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Deon
16-08-2009, 00:23
hello, i was thinking,
is it possible for space marines that have turned to chaos,
to some day come to there senses and leave chaos
and come back to the empirium,
i do think that they will be executed on the spot,
but is it possible for them to turn there back on chaos
just a thought :)

EVIL INC
16-08-2009, 00:24
I would vote for no. I feel the imperium (including thier own chapter-mates) would kill them on the spot. At most, they would be "questioned" before being killed.

Craftworld
16-08-2009, 00:28
hello, i was thinking,
is it possible for space marines that have turned to chaos,
to some day come to there senses and leave chaos
and come back to the empirium,
i do think that they will be executed on the spot,
but is it possible for them to turn there back on chaos
just a thought :)

Betrayal, regardless of what motivation you had always rubs people the wrong way. Even more;so when the people you betray are a group of religious zealots.

With how brutal the Imperium is about taint and chaos as a whole, I highly doubt anyone could ever return from it.

DuskRaider
16-08-2009, 00:30
You could look to Soul Drinkers, but then again they're pretty much Excommunicate Traitoris. Which means the only way they're stepping foot onto Imperial soil is in a box containing their ashes.

Mannimarco
16-08-2009, 00:34
no chance in hell, the imperium isnt big on forgiving people who have turned traitor, renegades can find forgivness in their death but there can be no forgiving a traitor (im paraphrasing an existing quote there)

in fact, the imperium has wiped out several groups suspecting them of corruption when they were in fact loyal like the relictors and that chapter who burst into flames but were unharmed by them, they saw the fire as a gift from the emperor to crush his foes, inquisition saw it as chaos corruption and sent in the GKs

saying that there were several chapters who fought alongside the astral claws (see red corsairs) and were only sent on pentient crusades and lost recruiting rights on their chapter home world (lamentors etc)

Vandelan
16-08-2009, 00:36
A Space Marine cannot return from Chaos. The Chaos 'dex even says so.

Charistoph
16-08-2009, 00:47
For a good read on how it is viewed, read up on the Dark Angels Codex and how they treat their secret.

And they're the NICE ones.

JHZ
16-08-2009, 00:56
Like Marilyn Manson said: I don't like the Chaos, but the Chaos likes me.

Yes, I would think so, depending naturally on how far the corruption had gone. In Daemon World a World Bearer sorcerer leaves the legion, sheds his armour (fused to his body) and even does battle with his old comrades. But there's a possibility he was a Sensei, since he owned a Dark Age of Technology ship and in another story talked about the Men of Iron like he had seen them with his own eyes.

And in Pawns of Chaos the Chaos people of the planet (served Tzeentch like forever) were quite down to earth and would have even allowed the Imperials to live among them and worship the Emperor as they saw fit, but naturally the pious servants of the God-Emperor didn't see it like that. The protagonist (a Chaos worshiper) even gave Tzeentch the finger (figuretavily) and messed of the gods plans out of mercy towards the Imperial, though I got the impression he didn't really join with the Imperials either, just chose his own path to walk on.

Anyhoo, it is possible to abandon Chaos (what are the gods gonna do, rage in the Warp?), but it takes some determination, as you're basically coming over yourself. It's a little, but not entire like a drug addiction, since there's no secret ingredience, it's all you. The gods only lure you into acting out your emotions. So shaking it off is like... a hippie born and raised on some hippie community just stopping hugging trees and becoming a chain smoking, burger eating lawyer. Or something.

And this is just you yourself. Try doing that when there's 999 other such people around you, keeping your mind fixed on the task at hand. It's like an Imperial citizen suddenly saying "Hey, wouldn't it be cool if we'd like just be friends and all?" Even if you have doubts, you shut the Hell up and keep hacking and/or raping until the feeling goes away. No need to rock the boat as it's already on dry land and on fire.

The longer your a pawn to Chaos, the harder it is to shake it. The gods don't care for the rabble, the mindless masses. They put their blessings on the people that get things done. Chaos Marines do get things done, so naturally they will get freaky real soon, but even then it depends. I don't think Honsou in Storm of Iron was that corrupt, and he has served quite a long time. Also the lone EC Marine in Farseer (name escapes me) was a little funny in the head, but cruising around space in your phallos shaped destroyer (and plotting to destroy Kharn - as in "BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD!!!" Kharn - for screwing him over) probably doesn't gain you as much favor as daily raping and pillaging of a thousand worlds in the name of Slaanesh.


