept warriors.

iluvatar18
14-08-2009, 20:44
I just checked the codex, and there is nothing that says you can't WBB from a sweeping advance. So please someone explain to me what I'm doing wrong and where it is worded so.

thoughtfoxx
14-08-2009, 20:48
I had a huge debate about this with some guys in the UK and eventually I had to concede that I was wrong. Are you sure that you want to hear the argument - I wish I hadnt because now my 'crons are weaker for it. :(

Vaktathi
14-08-2009, 20:58
I just checked the codex, and there is nothing that says you can't WBB from a sweeping advance. So please someone explain to me what I'm doing wrong and where it is worded so.

Check the rulebook.

Page 40. Sweeping advance. "unless specified, no save or other special rule can rescue the unit at this stage; for them the battle is over". WBB doesn't specify that it allows them to get back up after WBB, neither does the Rez Orb, ergo, they are destroyed.

thoughtfoxx
14-08-2009, 21:05
Page 40. Sweeping advance. "unless specified, no save or other special rule can rescue the unit at this stage; for them the battle is over". WBB doesn't specify that it allows them to get back up after WBB, neither does the Rez Orb, ergo, they are destroyed.

That was just cruel at least I was giving him the choice I never had... ;)

Vaktathi
14-08-2009, 21:09
That was just cruel at least I was giving him the choice I never had... ;)

It's commonly accepted that I'm a terrible person :p

iluvatar18
14-08-2009, 21:10
Yes, but the codex states the reasons that would stop Necrons from standing back up.

I don't know it's exact wording, but it says like "Necrons cannot make their WBB if this this or this happens" (sweeping advance isn't in there)

I fight this fight all the time too. And I don't want to completely hijack this thread so I will just end it here.

CrouchingTigerM
14-08-2009, 21:23
When my necrons have been run down by sweeping advance i only attempt to get them up again if there is a necron unit of the same type within 6" or if there is a tombspyder within 12" and another unit it type is on the board, page 13 of C:Necrons and if they get back up they join the other unit, as per the codex

Only 4 things stop WBB, and i quote, "A necron cannot self-repair if it was destroyed by a close combat weapon that allows no armour saves or any weapon whose strength is twice the toughness of the necron concerened" it goes onto talk about failed "death or glory" attempts (which they can NEVER recover from) and that it cannont self repair if there is no unit of the same type within 6" (tombspyder exception)

So yes a sweeping advance can be "recovered" from but they would join the other unit

CTM

iluvatar18
14-08-2009, 21:38
Oh know Crouching, though you were right, you weren't suppose to say that.

This thread is about to turn into another one of those....

CrouchingTigerM
14-08-2009, 21:42
Oh know Crouching, though you were right, you weren't suppose to say that.

This thread is about to turn into another one of those....

Hehe sorry about that, just after reading this whole thread from work i was just fed up of it and had to comment XD

Anyway to the OP most annoying to play with for me is Tau, not much fun tbh i like to get stuck in with combat from time to time, not just shoot

most annoying to play against for me is orks, just dont like them, no bad experiances against them, just dont like them

CTM

Nym
14-08-2009, 22:14
Please don't turn this thread into another argument on WBB and sweeping advance... The rule forum has all the answers.

The most annoying army for me..... Tau probably. I *hate* flechette launchers, cheapest upgrade ever, gigantic results (against Orks at least).

Vaktathi
14-08-2009, 22:21
Please don't turn this thread into another argument on WBB and sweeping advance... The rule forum has all the answers.

The most annoying army for me..... Tau probably. I *hate* flechette launchers, cheapest upgrade ever, gigantic results (against Orks at least).

Wait, Flechette launchers? Sure they are powerful against Orks, but the 5pt constant 4+ cover save against anything coming from over 12" isn't it?

Your opponents Flechette launchers must roll amazing :p

wavynavy
15-08-2009, 02:08
i agree one should be able to fight any and all.i find i learn more from a defeat than a victory.