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Killboss
15-08-2009, 15:58
Hello, im starting WoC and can't decide what to kit my chaos lord out with. At the moment, im struck between 2 choices (any other suggestions would be welcome if you just want to say what your lord has,) the 2 choices are:

Lord, Mark of Nurgle (i love this thing, its great for stopping those bothersome mounts from hitting you,) daemonic mount (he's meant to go with Knights, so the Palenquin is too slow, and at risk of my most common opponent seing this,) Chaos Runeshield and Chaos Rune Sword. I fielded this combo recently and i found it to be quite... killy.

The other:

Lord, Mark of Khorne, juggernaut, Chaos Rune Shield, Chaos Rune Sword.
My main problem with this one is that i feel attatched to Mark of Nurgle, i mean the plus one attack is nice, but if Mark of Nurgle is the difference between me hitting of 3's instead of 4's then i'd rather MoN. The other issue with this, im absolutley paranoid that he'll get baited and then cut down. (not sure how this'll happen... infact the more i think about it, it'll be easy to prevent but hey, paranoia isn't reasonable.)

So, can i have a "that one's better" and what i should be doing with it/ways to improve it?

Thanks.

BattleofLund
15-08-2009, 16:19
Lord, Mark of Nurgle (i love this thing, its great for stopping those bothersome mounts from hitting you,) daemonic mount (he's meant to go with Knights, so the Palenquin is too slow, and at risk of my most common opponent seing this,) Chaos Runeshield and Chaos Rune Sword.

If it's pure efficiency you're after, I wouldn't take a Daemonic Mount. It is expensive, gives less protection (no barding), and it's Fear is largely redundant if the Lord joins Knights. Of these, I deem the extra pip of armour save the most important.



Lord, Mark of Khorne, juggernaut, Chaos Rune Shield, Chaos Rune Sword.
My main problem with this one is that i feel attatched to Mark of Nurgle, i mean the plus one attack is nice, but if Mark of Nurgle is the difference between me hitting of 3's instead of 4's then i'd rather MoN. The other issue with this, im absolutley paranoid that he'll get baited and then cut down. (not sure how this'll happen... infact the more i think about it, it'll be easy to prevent but hey, paranoia isn't reasonable.)

Being cut down is one risk with a Frenzied, mounted character. Being baited and drawn into a non-profitable position is another, and much easier.

On the whole, I prefer the Nurgle Lord on Daemonic Mount over the Khorne Lord on Juggernaut. But I would take a regular barded Chaos Steed over the Mount, unless the character is to keep pace with M8 troops (i.e. Horsemen).

The Runeshield: I guess you encounter magical weapons with some regularity. Mostly I run into the cheaper ones (Might, Battle etc), and therefore I am better served by an Enchanted shield (that has an effect against say, for example, a Stegadon too).

Jushak
15-08-2009, 16:25
I find Chaos Lords overpriced and would much rather take sorcerer lord personally but that is obviously just my opinion :p

Mark of Nurgle sadly only works when the opponent attacks you according to the Errata, so it won't make any difference for your own attacks.

Daemonic mount on the other hand: I'm not 100% sure but doesn't that use the 50x50 base? If it does, I'd personally vouch for Chaos Steed instead as adding the Chaos Lord to unit of knights makes them practically 7 models wide, which means that it is less likely that all of them get to hit, and more importantly the unit is harder to manouver on the table. Putting any models in back row on the other hand makes them more vulnerable to bolt throwers and the like.

Out of the setups themselves I'm a Nurgle player myself, and as you can buy Banner of Rage for the knights you can get the CLord to benefit from the Frenzy too, making MoKhorne moot for him.

Edit: Filled up full name for Banner of Rage instead of acronym.

Azethel
15-08-2009, 16:25
Id like to point you to this thread for a few builds and thoughts on lords

http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?p=3756819#post3756819

The jugg mounted one could be replaced with an exalted with flail and be only slightly less effective for a great deal of points less.