Now then, as for going back to the Imperium... I think the 11th commandment was "Thou Shalt not maketh me laugh." In general the Imperium has the policy of "Shoot, shoot again and never, ever ask questions, for only the unfaithful question!" So of course they won't take in a Heretic like a prodigal son, but there's always the old "forged identity" and such. Just look at the Blood Ravens. They're (rumoured) to be Thousand Sons who did not run with their Primarch, but faced the music and magically "forgot" their past so that only the top brass remember it.

Then there's the whole "I did, in college, but I never inhaled" thing, where someone might border on heresy, but cover it all up and act like nothing happened. Like if a radical Inquisitor uses daemonhosts or something once or twice, for the greater good of the Imperium, but covers up his tracks and never does it again. Or use it, but make it so that it actually prooves to be a good thing and get absolution from your sins that way.

Ah, I'm rambling. You get the idea, I think/hope.

12345_7
16-08-2009, 01:01
Is the story of the Lamenters a return from chaos or would it be viewed differently?

Mannimarco
16-08-2009, 01:05
the lamentors strictly speaking didnt turn to chaos, they allied up with the astral claws when they turned

the lamentors had fought alongside the astral claws and thought it was impossible that they could possibly be traitors, thats why they fought alongside them: they were trying to help their allies

SharpSilver
16-08-2009, 01:40
Well, I doubt that they would have the chance to even 'attempt' returning to their chapter. If they turned to chaos they would undoubtably be killed on sight or tortured and/or made to repent, like what the Dark Angels do to their fallen Comrades.

Surgency
16-08-2009, 02:08
You could look to Soul Drinkers, but then again they're pretty much Excommunicate Traitoris. Which means the only way they're stepping foot onto Imperial soil is in a box containing their ashes.


The ashes are tainted, so they're not allowed onto Imperial soil either... They're jetisoned into deep space, a black hole, or the sun :p

Doppleskanger
16-08-2009, 02:54
Well that's it in Soul Drinkers exactly. they hadn't even really turned and they got excommunicatis, or however that's spelled.Seriously they didn't really do anything wrong, just got on the wrong end of some inquisition infighting and that was them, done for. So no, absolutely not. Never. Ever. And look at what happened to the guys who didn't become Plague marines. They flew half way across the galaxy to dob in the rest of the chapter, and what happened to them? Well no one knows but they weren't seen again that's for sure. And they were the guys who didn't turn. Nope, it's a one way ride!

DartzIRL
16-08-2009, 02:57
Nope.

A heretic may seek forgiveness, and in the fires of death be redeemed. But for a traitor there can be no forgiveness, no respite, only hatred and damnation to an eternity in darkness, forever divorced from the light of the Emperor.

Ertle
16-08-2009, 03:31
The only known cure for Chaos taint is a plasma shot to the back of the head to be taken as needed as long as symptoms occur. Side effects include death, burning smell, cranial damage, death, and more death. Please consult the Grey Knights if your symptoms persist.

Joewrightgm
16-08-2009, 03:38
Its noted in the Dark Angel codex that some Fallen Angels take up on small backwaters, and rule the settlements in order to atone for their betrayal. This, of course, means nothing to the Dark Angels and see nothing more than a name to strike off the list.

To the Imperium, no. You'd have to find a way to integrate back into society, but for a space marine the best they could do would be to walk away from chaos and sell their sword to the highest bidder.

Ddraiglais
16-08-2009, 05:20
In Eye of Terror there's a DA from the Great Crusade that floats through space for 10K years and wakes up in the EoT. He's told that the Imperium is no more and the Emperor is dead. He chooses to follow Khorne IIRC. In the end he breaks up a Khorne/Tzeentch alliance and then flees to the Imperium. He is eventually killed, but he did willingly turn from Chaos.

BrotherMoses
16-08-2009, 05:31
Nvm, Dartz beat me to it.

shabbadoo
16-08-2009, 05:43
They could turn their back on Chaos, but would forever be "renegades". Basially, play the force as Chaos Marines but without any Chaos specific goodies like units of daemons, daemon weapons, daemonically possessed vehicles, psychic powers that overtly channel Chaos(like Gift of Chaos), etc.

