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View Full Version : Ogre Kingdoms 2250, first attempt!



Walls
13-08-2009, 16:51
I am going for a no gnoblar list. That and have no concept of this army and it's workings. :)

1 Tyrant Brace of Handguns; Heavy Armour The Tenderiser Fistful of Laurels
1 Bruiser (Battle Standard Bearer) Ogre Club; Heavy Armour Battle Standard Bearer War Banner
1 Butcher Tooth-Gnoblar x2 Dispel Scroll Halfling Cookbook
1 Butcher Dispel Scroll
4 Bulls Bellower Ogre Club; Ironfist; Light Armour
4 Bulls Bellower Ogre Club; Ironfist; Light Armour
4 Ironguts Bellower Standard Bearer w/ Bull Standard
4 Ironguts Bellower
3 Leadbelchers
3 Maneaters (Brace of Handguns x2; Cathayan Longsword x1; Heavy Armour)
3 Yhetees

chaos0xomega
13-08-2009, 16:59
I'm tempted to say what I've been telling other ogre players as of late... dont bother with butchers, as you won't ever successfully cast a spell, and most of the newer armies won't give a damn about the 5 dispel dice and 3 dispel scrolls you're toting. As for no gnoblars... eh I've never seen it done before, so I can't say, but I imagine you won't do to well as the gnoblars are what get you CR bonuses in combat.

Cormorant
14-08-2009, 02:26
I am going for a no gnoblar list. That and have no concept of this army and it's workings. :)

1 Tyrant Brace of Handguns; Heavy Armour The Tenderiser Fistful of Laurels
1 Bruiser (Battle Standard Bearer) Ogre Club; Heavy Armour Battle Standard Bearer War Banner
1 Butcher Tooth-Gnoblar x2 Dispel Scroll Halfling Cookbook
1 Butcher Dispel Scroll
4 Bulls Bellower Ogre Club; Ironfist; Light Armour
4 Bulls Bellower Ogre Club; Ironfist; Light Armour
4 Ironguts Bellower Standard Bearer w/ Bull Standard
4 Ironguts Bellower
3 Leadbelchers
3 Maneaters (Brace of Handguns x2; Cathayan Longsword x1; Heavy Armour)
3 Yhetees

Its always good to see another one joing the tribes! I been playing OK since the army came out and its the reason I started playing WHF, so if I may...

The list looks pretty good for a first timer. ;) Here are the "immediates" that jump out at me.

1) Tooth Gnobs are TERRIBLE, they never help
2) I dont think I have ever used BoH on a Tyrant (or Bruiser) to any affect by himself, if he is going in with the MEs and they all have BoH its worth it (remember, you can use them as XHWs in h2h)
3) Since OK banners pretty much suck, its usually best to just let the BSB be a non magical one so you can kit the bruiser with some items - I suggest the Sword of Might to make him str6 and you could move the Warbanner to the IGs and drop the Bull Standard - its not that great really
4) Yhetees are a contested unit in the OK - what I mean is, some people love them, some people hate them. They are expensive and you cant use gut magic on them and that tends to turn people off. They are fast though, and they can do some damage. It depends on your play style really. I would suggest dropping them as a first time OK player until you get used to how the rest of the army works.
5) The most popular "staple" item for a Tyrant is the Wyrdstone Necklace. You risk starting with a wound, but its the only item that will give a decent Ward Save - and it will end up saving you in a duel or combat eventually...trust me. Oh, and dont forget your luck gnob to be able to reroll it if needed!

Other than those things, I think the list looks pretty good. It depends on where your characters are going to go to - that is a major consideration for ogres especially since our characters are worth so many points.

Gnoblars. OK, they can save you if they get a flank charge on a "stuck" unit and can add some CR, but they die like flies and you gotta keep them close to the general or they will run and never rally. Also, I have found, (with my luck anyway), as soon as I NEED them to move, they will bicker. I think the list is fine without Gnoblars. (If you were going to add some, always make it trappers first, then worry about fighters. At least trappers can march block for you). Fighters are GREAT against Giants though...(50 shots from a unit of 25!!! 6s hit, 6s wound - I have killed 4 giants with my fighters :evilgrin: )

Butchers still can get spells off...just remember that Gut Magic difficulties are CHEAP, so cast your spells with one dice at a time, occassionally saving 2 dice for that one major important spell. If your opponent isnt paying attention, they will run themselves down to zero or one dispel dice and you will have 2 left which will almost garauntee that spell you been saving going off.

Hope that helps and good luck!

Walls
14-08-2009, 03:20
It helps a TON.

I've heard quite a bit about yhetees as I read more. I was looking for a non standard bull unit, yhetee, gorger, etc.

if I have BoH on a tyrant and put him with the IG's, can he still shoot? Odds are I'd take the charge anyhow.

What about large units of bulls or IGs? Say a unit of 7, throw in the BSB or Tyrant for 2 ranks of 4? What about 10 in a unit?

I really love the Maneater models. That's why I was gonna throw them in to be honest. Are they really worth it competitively? I am not looking for a super tourney army but one I can bring to friendly games and not go home broken hearted.

I am also torn on leadbelchers. I've seen them used to good effect before. I figured a small unit as fire support on a flank or something can't hurt too bad.

