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View Full Version : Dedicated Heavy Weapon platoons no more?



mcflurry
16-08-2009, 15:29
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EVIL INC
16-08-2009, 15:38
yep, you now buy them as support for the platoons. Of course, you still get to set those squads up wherever you wish.

Bloodknight
16-08-2009, 15:39
Nope, but you can buy up to 15 heavy weapon teams in 5 heavy weapon squads per platoon of normal infantry.

Lord Humongous
16-08-2009, 15:42
You'd likely want the command squad anyhow, for issuing orders. The one that makes heavy weapons twin linked vs MC's and vehicles seems good in this case.

Signal
16-08-2009, 16:00
Can you no longer have dedicated platoons of just heavy weapons? I've just leafed through the Guard codex and it says 1 Platoon Command Squad, 2-5 Infantry, 0-3 Heavy Weapons, 0-2 Special Weapons.

As I write this, I do so with my own IG Codex literally right in front of me. According to the top of page 96, it's 0-5 Heavy Weapons squads. So if I'm recalling correctly, we can now cram more heavy weapon squads into a single slot than we could before. Also, while we may have lost the ability to field dedicated heavy weapon platoons, the ones we can field now take up a troops slot instead of a Heavy Weapons slot.

Xelloss
16-08-2009, 16:16
They are also 2W models that can be insta-killed by S6 weapons, and are very difficult to hide behind your lines without giving your opponent cover save.
It's really a shame the rumour about units from the same platoon that don't give cover save to the enemy wasn't true...

grissom2006
16-08-2009, 16:19
As I write this, I do so with my own IG Codex literally right in front of me. According to the top of page 96, it's 0-5 Heavy Weapons squads. So if I'm recalling correctly, we can now cram more heavy weapon squads into a single slot than we could before. Also, while we may have lost the ability to field dedicated heavy weapon platoons, the ones we can field now take up a troops slot instead of a Heavy Weapons slot.

Indeed we can and my IG army rejoices in it :D

It's Guard field enough men and he has no chance to draw line of site.

MasterDecoy
16-08-2009, 16:28
They are also 2W models that can be insta-killed by S6 weapons, and are very difficult to hide behind your lines without giving your opponent cover save.
It's really a shame the rumour about units from the same platoon that don't give cover save to the enemy wasn't true...

you say that like S6 weaponry is in great abundence.

Xelloss
16-08-2009, 16:40
you say that like S6 weaponry is in great abundence.

Assault canon
Multilaser
Autocanon
etc...

Ekranoplan
17-08-2009, 00:02
you say that like S6 weaponry is in great abundence.

Pretty much all weapons other then small arms are S6 or higher. There are plenty of exceptions of course (heavy bolters...), but for the most part every army has their share of S6 weaponry all over the place.

Bunnahabhain
17-08-2009, 00:15
you say that like S6 weaponry is in great abundence.

Plasma
Shukien cannons, scatter lasers
Assult cannon
Multilaser
Autocannon
Most Large Nid weapons
Loads of blast/large blast weapons- grotzookas to manticores
Inferno cannons


Everyone can put out large volumes of S6+ fire, often at long ranges, on high mobility platforms, ignoring LOS and or cover, or some nasty combination of these...

MasterDecoy
17-08-2009, 01:04
yes, but I dont useually (keyword there) see more than 3 or 4 different squads armed with any combinations of those weapons, in most (another key word) peoples armys, except ironicly, gaurd armys.

Occulto
17-08-2009, 08:05
They are also 2W models that can be insta-killed by S6 weapons, and are very difficult to hide behind your lines without giving your opponent cover save.
It's really a shame the rumour about units from the same platoon that don't give cover save to the enemy wasn't true...

*gasp*

You mean it's possible to kill them? :eek:

How unfair.

Maarten K
17-08-2009, 08:46
*gasp*

You mean it's possible to kill them? :eek:

How unfair.

He means they have the survivability of a paper towel, and thus never worth it except for mortar squads.

Xelloss
17-08-2009, 08:57
He means they have the survivability of a paper towel, and thus never worth it except for mortar squads.

Not exactly. If you spam them on the board, the opponent will not have enough units to bring them down.
How strange of GW : make a unit useful only if you take a bunch-load of its expensive miniatures... I don't say they can't be played, just I'm not satisfied with how they try to balance the IG - we were many among my 40K-playing friends wanting to start IG with the new codex, and the price rise of an already expensive faction and rules such as this one dissuaded us to do so... And left us bitter.

Vaktathi
17-08-2009, 09:16
you say that like S6 weaponry is in great abundence.

My own IG army at 2000pts field 9 Mutlilasers, 6 autocannons, 3 battlecannons, 14 grenade launchers, 2 metlaguns, and 9 lascannons. That's 43 S6+ weapons.

