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Leogun_91
14-08-2009, 06:29
When browsing through my beasts of chaos army I noticed something......there is an arcane item called Staff of Darkoth, it says that it counts as a braystaff (which is a weapon in the beasts of chaos book)....this is confusing as it clearly is in the wrong section to be a weapon..so these questions came up
1) Does it do magical attacks?.....I mean it is a magic item which is a weapon it´s just not a magic weapon.
2)What happends if it is combined with another magical weapon?

Isabel
14-08-2009, 06:34
I'm pretty sure the point of it being in the arcane items section was just to prevent anyone but BoC spell casters from using it. This is really just based off opinion and not real facts, but I'd imagine it still counts as a magic weapon and cannot be combined with another. Perhaps it's in the FAQ? I'm not sure, I'm at work at the moment.

Isabel
14-08-2009, 06:37
Very nice website by the way. It makes me want to start a dwarf army haha.

SabaLoth
14-08-2009, 11:38
i'd say their magical attacks. But on the other hand, why in gods(or some other important being) name would you want a shaman with a magic weapon??

Von Wibble
14-08-2009, 11:55
There is precendent for it not to be magic attacks (Lifetaker) so I'd check the FAQ if possible.

Sabaloth - the staff's main bonus is the free movement spell it gives. My Beasts opponent always takes it.

Isabel
14-08-2009, 11:59
Yea, it's a nice item. I'm not very experienced with my BoC army, but I like putting it on a wargor of tzeentch in a beast herd and ambushing with the unit. Enter the table, then charge in the magic phase.

Necromancy Black
14-08-2009, 12:02
There is precendent for it not to be magic attacks (Lifetaker) so I'd check the FAQ if possible.

Sabaloth - the staff's main bonus is the free movement spell it gives. My Beasts opponent always takes it.

That's for range weapons, and it seems to only be for ranged magic weapons that shoot arrows or similar (the weapon is magical, the ammo isn't) because the Staff of the Lost Sun in the Lizardmen book was FAQ'd to say that it does do magical attacks.

Anyways, there is nothing anywhere that says any magical weapon does magical attacks. Basically it's implied that any melee magic weapon does magical attacks, and it seems that as long as the magical ranged weapon doesn't shoot some kind of ammo it also does magical attacks.

SabaLoth
14-08-2009, 14:00
yeah i know about the staff. I meant more why you want any other kind of magic weapon on a shaman.

item is probably arcane because i would equip my normal characters with it.

normal beastmen with braystaffs? :D

Harwammer
14-08-2009, 16:34
yeah i know about the staff. I meant more why you want any other kind of magic weapon on a shaman.

item is probably arcane because i would equip my normal characters with it.

normal beastmen with braystaffs? :D

The item is shaman only anyway (to stop sorcerors from using it), this means normal beastmen characters couldn't use it.


A question has to be drawn to whether there is a distinction between items from the Magic Weapon list and magic weapons (i.e. weapons that are magic).

If there is no such distinction, then the intent of placing this item in the Arcane Item list is clear; Gav didn't want tzeentch doombulls to have access to this weapon. Otherwise I'm not so sure.

Edit: I guess it could be to stop the staff being combined with other arcane items.

snowywlf
14-08-2009, 16:48
The first questions is answered directly and exactly in the FAQ.

Q. The Staff of Darkoth is an Arcane magic item
which holds a spell and "counts as a Braystaff"
in close combat. As the item is not literally a
‘Magic Weapon’, do attacks from the Staff of
Darkoth count as magical?

A. Yes, they are attacks by a staff that is a magic
item, and therefore count as magical.

The second question boils down to personal interpretation. In the main rulebook it states "No character can carry more than one magic weapon."

If you interpret that to mean Magic Weapon as in the category then you can take a Magic Weapon and an Arcane Item (the Staff in this case). If you interpret that to mean magic weapon as in any weapon that is magical, then you cannot take an addition Magic Weapon.

Harwammer
14-08-2009, 16:54
If you interpret that to mean Magic Weapon as in the category then you can take a Magic Weapon and an Arcane Item (the Staff in this case). If you interpret that to mean magic weapon as in any weapon that is magical, then you cannot take an addition Magic Weapon.

Basically the consequences of the interpretations are either:

1) A Tzeentch beastlord may take the Staff of Darkoth along side a magic weapon (as SoD doesn't count as a magic weapon)
2) A Tzeentch Doombull may take a SoD (as it counts as a magic weapon, even if not part of the magic weapon list).

Jushak
14-08-2009, 18:16
Yea, it's a nice item. I'm not very experienced with my BoC army, but I like putting it on a wargor of tzeentch in a beast herd and ambushing with the unit. Enter the table, then charge in the magic phase.

On strict reading of the armybook that's sadly not possible. Mark of Tzeentch says that the character becomes sorcerer while the staff says shaman only.

siphon101
14-08-2009, 18:20
On strict reading of the armybook that's sadly not possible. Mark of Tzeentch says that the character becomes sorcerer while the staff says shaman only.

Indeed, "sorcerer" is a description of a mode who is able to cast, "shaman" is a unit type. Wargores of tzeentch, sorcerers though they may be, are not shamans.

Belerophon709
14-08-2009, 18:34
The item is shaman only anyway (to stop sorcerors from using it), this means normal beastmen characters couldn't use it.


The BoC-book defines shamans as including "regular" beastmen-characters (Beastlords and Wargors) w. the mark of Tzeentch.



Bele

Harwammer
14-08-2009, 18:35
Indeed, "sorcerer" is a description of a mode who is able to cast, "shaman" is a unit type. Wargores of tzeentch, sorcerers though they may be, are not shamans.

What are you guys talking about? The magic section in BoC book says 'shaman' decribes all BoC characters that cast spells, including those with the mark of tzeentch. As such they can use the SoD.

siphon101
14-08-2009, 18:47
What are you guys talking about? The magic section in BoC book says 'shaman' decribes all BoC characters that cast spells, including those with the mark of tzeentch. As such they can use the SoD.

hah, well, I stand corrected.

Jushak
14-08-2009, 18:52
What are you guys talking about? The magic section in BoC book says 'shaman' decribes all BoC characters that cast spells, including those with the mark of tzeentch. As such they can use the SoD.

Bah, I knew there was something I must have missed. Why GW has to spread the rules all over the place I'll never understand: Would've been much easier to just write "Character becomes a shaman" than "Character becomes a Sorcerer" and then putting that remark about MoT characters counting as shamans in whole other end of the armybook *sigh*