View Full Version : Grave Guard and Math

Ultimate Life Form
14-08-2009, 14:35
Okay people, I want to finally put the finishing touches on my VC army. My trademark unit is the utterly awesome Grave Guard of which I cannot have enough. I have two units with very different roles in my army. One are the standard GG with Handweapon/Shield who are intended to tank and bunker my characters (anvil). The other has Great Weapons and is supposed to kill stuff (hammer).

Now I use some tricky item combination to further increase their performance. A support Vampire will use Helm of Commandment to transfer his WS to the Great Weapon GG, making them hit on a 3+ against most stuff. Also, they have the Banner of the Burrows which confers a +1 to hit bonus, so they are expected to hit on a 2+. So basically I have two entirely different units of GG:

Hand Weapon
(is expected to) hit on 4+, wound on 3-4+, Killing Blow

Great weapon
(is expected to) hit on 2+, wound on 2+, Killing Blow

So far, so good. Now the matter is complicated by my wish to include the Royal Standard of Strigos in a unit. This standard will grant hatred, so I can reroll failed to hit rolls. But only one unit can have it. Now the question is.

Which unit would benefit more from hatred? Of course I see that the Great Weapon GG are a good choice because what they hit, they usually kill. But they already have such a good chance to hit, I would get to reroll only the 1's and that would be a bit of a waste wouldn't it. On the other hand, the Hand Weapon GG would make good use of it, getting an average 50% rerolls, thereby greatly increasing their performance. Which unit would you stick the BSB in, also dependent on the role they play in the army? After that, in which unit would you put a Wight King with Sword of Kings (hits on 3+ in HW unit, 2+ in GW unit, wounds on 3-4+, 5+ Killing Blow)?

Thanks in advance.

14-08-2009, 14:37
defensive unit, nuff said :p

14-08-2009, 14:55
defensive unit, nuff said :p

being able to reroll 1s is abit overkill imo

14-08-2009, 19:12
You said you already have Banner of Barrows on the great weapon guys, so unless you wanna waste a BSB just to take Royal standard of Strigos it can only go in the hand weapon + shield unit.

14-08-2009, 19:19
Hitting on 2+ your hit % is about 84 with the standard it would be bumped to about 96.5 a jump of 12.5.

The other unit hitting on 4s is 50%, re-rolling misses would be 75% a bump of 25%

Statistically, even with the lower wound roll you're better off with it on the defensive unit, especially when you factor in Killing Blow and your characters re-rolling misses.

15-08-2009, 10:51
Sorry if this is a bit late, but I'd actually swap the Barrows standard on the Great Weapon Grave Guard for the Strigos, and give the Barrows over to the defensive unit. Without Barrows, the GW unit will be hitting on 3s rerollable, but as Strigos gives Hatred rather than rerolls, it's not as good on the defensive unit as they won't break the enemy in a single turn. The Barrows lasts for the entire combat however, so on the attrition-bound HW+Shield GGs, they'll have their bonus throughout their fight.

15-08-2009, 18:10
The defensive unit as it means you don't have to put a battle standard in a unit designed to get stuck in against units which can just allocate against him for easy VP. Hatred on the defensive unit means the vampires you have in it also get to benefit incase the find themselves in trouble.

Brother J
15-08-2009, 18:54
Hatred banner in the bunker unit. Sure, it's going to be a relatively expensive unit with characters and what not, but I'd prefer having two good units (Without characters.) then one great and one decent.

Ultimate Life Form
16-08-2009, 05:01
So the general consensus is to put the hatred on the defensive unit. Well, I guess deep inside I knew it, having to take a BSB just for the added effect of rerolling 1's is quite a waste, but I wasn't sure because I was so enchanted by the idea of a GG unit that was really, REALLY killy, so I wanted to know what you guys think. Thanks!

Oh, and I just realized it's Banner of BARROWS, not Burrows. Sorry, I don't have the English copy...;)

16-08-2009, 08:03
I'm not sure why the consensus is to use Strigos on the bunker; it seems quite nonsensical to me. If the HoC is in a separate area (which it should be) it can buff either unit, so that the defensive unit can keep the attrition wars going with a high WS and +1 to hit, then the Helm's effect can be swapped to the GW group in order to deal large amounts of damage with their rerolls and augmented WS, likely breaking the enemy.