Also be aware that unless you are running an all mounted force (and even then) your general will probably be too far away from the majority of your troops to give them that extra Ld that you pay so many points for. Id also be scared not taking some kind of ward save on my general.

When I run a lord i use a tzeentch marked one on disc (so maybe not pertinent to you since you seem to like nurgle/khorne). There are several builds I use but generally if I use a magic weapon it is a cheap one (like sword of might). I also use either collar of khorne, talisman of protection (5+ ward with tzeentch) or golden eye. Remaining magic allowance is either not used or I take book of secrets and spell familiar for two magic missiles. He tends to play more of a backline sweeping role getting involved when needed and moving to where his extra Ld is needed.

Also, afaik, the nurgle mark has been FAQ'ed and the -1 WS only occurs when models are rolling to hit you and not when you are rolling to hit them. Id be tempted to just mark the knights nurgle and add a banner of rage if you really want those extra attacks. Thus when your unmarked lord is in the unit he is frenzied along with all the knights and still benefits from the -1 to hit the unit.

edit - Just too slow :-P I would also like to add that if you use a daemonic mount and your knights have BoR there are times where you lord will be forced to charge (16" range) whilst your knights may possibly be out of range (14" range). Hmmm...that is an odd one though. I wonder, if a frenzied lord is forced to charge out of the unit with BoR, does he still have frenzy (thus +1 attack) when he leaves the unit in the ensuing combat phase...id be leaning towards no.

edit x2 - Heh, I was beaten to it by mere seconds as well Isabel...also, there is not much that has WS 8 in the game so nearly all the time you are hitting on 3's anyway.

Isabel
15-08-2009, 16:27
My main problem with this one is that i feel attatched to Mark of Nurgle, i mean the plus one attack is nice, but if Mark of Nurgle is the difference between me hitting of 3's instead of 4's then i'd rather MoN.


The MoN only applies to hits against the character with the MoN, not his attacks againsts opponents.


Edit: Sorry, Azethel beat me to it by a few seconds lol.

Killboss
15-08-2009, 17:25
Lol, 3 in a row correction. Eh.. i still find its good for Ranged protection.
@ Battleoflund, wll, we're all new, so i suppose that clouds our judgement when choosing magic weapons (the army specific ones are just so much shineyer and cooler looking.) Also, its was what you said that hit the preverbial nail in the head for what i am paranoid about.

The reason the Nurgle Lord is on a daemonic mount is because it seems way killyer,and it causes fear, i also wanted him on something fast.

But right now, what i think i'll do (i'll have test games... if i can) which will be the ultmate decider, but the Khorne one looks pretty good (provided i have some warhounds or something to block LoS.) Thoughts? Again.

Thanks for the fast replys.

BattleofLund
15-08-2009, 22:23
@ Battleoflund, wll, we're all new, so i suppose that clouds our judgement when choosing magic weapons (the army specific ones are just so much shineyer and cooler looking.)

I find 'mighty fighters with legendary weapons' perfectly valid as a gaming environment. And in that setting the Chaos Runeshield is good. It's just that there are so many ways of killing in WFB; against a Flickering Fire spell f ex, a Runeshield is a hideously expensive 'mundane shield (+1 Sv)'.

As most here say, a Chaos Lord is very expensive. The Jugger setup you outlined will buy you two Exalted Heroes with kit, and the increased Ld of the Lord is less of use if he Frenzies off somewhere. That said, if I hadn't tried a Chaos Lord I would definitely want to! Personal preference is what matters here. Go for it.

Drachen_Jager
16-08-2009, 03:22
If you just want an Uber killy Lord who's a lot of fun try Khorne on a Jugger with the Enchanted Shield and Daemonsword. Absolutely kicks ass 95% of the time, slices his own throat the other 5%. It's fun and adds some serious punch for taking out big nasties.

Ximinez
16-08-2009, 10:38
A Chaos Lord configuration that was once suggested to me on another forum, and I've had a good time with is:

Chaos Lord, Mark of Tzeentch, Disc of Tzeentch, Aethersword, Collar of Khorne, And Enchanted Shield. Add Roar or Stream of Corruption to taste.