BrotherMoses
16-08-2009, 05:54
go go shabbadoo, thats a great idea. I guess it would be like the Soul Drinkers. I only read one of their books though so I guess they could have fallen or something.

MF3000
16-08-2009, 05:59
JHZ gave the best response lol. Sure they can turn back to the light of the Emperor. Anything is possible in the 40k universe. It's also a question of faith, I think Marines can turn to the 'good' side. But the point (made clear by everyone) is that the Imperium ... really isn't that nice. They may out of compassion (like the Dark Angels - they're compassionate folk aren't they?) take the repentance and execute him. What about rogue marines? What if they turn from Chaos, and knowing that they cannot go back to the Imperium, they become rogues and sell-swords for whomever could pay them the money or give them a glorious death? (ala Dwarf Slayer syndrome). The galaxy is pretty huge... the Imperium may be the largest society to run into, but I'm sure a rogue marine can survive without being detected for too long.

I mean, he must be really devout to turn from Chaos and head straight for the closest church of the Emperor and 'fess his sins. I'm sure the less devout (i.e. sensible ones) will just run off into space and do what they can on their own before dying from numerous gribbly hands and guns pointed at his direction.

sj

Ddraiglais
16-08-2009, 05:59
You'd also have to limit armor, aircraft, and heavy weapons. Without forgeworlds and hellforges, it'd be difficult to maintain heavier weaponry.

JHZ
16-08-2009, 06:32
I believe the rulebook states that while the area the Imperium covers is vast, it's not all controlled, or even explored. There can be hundreds of lightyears between inhabited Imperial systems. There's even alien empires "within" the Imperial space.

So rogue Space Marines really don't have that much trouble fading into the background and finding themselves something to do.

Uriel Ventris from Dead Sky, Black Sun was an exiled Ultramarine, so surely there's others as well. Didn't Ventris even gather a small band of rogue Marines to him in the novel? Haven't read it, but that's what I've read.


You'd also have to limit armor, aircraft, and heavy weapons. Without forgeworlds and hellforges, it'd be difficult to maintain heavier weaponry.
I doubt individual Marines have much need for all that (then again, in the Farseer there's that lone Marine with his own destroyer, crewed by random pirates and soldiers of fortune). As for a whole group, being outside of the Imperial control also means that they can restock on what ever they can get their hands. Shuriken Cannons, Kroot hunting rifles, EMP grenades, choppas... Why use a Predator, when you can ride in style in a Leman Russ or in a Hammerhead?

And you think a forge world of the Dark Mechanicus really cares who they sell to? Chaos does barter with many factions. One of the Chaos escorts in BFG has alien weapons and targeting systems, and the old Palanquin of Nurgle model had a shuriken catapult armed Marine (http://zachary.org/games/gw/planquin.jpg) sitting on it.

MF3000
16-08-2009, 08:17
I love the idea of these 'rogue' humans though, whether they're marines or 'secessionists' ... it just sounds awesome to have these periphereal societies that are essentially non-Imperial but not infected by the Greater Good or the Chaos Gods. I guess extreme Imperialists will say that they are 'lost' civilisations and unless they're saved by the light of the Emperor they should just DIE. lol. Crazy religious people.

I think you're right about the equipment and hardware issue. There are plenty of people who don't follow the laws of the Imperium, but are governed by the 'Imperial cult' so to speak - this works to the Marines' advantage. They can easily take up the disguise of Inquisitors or military commanders to outlying areas. The myth of their authority should be enough to requisition whatever they need...

Ahhh all this seems horribly off topic...

sj

TheShadowCow
16-08-2009, 11:38
Depends how far into Chaos you've sunk I imagine. After a certain point, you're going to be so tainted by the Warp that you're not even yourself anymore.

Even then, the Imperium is unlikely to welcome you back with open arms. Precedent suggests that they will examine you for themselves and make up their own mind if you're "clean". If you are, the best you can hope for is a nice long penitent crusade to the nearest "death is absolutely certain" warzone.

