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BrPrometheus
14-08-2009, 14:20
Where in the rulebook does it say you do not reveal the equipment on a character prior to it being used? Does it only reference magic equipment? What about deamons who have no magic equipment?

SabaLoth
14-08-2009, 14:42
don't know the official ruling but we always play that you can see obvious equipment and you get to see magic items/powers when they are used

nosferatu1001
14-08-2009, 15:16
Wysiwyg only ever states that you have to show, on the model (or majority if in a unit) all upgrades and weapons options.

There is no similar statement for magical weapons; it even states, for example, that a magical "sword of striking" may actually look like anything, it doesn;t have to be a sword.

IF you had to declare magical items it would make a lot of special items pointless, those which make opponents reveal items

sulla
15-08-2009, 02:28
:pBoot of striking...:D:D:D

Condottiere
15-08-2009, 05:21
The model had better not be barefoot, then.

BrPrometheus
15-08-2009, 23:05
Let me clarifyrior to the current edition. You never had to disclose your magic items until they were actually used. That was in the actual rulebook. I went looking for it in the current rulebook and could not find it. There are many items that are no longer really useful in the current edition my point is I believe the rule has changed and fantay is to be played with an open list like 40K. I was hoping that someone could point out the rule for me. If I am incorrect.

Crazy Harborc
16-08-2009, 00:28
I don't think it's in the 7th Edition either way. Old grey cells in my old fart brain.

I don't recall any rules requiring you tell an opponent about magic toys until they are used. THAT said....armour, weapons....can be seen. Unless a magic items description mentions an item looks very special as out of the "norm" for a weapon, armour or whatever, tell um it's a weapon/sword/whatever or a piece of armour/shield/helmet etc.

Lord Zarkov
16-08-2009, 09:11
I went looking for it in the current rulebook and could not find it. There are many items that are no longer really useful in the current edition my point is I believe the rule has changed and fantay is to be played with an open list like 40K. I was hoping that someone could point out the rule for me. If I am incorrect.

There are still a number of Items printed after the new book that solely exist to reveal Magic Items though (Empire Crystal Ball for one).

Interestingly though, while there is no rule specifically allowing magic items to be hidden, there is (unlike 40K) no rule allowing your opponent to look either (permissive ruleset and all). In fact the only rules vaguely relating even to any form of wisiwig is in the mundane weapons section saying a unit must be modelled with a majority of the appropiate weapons and the units section vaguely allusing to using the correct models for each unit.

SabaLoth
17-08-2009, 06:46
On a slightly different road, how about chaos marks? do you have to reveal them. I always want to know any possible marks but my gaming friend states that he doesn't have to reveal it. He thinks you can be marked without all the OBVIOUS markings

one of his arguments is that there are lots af marked chaos worshippers living normally in the empire.

Milgram
17-08-2009, 09:29
chaos marks are shown.
gifts are discutable, we normally hide them.

fluff arguments do not count. also WoC do not include the worshippers living within the empire but only the barbaric tribes from the nord. when arguing with fluff, best read the armybook first.

SabaLoth
17-08-2009, 14:31
i know, he doesn't

but where does it say that in the rules??

nosferatu1001
17-08-2009, 17:49
Are Marks magic items? No you say? Then you have to reveal them.

The default status is wysiwyg, magic items have an exception to this. If your opponent wants something they have to prove permission to do so.

In short, get him to show you where he can hide marks.

HereticLosMorte
17-08-2009, 20:39
you tell them the basics.
yes, model is wearing armor (only have to reveal what the armor does when you have to use it the first time.) treat as generic armor until then.
yes, model has a sword [1h, 2h, additional] (only have to reveal when first used) treat as generic weapon until then.
magic items not revealed until first used
marks of chaos revealed (a khorne, slaanesh, tzeentch, or nurgle aligned will be quite easy to spot).

larabic
17-08-2009, 20:42
Good to know about the marks, i always wondered that.

Jushak
17-08-2009, 22:49
I could see how someone could argue that marks don't need to be shown, but on the other hand, modeling your army to show them is one of the more rewarding parts in making a WoC army in my humble opinion. Especially as you know you've succeeded when the opposition goes: "these guys have mark X, right?", or when they don't even need to verify it :p

Dexter099
17-08-2009, 22:59
The model had better not be barefoot, then.

What if he's wearing the boot on his head? ;)

Crazy Harborc
17-08-2009, 23:42
Um....."marks of whatever"....don't they need to be visible so the correct gods will know to pay attention to those guys. If they are visable marks they can be seen by anyone.;)

The Red Scourge
18-08-2009, 13:14
The only thing I'd reveal about characters, is if they're on a mount or not. A vampire for instance only have one option for a light armor, making it rather obvious, what the effects are if he is wearing one.

Marks of Chaos on units.. I have my doubts on this one.. They might be obvious, when they're bathed in blood with brass skull runes all over their armor, but then again who says the opponent knows how to interpret this. The empire for instance will pursue and burn anyone who seeks knowledge of chaos in order to stop corruption. And don't tell me that an orc warlord would take more than casual interest in his enemy beyond how many heads he'll have to bash. Etc. Etc. On the other hand GW puts a lot work into having their staff paint their models to follow the divine regimented paint scheme of the gods of chaos - which does make it rather obvious to discern..

But then again my tribe of Kurgan follow Fizzle'Gukk - he who is destined to consume the gods and rule supreme. Whose followers have their own chaotic way to show their devotion to the Despot of the Final Age - see, now you have no fluffy way to demand, that tzeentchians are dressed in yellow and purple, and the khornate need not have a fetish for red and brass, its chaos after all.

nosferatu1001
18-08-2009, 16:02
Is light armour mundane? Then it must be revealed. Sorry Red Scourge but you have no choice in the matter.

Marks of Chaos are also mundane (as they are not magical) therefore you must reveal them. While you don't want to reveal them, you are required to have all models be wysiwyg - and in a tournament (generally) not explaining this is against the rules, as you have a pregame explanation phase. Certainly GT you must do so, and any attempts to hide it (conveniently not stating the unit is MoK so the opponent doesnt bait the unit in the same way) would hurt your comp and might get you disqual'd.

Magical? Don't show it
Mundane? Must be shown or declared.

bert n ernie
18-08-2009, 16:45
What about the Daemon Books 'We're not magical' magic items?
On what side do they lie in this argument?
In my opinion if they are not going to count as magical items, then they should be revealed to your opponent, but then I'm biased.

Condottiere
18-08-2009, 20:58
I get the impression these things can take the form of anything, yet still cause the desired effect.