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zeekill
13-08-2009, 15:31
Heroes

Bruiser + Wyrdstone Necklace + Wallcrusher + Great Weapon 173

Butcher + Halfling Cookbook + Dispel Scroll (or Power Stone) 180

Butcher + Either 2 Power Stones, 2 Dispel Scrolls, or 1 of each 180

Core

3x Ogre Bulls + Extra Hand Weapons + Bellower 127

3x Ogre Bulls + Extra Hand Weapons + Bellower 127

3x Ogre Bulls + Extra Hand Weapons 117

3x Ironguts + Standard + Bull Standard 184 (General Goes Here)

3x Ironguts + Standard 164

3x Ironguts + Standard 164

20x Gnoblar Fighters 40

20x Gnoblar Fighters 40
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The Butchers stay alone behind my lines so they can march 12" to a new position to cast buffs each turn. (Gut magic only having a 6" range for buffs...)

The Gnoblars are pretty much 40 point table quarter holders, or to take out large targets because all the ranks can throw sharp stuff against large targets.

Just Give me some overall tips or changes for the better. Thanks.

EDIT: this list has been changed, see below for new one(s)

SilverWarlock
13-08-2009, 15:58
solid list, a few things:

1) You have no magic attacks and near no CR, one unit of wraiths could end the game, Yhetees could solve the problem, or changing the gear on the Bruiser.

2) 3 ogres with standard can give away 100 vp, also 4 wide gives more attacks.

3) 3 units of bulls may be a bit much, they can't get through tough targets, maybe use the points from the third unit to solve 1)

To summarize, 2x3 Bulls, 2x4 IGs and 3 Yhetees is probably a more versatile setup.

If you have problems with flanks I would consider Trappers or leadbelchers. The trappers also hold table quarters, jut lose a unit of fighters for them. Leadbelchers scare the hell out of light cav.

zeekill
13-08-2009, 16:11
solid list, a few things:

1) You have no magic attacks and near no CR, one unit of wraiths could end the game, Yhetees could solve the problem, or changing the gear on the Bruiser.

2) 3 ogres with standard can give away 100 vp, also 4 wide gives more attacks.

3) 3 units of bulls may be a bit much, they can't get through tough targets, maybe use the points from the third unit to solve 1)

To summarize, 2x3 Bulls, 2x4 IGs and 3 Yhetees is probably a more versatile setup.

If you have problems with flanks I would consider Trappers or leadbelchers. The trappers also hold table quarters, jut lose a unit of fighters for them. Leadbelchers scare the hell out of light cav.

1) I understand what you mean about the magic attacks but I really really really dont want any Yhetties because it is way too overpriced in my opinion, in points and especially in money... Is there anything else I can do for magic attacks? Yetties are just M7 bulls that have the +1 str buff cast on them, for a bit less than twice the points. And you cant buff them any further with Gut magic.

2) Yea I'll see what I can do.

3) They can get through tough targets. A unit of 3 in the flank of Chaos Warriors with the +1 strength buff will bull charge 2 wounds, which have 1/3 chance to be saved, Hit 6 times and wound 4 of those times, again with a 1/3 chance to be saved. That and a unit of ironguts to the front will take the unit down quite easily. But I suppose I can take one unit out to make way for some changes.

Give me a few minutes and Ill come up with a modified list.

Catferret
13-08-2009, 16:20
Don't count on Bull Charge to achieve much. It's very hard to pull off as most opponents will aim to get within half your charge range to negate Bull Charge. You'll still get to charge but denying the impact hits leaves them just having to face some WS3 attacks.

Bull Charge is basically a nice little bonus but you are mainly going to be relying on Ironguts to do your damage.

Also upgrade the Irongut standards to have lookout gnoblars to protect the characters from cannons and such.

Halfling Cookbook isn't really worth it, just cast Bloodgruel to regain wounds.

Finally, Wyrdstone Amulet isn't a great option. One of the biggest advantage of a Bruiser over enemy heroes is his decent number of wounds, having a chance of losing one before the game even starts isn't worth it for a 5+ ward. Ogre characters generally die from being caught by pursuing enemies rather than from fighting. Fistful of Laurels will probably be of more use to him given you have no Battle Standard for rerolling break checks.