Doppleskanger
16-08-2009, 11:49
When the IG penal legion first came out it was mentioned that a life sentence would be given for crimes such as Tax Evasion, anything more serious leads to execution. When a witch hunter saves a witch, and genuinely accepts their repentance, the witch is then sentenced to either Archo Flagelation or to ride a penitent engine. The Imperium just doesn't do forgiveness, not even if you're really, really, really sorry!

JHZ
16-08-2009, 16:56
I think you're right about the equipment and hardware issue.
The old IG codex also mentions that during the Great Crusade, some Imperial Army regiments used alien equipment, or at least that's what some old holo-image of a regiment showed. Then there's things like digi-weapons and things like Eldar dreamstones, which in Farseer were said to be used even by Imperial Inquisitors and sanctioned psychers to protect their minds from the perils of the Warp.


When the IG penal legion first came out it was mentioned that a life sentence would be given for crimes such as Tax Evasion, anything more serious leads to execution. When a witch hunter saves a witch, and genuinely accepts their repentance, the witch is then sentenced to either Archo Flagelation or to ride a penitent engine. The Imperium just doesn't do forgiveness, not even if you're really, really, really sorry!
Schaeffer's last chancers include:
-Refusing a direct order.
-Killing three off-duty officers.
-Hacking into regiment's accounts.
-Breaking into a Colonel's personal drinks cabinet.
-Possibly killing 20 civilians.
-AWOL, possible link to the assassination of a Chief Arbitator.
-Stealing an Eldar ambassador's grav-vehicle.
-Murdering a Master Sergeant.
-Black Marketeering.
-See sub-file 84 beta, sections 103-196. In other words, probably anything between punching the Emperor to knocking up a farseer's daughter.
-Membership in a banned sect.

Those are a little different from "tax evasion".

I think it all has to do with how flashy the Imperium wants to make the case. It's all politics, after all. Like when the Soviet Union shot down that U2 spy plane and held a very public trial on the pilot for spying, then later exchanged him for a spy of their own, caugh in the United States. Naturally there wasn't much reporting on that transaction in the USSR. And the US was quick to show off the size of their might when the USSR backed off during the Cuban missile crisis, even if they had to give up some of their own missile bases.

Lets face it, majority of Ultramarines get away with awesome amounts of crap without any problems. Tigurius mind melds with the Hive Mind, they run their own empire, etc. I think even Calgar has more than a few skeletons in his closet, but because the codex author is so gay for him, he gets away it like the Mary Sue he is. And why does the Imperium allow this all to happen (apart from the reason I just said)? Because they need the Ultramarines. They hold the fort in the east and get things done, where as some obscure chapter/planet in some obscure region of space can easily be sacrificed as an exsample to the masses of the dangers of heresy.

EVIL INC
16-08-2009, 17:29
Rogue Marine speaking to the first Abbot he can get to after leaving the Eye of Terror- "Sir, I have spent the last 5,000 years fighting my brethren and wish to atone for my sins by re-dedicating myself to the Emporor may he in all his infinate wisdom and mercy accept me once more."

Abbot- "My son, why do you think you are worthy of such mercy?"

Marine- *slaps his side where his robes are moving on thier own* "Sir, my newfound piety knows no boundes and I am anxious to once more serve mankind. I hope that the Emperor will see and understand this".

Abbot- *looks over the shoulder of the marine at what is now rising out of the robes on the marine's back* "My son, something tells me that now all of you is quite so devout as you claim to be."

Marine- "Why is that sir"

Abbot, "well, for starters, the hand on your tentacle is flipping me the bird".

Marine- Bulls bolt pistal out and casually shoots the end of the tentacle off which grows a little mouth and screams in pain* "Dammit to hell. I hate it when that happens. Now, where were we...?"

Abbot *thump*

Marine- "Sir, sir"' *slaps the abbots cheek to try to wake him from his feint* "Another fine mess youve gotten us into". Started to wring tentacle's neck* "Didnt I tell you top let ME do the talking?"

w3rm
16-08-2009, 20:25
Well if you quit Nurgle the the protection from his diseases would stop right? And you would die...

Lord Damocles
16-08-2009, 20:27
hello, i was thinking,
is it possible for space marines that have turned to chaos,
to some day come to there senses and leave chaos
and come back to the empirium,
i do think that they will be executed on the spot,
but is it possible for them to turn there back on chaos
just a thought :)
Yes.