Being able to mulch a unit of otherwise hard to kill cavalry or somesuch a turn with such a fast, killy Lord is quite a good time. Plus, not many people expect choppy Lords from Tzeentch, so the surprise factor may work in your favor.

Killboss
16-08-2009, 12:33
Wow, so many good suggestions, i'll have to start planning games (ironically im going to a 40K party-thing this weekend.) Unfortunatly though, my common gaming buddy, (you know him as eyescrossed) is gone for a week or so, and after this next weekend our assignemnts and stuff will be due etc etc... Why must real life be so bothersome?

Jushak
16-08-2009, 23:08
To add some more suggestions for you to test:

If you ever have the problem that your opponents want to kill your Chaos Lord, you might want to throw them a curve ball in form of this Chaos Lord. Let's call him...

Lord Porcupine
- MoTzeentch
- Armour of Damnation
- Father of Swords
- Talisman of Protection
- Chaos Steed OR Disc of Tzeentch

Finish up with your choice of Acid Ichor or Words of Agony. With forced re-rolls on hits your opponents will be hitting themselves left and right and if something eventually gets through they'll have to get through his armour and 5+ ward.


Another interesting thing to do would be a hidden terror-bomb lord:

Lord Filthbringer

MoTzeentch
- MoTzeentch
- Filth Mace
- Diabolic Splendour or Words of Agony
- Enchanted Shield
- Talisman of Protection
- Disc of Tzeentch

Edit: Fixed the list.

The thing here is to ride directly into anything you think the lord can handle on his own, get a kill, and start his reign of terror. Words of Agony can be used to help trigger his Terror (as it is used at start of close combat) or to get potentially massive overkill if you happen to get a duel.

The upside here is that you're "only" paying 70 points for terror, instead of 235-395 (as Diabolic Splendour really is kind of mandatory for terror-bombing) while getting Poisoned Attacks as a "freebie". You also get the added benefit that your opponent really can't see it coming during deployment.

sulla
17-08-2009, 00:22
I'd go Mok, juggernaut, shield and flail (choose which is most appropriate for the combat), Crown of everlasting conquest and Crimson armour. Quite a tank which is good since he has to challenge and the only things that are gonna accept are either things he doesn't need extra hittyness on or things that can soak it up and dish it back.

Sarah S
17-08-2009, 00:41
The Chaos characters only have to issue challenges if you have no other model in the unit to issue the challenge.

It's a great reason to include some champions. Just issue the challenge with the champ, and let the Lord go to town on the rank and file.

QuasiEvil
17-08-2009, 02:54
One option to consider for some fun is this build I've used a couple times.

Mount him on a Disk or Steed of Slaanesh with these items

-Skinhidden Plate
-Glaive of Putrefaction


All you have to do is slip a wound past your opponent and then they literally can't wound your T6 Lord. Great for big beasties.

Could also run Favor of the Gods and a Warshrine and hope to roll up the +1T gift for a cheaper option.

Killboss
17-08-2009, 06:48
The Chaos characters only have to issue challenges if you have no other model in the unit to issue the challenge.

It's a great reason to include some champions. Just issue the challenge with the champ, and let the Lord go to town on the rank and file.

What if the opponent has 2 challengeable models in the unit? Oh and that's how i killed one of my friend's Hippogryph riding Bretonian lord. He charged my Chaos Lord (the Nurgle one) and issued a challenged (thinking he got to chose who accepted,) my Knight champion stepped forward go slaughtered wildly by the S6 wielding Bretonian lord (he had a Lance.) Next turn, i issue a challenge while he doesn't have the charge bonus and killed him as easily as he kiled the Knight champion. That's why i love that Nurgle one... i can really be a b!tch with him, seeing as he won't go running screaming into the closest models.

Wow... there are so many combos now... i think i like the Terror bomb one (its just my kind of sneaky.)

