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Mozzamanx
14-08-2009, 23:02
Ello,

I'm building up a tournament list, and am still tweaking it. In the practice games I've had, its been obvious that I'm lacking solid combat units, as well as needing a solid core to work around.
Unfortunately, I can only afford about 220pts, which would leave me with an extremely small unit, and I'm having doubts about whether it's enough.

What I was thinking was 10 Tzeentch Warriors with Halberds and Shields, and a Standard Bearer.

However, 10 just looks extremely small on paper, and I really don't know if it's enough. Does anyone have any experience fielding small units of Warriors?

Thanks for any advice

Bauknefer
14-08-2009, 23:51
i find that 5 wide warriors with just shields works great. drop the halberds and MoT and get more warriors imo

FallenAfh
15-08-2009, 00:06
I use 3 units of 10 with MoK, GWs and Shields. Expand to maximum frontage depending on what you're facing, usually 6 or maybe 7, everything else is just spare casualties.

Azethel
15-08-2009, 15:35
I generally run mine 12 strong (6x2) marked slaanesh after I had several failed fear checks (Ld 8 is not that good).

For cheap SCR you can get around 25 marauders and change for the same price.

SilverWarlock
16-08-2009, 18:07
You are probably better off with MoK and hallberds. 10 strong is not going to take charges regardless, is not a big problem if it gets baited and is likely to have to take leadership checks at some point. You want them for flanking and extra attacks, so MoK seems best.

Actually for 200 points 10 with shield halberd MoK are scary. Ranked 6 wide (3 attacks are better than 1 rank) that's 18 WS5 S5 attacks on I5 ... brutal, especially from a unit with T4 and a 3+ save.

zeekill
17-08-2009, 05:27
You are probably better off with MoK and hallberds. 10 strong is not going to take charges regardless, is not a big problem if it gets baited and is likely to have to take leadership checks at some point. You want them for flanking and extra attacks, so MoK seems best.

Actually for 200 points 10 with shield halberd MoK are scary. Ranked 6 wide (3 attacks are better than 1 rank) that's 18 WS5 S5 attacks on I5 ... brutal, especially from a unit with T4 and a 3+ save.

Its a 4+ save because you cant use Halberds and shields at the same time, halberds are 2-handed weapons

Also I actually think that small units of warriors (10 or 12 man strong) with the mark of slannesh works out great. Warrior's worst enemy is poor maneuverability and having more units will limit that. If I played Chaos I would go for Knights. Youre so good at combat, why are you limiting yourself by making yourself wait an extra 2 turns to get into combat. In small points run 1-2 unit of knights and 2-4 units of marauder horsies. Not many things can take that. Just hit them in the front with a Knight unit and tear them up or hit them in the flank and rear simultaneously with the marauder horsemen (with flails).

nzdarkelf
17-08-2009, 13:12
In a tourney you never know who/what you are coming up against. Ten is good. Rank them 6 wide, 7 if you are facing 25mm based troops or cav. Go for MoK & GW's for greater hitting power - lets face it with no static res, the more wounds you cause the better. Give them shields (10pts), and if you have the points Additional Hand Weapons (for only 10pts also). Now your unit is tooled up for anything. Hard hitting str6 vs high armour, or use the shields for the 2+ ar sv if need be. Plus the option of a 4th attack vs low To, low armoured troops such as Elves or Zombies.

Drachen_Jager
17-08-2009, 20:19
Actually for 200 points 10 with shield halberd MoK are scary. Ranked 6 wide (3 attacks are better than 1 rank) that's 18 WS5 S5 attacks on I5 ... brutal, especially from a unit with T4 and a 3+ save.

But... For 270 you could get 18 S5, 12 S4 attacks and a 1+ AS and a 7" move...

Jushak
18-08-2009, 01:35
I currently run my Nurgle warriors 6x2 with shields and full command. Today they had fun holding big block of high elf spearmen (with GW hero) and smaller block of swordmasters in combat for 5 or so rounds of combat, with the elves totalling roughly twice their own points.

Ironically they only lost due the massive combat resolution they had to overcome before any attacks, and only lost 4 among them before fleeing and being ran off the table. My opponent was deeply upset by the inability of his swordmasters to cut down more than 3 warriors in 5 turns of battle - champion fell to the GW of the hero leading the spearmen.

bubbathebrute
26-08-2009, 00:19
I often run a unit of 10-12 warriors with the rapturous banner. I dont think my warriors have died any other way besides being run down. This banner gives a little bit extra chance that they will be staying around when up against a unit with a high static combat res.

Joezombie
26-08-2009, 06:00
I fight heavy shooty armies. So I run 15, 6 wide, full command, shield, MoSlaneesh. All my efforts go to just getting them into combat, where ironically, they'll be safe, lore of Slaneesh seems interesting...

CrownAxe
26-08-2009, 06:10
I currently run my Nurgle warriors 6x2 with shields and full command. Today they had fun holding big block of high elf spearmen (with GW hero) and smaller block of swordmasters in combat for 5 or so rounds of combat, with the elves totalling roughly twice their own points.