-goes off to get usual two quotes-

EDIT:

Castus pulled himself up to his full height. With the force of sheer will he unclenched his altered hands. The fingers reluctantly peeled away, the crystal splitting, the morningstar falling from his grip and spiralling down into the corrupt sea.

He spread his fingers, and with what little strength he had left plunged them into his breastplate. The metal split along the lines which Aescarion's axe had scored, laying open the diseased torso which had been enclosed since he had set foot upon Saafir.

The dead organs had been hollowed out and the rotting loops of viscera were gone. Now in the distended ribcage there hung a slim metal cylinder, harmless in appearance - until the deamon prince's psychic sight percieved the gothic letters inscribed upon it:
IN EXTERMINATUS EXTREMIS.
DOMINA, SALVE NOS.

Sergeant Castus of the Ultramarines looked Parmenenides the Vile in the eye, and tasted the joyful fear he saw there.
'Damnatio tuum', he wispered, and the white light of purity blasted him clean for all eternity.


Vorchiss, Sorceror of Tzeentch, has been the pawn of Chaos for ten thousand years. With each year he has felt his humanity slip away litle by little. While navigating one of the great ships of Abaddon's fleet he feels the death cry of a mortal world echoing through the warp, another world slaughtered by the Despoiler. In that moment he decides he can no longer walk the path of damnation and looks upon the light of the Emperor, in the hope of redemption. He is rewarded with the strength to steer the vessel he is navigating into a raging Warp maelstrom thereby ensuring that at least one host of monsters will not reach the Imperial world of Agripinaa.

-IronWarrior-
16-08-2009, 21:26
A Space Marine cannot return from Chaos. The Chaos 'dex even says so.

Correct

Their thoughts of the Imperium and the Emperor are nothing more than pure hatred.

Some of them are more or less selfish, self centered and careless more than they are in a position of total hatred. This is the category the Iron Warriors and Night Bringers fall into. They considered the battle of Terra to be a victory and are pretty much kicking back and doing their own thing now. They respect the Chaos Gods and will help out when Abaddon needs it, but otherwise aren't big on anything but themselves.

Armies like the World Eaters, Death Guard and Emperor's Children were seduced by each individual god and are more or less slaves to their will... more than free thinking soldiers. Thousand Sons are cursed and just being fueled by Ahriman and his sorcerers greed. He'd like to destroy the Imperium just to get into the Black Library.

Condottiere
16-08-2009, 21:55
There seem to be a number of obstacles involved.

First you'd have to free yourself from the Chaos mindset; then, you have to escape; you should be able to shed your armour; you still should look around 95% human; avoid Inquisitors; find a remote planet, a nice girl and settle down.

JHZ
16-08-2009, 22:30
First you'd have to free yourself from the Chaos mindset
In other words, just stop being a jerk.


then, you have to escape
Shoot some people and/or run. Either they don't care, or they have bigger fish to fry. After all, if you can put some distance between yourself and them, you're literally a space needle in a galaxy stack.


you should be able to shed your armour
Well, you rarely see Marines outside of their armour anyway, so might not be that important. Just avoid communal showers, nudist colonies, etc.


you still should look around 95% human
Apart from being an 8' monster, right? Again, just keep your armour on, and you'll be fine.


avoid Inquisitors
I think they have bigger things to do than to go peeking under every Marine's helmet. Besides, it's not like the Marines bow to the Inquisition in any case. The Inquisitor may request their co-operation, but if he comes pointing fingers without proper backing (in the forms of an armoured batallion and full air, land and sea support), might be that he will have a tragic Warp travel accident and was lost on his way to meet with the Marines.

"Inquisitor? No, haven't seen any Inquisitor around here. You sure he was coming here?"
*swiftly plants his boot on top of a small blood stain on the floor, left there by mistake*


find a remote planet
That's like falling out of a boat and not hitting water. There's just so many settled planets in the galaxy, and only so many of them are at least some kind of a hub. Even the IG codex says that the Imperium likes to keep some planets as feral as possible, since it grows strong and willing warriors.


a nice girl
Who doesn't mind a walking 8 foot plus armoured panzer that never shows himself (because his armour doesn't come off and/or he's hideous beneath it) and has no sexual interest in her.


and settle down.
But watch out for the rust, or hope Dorothy has an oil can at the ready.