EDIT: What do you guys think about the necrotic phalactery? I seems good for only 10 points seeing as it could easily save the guys life.

Sarah S
17-08-2009, 07:06
What if the opponent has 2 challengeable models in the unit?

Who cares? Only 1 challenge can occur in a single combat.

Isabel
17-08-2009, 08:02
One option to consider for some fun is this build I've used a couple times.

Mount him on a Disk or Steed of Slaanesh with these items

-Skinhidden Plate
-Glaive of Putrefaction


All you have to do is slip a wound past your opponent and then they literally can't wound your T6 Lord. Great for big beasties.

Could also run Favor of the Gods and a Warshrine and hope to roll up the +1T gift for a cheaper option.



As long as he survives that combat round, since the glaives effect doesnt take hold untill the end of that combat round. Otherwise I'd love that item.

Eta
17-08-2009, 18:10
Another interesting thing to do would be a hidden terror-bomb lord:

Lord Filthbringer

MoTzeentch
- MoTzeentch
- Filth Mace
- Diabolic Splendour
- Words of Agony
- Enchanted Shield
- Talisman of Protection
- Disc of Tzeentch
- Shield

The thing here is to ride directly into anything you think the lord can handle on his own, get a kill, and start his reign of terror. Words of Agony can be used to help trigger his Terror (as it is used at start of close combat) or to get potentially massive overkill if you happen to get a duel.

The upside here is that you're "only" paying 70 points for terror, instead of 235-395 (as Diabolic Splendour really is kind of mandatory for terror-bombing) while getting Poisoned Attacks as a "freebie". You also get the added benefit that your opponent really can't see it coming during deployment.

That build is illegal as a Chaos Lord may not have gifts for more than 50 points. Your listed gifts cost 75 points altogether.

Greetings
Eta

Drachen_Jager
17-08-2009, 20:40
What's the point in Diabolic Splendour on a Lord anyhow? Unless I remember incorrectly it's -1 Ld to opponents taking fear/terror tests caused by the model. It seems like a waste of points if it's not on a terror causing model.

Jushak
17-08-2009, 20:41
That build is illegal as a Chaos Lord may not have gifts for more than 50 points. Your listed gifts cost 75 points altogether.

Greetings
Eta

Ugh, good point - choice between Agony and Splendour then for easier-to-get or better Terror. That's what happens when you add stuff as after thought.

Killboss
17-08-2009, 21:47
Who cares? Only 1 challenge can occur in a single combat.

Oh yes, forgot about that :o


What's the point in Diabolic Splendour on a Lord anyhow? Unless I remember incorrectly it's -1 Ld to opponents taking fear/terror tests caused by the model. It seems like a waste of points if it's not on a terror causing model.

He does cause terror- after the first unsaved wound he inflicts. Also, he could get it on EoTG...

Jushak
18-08-2009, 00:21
What's the point in Diabolic Splendour on a Lord anyhow? Unless I remember incorrectly it's -1 Ld to opponents taking fear/terror tests caused by the model. It seems like a waste of points if it's not on a terror causing model.

Tsk tsk, read the whole thing. The whole point of the lord is that it's hidden terror bomb, just waiting for the death of single model. That and he costs less than dragon you'd have to mount him on otherwise - manticore I'd never really use myself.

In truth though, I just wanted to find an use for Filth Mace. In theory it's kind of nice and fluffy item for Nurgle hero, but I can't see any real way to make it worth the points outside the CL I posted, or variation there of.

Killboss
19-08-2009, 07:55
Then you can run him into the middle of an enemy army, as watch the units fly. Also, if this helps at all, the only armies i'll be facing (so far) are WoC (probably be playing most games against them,) VC, Bretts and Dwarfs.

Drachen_Jager
19-08-2009, 17:11
Yeah yeah Jushak, I forgot the ability of a rarely-if-ever used item, sue me... Even in the config you gave it's hardly very useful, many of the armies which give WoC the toughest fights are mostly immune to psychology anyhow... I'd rather have a killy weapon (but then again I play Khorne, not Nurgle).