Ironically they only lost due the massive combat resolution they had to overcome before any attacks, and only lost 4 among them before fleeing and being ran off the table. My opponent was deeply upset by the inability of his swordmasters to cut down more than 3 warriors in 5 turns of battle - champion fell to the GW of the hero leading the spearmen.

Shame the FAQ nerfed the Nurgle Mark

Jushak
26-08-2009, 11:31
Shame the FAQ nerfed the Nurgle Mark

Its main function - as I see it anyway - is still there: keeping your casualties down. Besides, how often did one meet WS5 troops opponents? Seeing as those were the only kind you got to hit on 3+ due the mark, I don't see it as that big a loss.

Dexter099
27-08-2009, 01:00
Warriors shouldn't be for the most part in small units. 12 is ok, but you want to make sure that you at least have a unit of 15+.

CrownAxe
27-08-2009, 06:31
Its main function - as I see it anyway - is still there: keeping your casualties down. Besides, how often did one meet WS5 troops opponents? Seeing as those were the only kind you got to hit on 3+ due the mark, I don't see it as that big a loss.

You don't get the bonus for YOUR attacks, they only lose WS for when they attack you

If you want the mark purely for reducing casualties, you might as well take mark of tzeentch for 6+ ward, its give pretty much the same protective advantage except it works on EVERYTHING instead of just shooting and a single WS

eyescrossed
01-09-2009, 07:57
You don't get the bonus for YOUR attacks, they only lose WS for when they attack you

If you want the mark purely for reducing casualties, you might as well take mark of tzeentch for 6+ ward, its give pretty much the same protective advantage except it works on EVERYTHING instead of just shooting and a single WS

He obviously knows that.

Killboss
01-09-2009, 10:34
Go for MoK & GW's for greater hitting power - lets face it with no static res, the more wounds you cause the better. Give them shields (10pts), and if you have the points Additional Hand Weapons (for only 10pts also)

You can actually give them that many weapon upgrades?:confused:

eyescrossed
01-09-2009, 10:46
You can actually give them that many weapon upgrades?:confused:

Well IIRC the Army Book doesn't give a limit.

Jushak
01-09-2009, 11:01
You don't get the bonus for YOUR attacks, they only lose WS for when they attack you

Re-read what I wrote. The change is not a big loss.


If you want the mark purely for reducing casualties, you might as well take mark of tzeentch for 6+ ward, its give pretty much the same protective advantage except it works on EVERYTHING instead of just shooting and a single WS

Single WS? Guess again. It works againts WS of 6 and 3 now. Only difference is that it no longer works againts WS of 5. Big whoop. This way it works againts a lot of things, including most characters and some lords, as well as some elite units.

The lower end WS on the other hand works againts pretty much all normal infantry, not to mention almost everything in the undead books.

Yes, Mark of Tzeentch has the benefit of working againts everything, but that's only 6+. While I do have nice tendency to roll 6's, I'd still not rely on it that much. When facing opponents outside WS4-5 (elite units in most armies) or 7+ (rare outside lords) you'll benefit from MoN more.

Main attraction though for me is simply that I follow Nurgle.

nzdarkelf
01-09-2009, 11:27
You can actually give them that many weapon upgrades?:confused:

Yes you can. You have a choice from shields, additional hand wpn, great weapon, and halberds. Ironically you are not limited in how many of these you take, BUT you must take at least one of them. So if you are into MSU's of 10 figs then each regiment is only going to cost you an extra 30 points to tool them up with a full combo of options, (not including the halberd).

eyescrossed
01-09-2009, 12:22
I can think of a situation when MoN is useless: when you face other WoC.

zerachiel
03-09-2009, 02:25
I can think of a situation when MoN is useless: when you face other WoC.

It does protect you from Plague Squall from the Nurgle Lore (which admittedly is probably not the spell from the Lore of Nurgle that your opponent will be casting at you constantly...).

Also works on most of the Steeds that Chaos characters ride, most notably the Dragon (because they're really common...). The Chosen are also affected, as well as most of the peanut gallery of the book (Ogres, Trolls, Spawn, Shaggoth...), so just pray your opponent's going for a Troll King list.

...Yeah, I'd rather go for another mark against WoC, though if your Nurgle sorcerer got the 4th spell, you'd be laughing.

Irbian
16-04-2010, 19:45
MMm hope this is not a exercise of threadomancy but the search page answered with this so...

Im new on this, so I would like a little of help with theoryhammer. Im playing with some ideas but I have some rules holes I hope someone can help me with them.

6 wide x 2 rank or 4 wide x 3 rank?
one hand weapon + shield with and without mark of khorne?
two hand weapons with and without mark of korne?
why is so cool the halberd and why is usually played along a shield? isnt it a 2 hands weapon?

thanks in advance

mattjgilbert
16-04-2010, 19:48
With a unit only 4 wide, you will not get any rank bonus. 5 wide minimum for that.

Zaustus
17-04-2010, 00:26
I've been liking my unit of 12 (6x2) with MoS, halberds, shields, musician and standard. I've been giving them the War Banner too, but that's just me. They get a good amount of attacks, and can either be rock hard with T4 AS2+ or pretty killy with WS5 S5 A2 I5.