And that's not even getting into the 15 heavy bolters, 3 heavy flamers, 2 normal flamers, and a buttload of lasguns.



My Eldar at 2000pts have 5 EML's, 16 Meltaguns, and 18 outflanking scatterlasers. 39 S6+ weapons.

For Tau, I've got 10 plasma rifles, 10 missile pods, and 3 railguns, for a total of 23 S6+ weapons.





S6 weaponry is not uncommon by any means.

ehlijen
17-08-2009, 10:02
Don't forget that they get cheaper and became scoring as well. A slight hit in survivability wasn't uncalled for.

While I am indeed annoyed at the 2 models to 2 wounds change (technically a fair bunch of my models are now illegal), this was the easier solution to fixing that model to rules mismatch that's been plaguing guard players since the Eye of terror.

Max1mum
17-08-2009, 10:22
the kiss principle stops anything more complicated then this ;-),

(keep it simple stupid,)

never forget the mandetory 2 inf squads you also need ( and want ) ;-)

Vaktathi
17-08-2009, 11:35
Don't forget that they get cheaper and became scoring as well. A slight hit in survivability wasn't uncalled for. They aren't *that* much cheaper (what, 5pts per squad cheaper for most weapons?), and their usefulness as scoring units is...dubious at best. They aren't doing anything other than holding your objective in capture and control (and are worthless for objective grabbing in Seize Ground) and won't even be a speedbump against anything that tries to take it from them.

These really weren't worth trading being 2 seperate models for.



While I am indeed annoyed at the 2 models to 2 wounds change (technically a fair bunch of my models are now illegal), this was the easier solution to fixing that model to rules mismatch that's been plaguing guard players since the Eye of terror.They could have just stopped giving them illegal bases (for the time) and had them operate the way Eldar Guardian HW's do.

MegaPope
17-08-2009, 12:15
Before the 'standard' basing situation for Guard HW teams was adopted, my solution to the problem of recording wounds on the two-men-to-one-base teams was to place a die on or next to the base to denote a dead loader. For my RPG and Mortar crews, which consisted of two seperate models (because aesthetically the RPG looks ridiculously tiny on a huge 60mm base and the Mortar isn't much better), I just removed the loader model.

After the 'standard' basing situation for Guard HW teams was adopted, my solution to the problem of recording wounds on the two-men-to-one-base teams was to place a die on or next to the base to denote a dead loader. But now, my RPG and Mortar crews are 'techically' illegal.

Could someone explain to me exactly why this changed? Other than the fact that GW's bean counters may have been irked by the imaginitive player squeezing their actual money's worth out of what was then an 18 box with six guys in it. You already need a shedload of figures to play a decent Guard army, and the 5ed wound allocation rules and lack of need to determine partial hits from blast weapons seem to make the change even more irrelevant.

Mind you, I never rebased my Chaos Termies either. I don't play in tournies, and no one else seemed to mind, so I figured what the hell?

Shrapnel
17-08-2009, 12:22
You don't even need to put two guardsmen on the base anymore - it's just one guy who can take a little more punishment than anyone else in his squad. (and to get this extra resilience he had to eat his loader)

Vaktathi
17-08-2009, 12:27
Mind you, I never rebased my Chaos Termies either. I don't play in tournies, and no one else seemed to mind, so I figured what the hell?

You needn't rebase your old termi's. They are using the bases they came with. Anything else would technically need opponents permission.

TheJoyDivision
18-08-2009, 07:46
You needn't rebase your old termi's. They are using the bases they came with. Anything else would technically need opponents permission.

Gamesworkshop really needs to publish something in direct relation to the Imperial Guard Heavy Weapon teams. Many people are under the impression that it is illegal to have Imperial Guard weapon teams (such as the Steel Legion Missile Launcher and every "collectors" pewter Heavy Weapons team) on anything but a 60mm. Frankly I have yet to see where in the Guard codex or Rulebook that states this. Though the rulebook does say that you base the models on which they came supplied with. I understand it is a single model with 2 wounds now, but if someone dare told me I need to re-base a matte finished model simply because of the design of 'new' guard I would probably smack them. I can't see why a tournament organizer or any real mature gamer would have any problem with you simply using the miniatures the way they came.

All my friends (some had to have a nice talking to) all agree that it is perfectly alright to field the weapon teams as they are, as long as I keep the "loader" and "gunner" in base contact with each other.

One last thing...why couldn't they just make them an artillery unit?

silentsmoke
18-08-2009, 09:51
I don't see what the problem is as the game that I played the nids spent so much trying to remove my company command. Remove the head and the body dies - slowly.


Place your models in good places!!!