Walls
13-08-2009, 16:32
Ogres seem so very, very hard to play. Best of luck!

zeekill
13-08-2009, 16:32
Heroes

Bruiser + Fistful of Laurels + Wallcrusher + Great Weapon 168

Butcher + Halfling Cookbook + Dispel Scroll (or Power Stone) 180

Butcher + Either 2 Power Stones, 2 Dispel Scrolls, or 1 of each 180

Core

4x Ogre Bulls + Extra Hand Weapons + Bellower 166

4x Ogre Bulls + Extra Hand Weapons + Bellower 166

3x Ironguts + Standard + Bull Standard + Lookout Gnoblar 189 (General Here)

4x Ironguts + Standard 212

20x Gnoblar Fighters 40

Special

3x Yhetees 195
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Well I cut my number of units in half but I suppose it might work...

I personally think that more units means more movement, which means that I can get more flanks and things to that extent. I think getting the flank is more important than an extra model in your units. Opinions?

SilverWarlock
13-08-2009, 17:02
I agree with Yhetees being bad.

How about a siegebreaker on the Bruiser ?

Then use the points from the Yhetees for Leadbelchers ?

2x2 is 220 points, you can lose 1 bull and it should pay for the changes ...

2x2 Leadbelchers are amazing flank protectors.

zeekill
13-08-2009, 17:09
You know that just having a magic weapon doesn't immediately mean you get magical attacks right? And leadbelchers are So insanely random with their shooting and I dont like things I cant rely on... I mean once they'll get like 15 shots and the next time they'll get 4 with a misfire and kill themselves. And still their shooting isnt that great at S4 even if it is armor piercing. Its good against elf (and other T3) heavy cavalry like Silver Helms and Cold One riders. Thats about it.

zeekill
13-08-2009, 18:04
Im going to go with the original list as of now, ignore the second list i posted.

I just realized that all the Ethereal units are only T3 with no save, meaning that I can cast the 2D6 str 2 twice a turn at them. That might wittle down their numbers enough for me to win through combat res if i stick a unit of Gnoblars into their ethereals, maybe with 3 bulls in the flank. Thats 3 ranks, outnumber, flank. With about 160 points I'd be holding up and wittiling down their wraiths, which cost 50 points apiece, (usually taken in units of 5)

SilverWarlock
13-08-2009, 22:43
You know that just having a magic weapon doesn't immediately mean you get magical attacks right? And leadbelchers are So insanely random with their shooting and I dont like things I cant rely on... I mean once they'll get like 15 shots and the next time they'll get 4 with a misfire and kill themselves. And still their shooting isnt that great at S4 even if it is armor piercing. Its good against elf (and other T3) heavy cavalry like Silver Helms and Cold One riders. Thats about it.

lol, actually it does. Magic Weapons give Magic attacks, just like magic is a magical ...

Go do a quick tour of the rule forum if you feel like it.

As for things you can rely on, you just declared your plan to kill a Terror causing, movement 5, skirmisher unit was to charge with gnoblars and beat them in combat (with their 3 attacks each hitting on 3s and wounding on 2s). Even taking your ideal case where everyone gets the charges off with no casualties or failed tests, you have 5 CR, he gets an average 8.33 wounds with 15 attacks which means you are testing -3 (so Ld 5). Even if he fluffs he will take at most a wound or two and will hit again the next turn. And that is supposing your gnoblars catch the wraiths and manage to pass a terror check.

Siegebreaker would solve the problem as would any other magic weapon (and by the way, before you try arguing that magic weapons aren't magical, the yhetee entry specifies that they count as wielding magic weapons, not that they have "magical atacks" so by that logic yhetees don't have magic attacks either ... ).

As for leadbelchers shooting the main point is actually kill fast cav/flankers. They can turn/move and shoot, hitting on 4s (except against skirmishers, but they dont get the usual long range/movement penalties) and wounding 3s on most light cav. The armor piercing strength 4 tends to negate any save light cav may have and an average 5 shots will deal just under 2 kills which means a panic test (and with a little luck only 2 enemies left if you kill 3 which means no flanking bonus).

The reason why you would need this is because 5 dark riders (or marauder horsemen or glade riders or even dire wolves) in the flank can make a serious mess of your 1 rank ogre units, especially if you have taken a wound or two. They kill 1 (with a wound or two, which given ogre armor is not hard) get those hits, flanking and outnumbering (10 to your remaining US9).

Just my 2 cents, sorry if it comes across as a little aggressive.

Kalec
14-08-2009, 06:10
I think the butchers are eating up a whole lot of points that could be better spent on more ogres.

Without a lord-level caster, there aren't going to be many big spells going off. It's the low-level ones that cause trouble, which dispel scrolls are basically useless against and more bodies help as much as the extra dd.