Granted I usually keep the Banner of the Gods near them to make sure they don't break. They usually end up losing combat at first since they don't have much in the way of rank bonus, but then I charge stuff into the enemy's flanks and it's all over.

Agnar the Howler
17-04-2010, 00:50
why is so cool the halberd and why is usually played along a shield? isnt it a 2 hands weapon?

Halberds are great all-rounder weapons for when you don't know who or what you're up against. If you know you're up against large beasties or tough units, take GWs and their extra strength, if you're up against hordes of smaller creatures, take AHWs and use the additional attacks and your initiative to kill them off, if you don't know what you're up against then halberds are the best compromise, offering a reasonable strength boost but also striking at initiative value. Plus you don't lose or gain any defence, as with all three weapons you'll only recieve a 4+ AS if they're used.

As for shields, you can choose which weapons you want to use at the beginning of a combat (not combat phase, the very beginning of a combat), and since all models come with HWs as standard, you can opt to use that in conjunction with the shield if you need to go on the defensive. So yes, you can't use a shield at the same time you're using a halberd, but you can use it if you opt to use your hand weapons instead.

Havock
17-04-2010, 00:55
I have had some success with 13 warrios with MoS, full command and the rapturous std.
They don't really kill lots of things, but they annoyed the crap out of my opponents during a tourney last week.

Combocharged by dragon princes and a stardragon.
Breaktest: [6][6]
My opponentthinks he has this one, I break him the news.
Instant frown. Best part is that curse of the leper was already in play on the dragon :')

Null_Sheen
17-04-2010, 06:16
If equipping with Halberds and shields against what type of opponents do use which option against?
Obviously you cant use both in the same combat.

Eta
17-04-2010, 10:13
Re-read what I wrote. The change is not a big loss.

Single WS? Guess again. It works againts WS of 6 and 3 now. Only difference is that it no longer works againts WS of 5. Big whoop. This way it works againts a lot of things, including most characters and some lords, as well as some elite units.


Erm, it is a pretty big blow not to hit WS3 troops on 3's anymore. And your heroes not hitting most infantry on 3's.

Greetings
Eta

vinny t
17-04-2010, 13:39
When I played WoC, I used 3 units of 11 warriors, each with different marks and different wizards in them, with halberds and shields and f/c. I also used a random chosen block of 10 of tzeentch with the 5+ ward against shooting banner. The strength of that list lay in the fact that I could afford to lose a block or 2 of warriors, and in return they would do a lot of damage.

Agnar the Howler
17-04-2010, 15:12
If equipping with Halberds and shields against what type of opponents do use which option against?
Obviously you cant use both in the same combat.

Well obviously use halberds for tougher enemies that you can risk taking hits back from should you fluff a few few attacks, and use hw/shield for the times where you need the extra defence more than you need the extra strength.

Remember that Warriors are initiative 5, which means that they're launching 10 strength 5 hits when using halberds ranked 5 across. With their high weapon skill, they're going to be hitting a good few enemies on 3s, and then wounding the majoirty on 2s/3s, the enemy will take damage. If you factor in a khorne mark there too, then it's extra damage from a massive 15 S5 attacks from a front rank of 5 models.

Hw/Shield is good for the times when you know that even with S5, you'll have a hard time downing your opponent, and it's best to have more survivability and try to beat it with combat res.

Null_Sheen
17-04-2010, 22:03
Was kind of looking for a more definitve answer because from my workings its only worth it against (halberds) a dragon. And a dragon is not going to leave anything left to make it worth it anyway

Zaustus
17-04-2010, 22:15
Okay, example time. Against, say, Empire Swordsmen, a 6-wide unit of unmarked Chaos Warriors kill the following:
Halberds: 5.556
Sword & board: 3.556

Now the Swordsmen get no attacks back against the Halberd warriors, and their attacks against the HW&Sh Warriors are few and unlikely to wound. So what you're left with is the Halberd Warriors did enough wounds to win despite static CR. The HW&Sh warriors did not.

The halberds will usually be a better call against T3 infantry, and enemies that aren't so hitty on their own. When taking a cavalry charge though, or fighting other more killy stuff, HW&Sh is the way to go.

Taureus
18-04-2010, 00:02
Okay, example time. Against, say, Empire Swordsmen, a 6-wide unit of unmarked Chaos Warriors kill the following:
Halberds: 5.556
Sword & board: 3.556

Now the Swordsmen get no attacks back against the Halberd warriors, and their attacks against the HW&Sh Warriors are few and unlikely to wound. So what you're left with is the Halberd Warriors did enough wounds to win despite static CR. The HW&Sh warriors did not.

The halberds will usually be a better call against T3 infantry, and enemies that aren't so hitty on their own. When taking a cavalry charge though, or fighting other more killy stuff, HW&Sh is the way to go.

That would also depend on the size of the opposing unit.

Against a unit sitting on +5 CR before blows are struck, the Halberds will come out on top.

Against a small unit without any static CR of its own, S5 may prove sufficient. As well as safeguard your own unit from losing any models.