Any other units other then gnoblars I should really be looking at? I know we can use rhinox around here, people would be fine with that. Slave Giants have no stubborn and therefore seem useless. Gorgers? Anything else?

chaos0xomega
14-08-2009, 03:55
Rhinox Riders are incredible, I run them as a deathstar unit of 3. Maxed out as a unit of 3. They tear through everything, and give any opponent a hard time. My first game of fantasy was against VC, and that one unit was the only thing that didn't dissapoint. They suffered no losses the entire game, and destroyed several units, easily making back their points cost.

Slavegiants are weak, don't bother with them. i think you can take a regular giant anyway. Gorgers are pretty good. Not much experience with them, but really good at popping up behind enemy lines and having its way with unprotected enemy characters that thought they were safe.

BUT, if you're looking for a tourney army... look elsewhere. Ogre Kingdoms are broken with a capital B-R-O-K-E-N (and Rhinox riders are non-tourney legal).

And cormorant, gut magic spells are cheap... until you attempt to cast a second or third time... the newer army books are much more magic heavy than OK are, Butchers are just too damn expensive for what they do compared to other spellcasters, and gut magic spells are... well they aren't bad, but they aren't great either.

SilverWarlock
14-08-2009, 05:33
Gut magic has nothing that is a real game winner (except stupid flukes like panicking a 30 man temple guard and slann or something but the odds of that are so low it's not a valid game winner).

And yes, as was said if you are looking for competitive, ogres are definitely the hard path to tournament wins. In comped tournaments with a decent emphasis on soft scores (like the painting, sports and composition) they have a chance because anyone playing ogres gets an immediate bonus across the board for showing up with the weak army. Still, this involves being a very thorough hobbyist (you need maxed painting and a total mastery of the army) whereas other armies can get away with much less. A side note, the 3 last Canadian staff tournies have been won by the same ogre player, the guy is an exceptional painter and a good player (and a few other staff I know are good so there is some competition) and seems to make it work.

Anyways, ogres are fun to play, both with and against (higher sports scores right there), check out the ogrestronghold.com, it has a ton of good tips and a great community for ogres. Currently that community is attempting to find a competitive ogre build (some say it can't be done, but we don't give up too easily :p).

The trend seems to be going towards essentially no magic. We are given very good magic defense (thiefstones, greatskull, few units makes these more effective) and paying for butchers that are just shut down all the time seems silly. The hero slots can be used for Bruisers who can actually allow our units to break through enemy lines properly.

Cormorant and myself are playtesting a list (his list really, I just liked it and offered to playtest the no magic version of it) with a triple deathstar in 2000 points. The idea is to have 3 large units (6 IG, 6 IG, 5 bulls) with characters, deploy as a refused flank with a few leadbelchers and trappers on the refused side and burst through enemy lines (synchronized with gorgers). The idea being that we always get the +1 to start (pretty sure thats a 68% chance to go first meaning just over 2/3rds of the time) and only have to absorb 1-2 shooting+magic phases before getting in. The size of the units and character mobility allows us to get a big unit with characters stuck in and few armies can deal with US 21 of ogres with characters, let alone 2 units like that (supposing the third got destroyed on the way in).

Here is a link to the army list forum of the ogre stronghold, you will see both our lists on first page.

http://www.ogrestronghold.com/forum/index.php?board=10.0

As we have said, these lists are still far from tier 1, it is more of an attempt to make something of a bad situation. If you are just looking for fun friendly/half competitive games ogres are great, just don't try to win a GT with them or you might be disappointed.

Walls
14-08-2009, 06:23
I am not a tourney player at all. Not my thing. But other players locally are tough and good. I don't cry about losing, but hate getting whomped to death. It happened the one time I played with someone else's ogres, but a far different list then that.

Thanks for everything so far, keep it going!

Walls
14-08-2009, 06:23
And I may sound stupid, but refused flank kinda confuses me. Are you basically shifting your entire army to one side of the board with the leadbelchers and trapppers on the inside?

SilverWarlock
14-08-2009, 06:45
And I may sound stupid, but refused flank kinda confuses me. Are you basically shifting your entire army to one side of the board with the leadbelchers and trapppers on the inside?

Refused flank means you deploy the core of your army (in this case 3 blocks) to one side. The other side just has interference (trappers, maybe belchers) to avoid you getting flanked. The point of this is to crush the opponent on a small frontage while the rest of his army is on its way over or messing around with gnoblars.

In this case we can't wait for our opponent to have much deployed (I have 5 units ...) but I would still place a unit of leadbelchers somewhere near center so my opponent has at least a unit or two down before I need to choose a side.

Leadbelchers are very useful at covering flanks because of the threat they present to light cavalry and most other fast moving units that could get over to that side of the board fast. Remember, the touch is the best defender (or in warhammer terms, the side of the board is the best counter to flankers) so you only have one side to worry about.

There are almost no enemies with lower model counts (some flying circuses or minotaur lists maybe?) so they usually end up overcrowded and forced to bring only part of their forces against our very condensed and brutal 2000 points.

One very nice touch on a refused flank that can be done with a unit of 20 gnoblars is to put them on the far side, angled in. The reason for this is to force the enemy to face a flank charge from gnoblars if he wants to come straight across the board at the main force or spend a turn or two dealing with the gnoblars. Just remember that terror (and to a lesser extent fear) causers can essentially ignore the unit.