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Ximinez
16-08-2009, 20:49
Greetings all! As I stated in my greetings thread, it seems the Fantasy community really has their heads on straight here, and I was hoping to get some of that expertise to help me in my first tournament list. I only have a few weeks to prepare, so unfortunately my model choices are restricted to what I have on hand. Also, it will have comp, so if you feel the list is unfriendly, please tell me so that I can alter it.

Warriors of Tzeentch 2250

Lvl 4 Sorcerer Lord, Mark and Disc of Tzeentch, Golden Eye, Spell Familiar
=350

Lvl 2 Sorcerer, Mark of Tzeentch, Infernal Puppet
=175

Lvl 2 Sorcerer, Mark of Tzeentch, Power Familiar and Dispel Scroll
=190

CORE:
14 Warriors w/ Shields, Mark of Tzeentch, Full Command
=274

14 Warriors w/ Shields, Mark of Tzeentch, Full Command and Banner of Wrath
=319

5 Marauder Horsemen w/ Spears, Throwing Spears, Light Armor and a Musician
=86

2x 5 Hounds
=30x2=60

SPECIAL:
12 Chosen w/ Shields, Halberds, Mark of Tzeentch, Full Command, Book of Secrets
=335

5 Knights, Mark of Tzeentch, Musician
=230

5 Knights, Mark of Tzeentch, Musician
=230

TOTAL: 2249

Things I do not have: More than one disc riding model, any monstrous unit, chariots, dragons, warshrines, spawn, marauders on foot with anything other than shields and hand weapons.

Ximinez
18-08-2009, 09:06
So there isn't really anything that needs improvement? I'm certain I'm not nearly that good at list building. Perhaps any good Tzeentch combos that I have overlooked?

Althwen
18-08-2009, 11:01
While I dont have any real critique on how your army is structured, I can foresee one major issue you'll have: Deployment.

How are you ever gonna fit 3 infantry blocks and 2 units of knights into a deplyment zone and not have them stepping on each other's toes?

I usually only field 1 chaos warrior unit and 2 knights and some dragon ogres or so, and even then I find myself deploying units behind each other in case of a wood just ahead of my deplyment zone.

Or am I the only one with these problems?

I'm currently a fan of hellcannons and the nervousness they induce in my opponent. I'd give up either the chosen or one of the warrior units for one of those. Their misfire-miscast result shouldnt bother you too much in conjunction with your puppet, and it might even cause some enemy sorcerer heads to explode during your shooting phase.

Thats just my opinion, all in all I think its a well-rounded army that can take and dish out quite a punch.

Nukem
18-08-2009, 19:21
Greetings all! As I stated in my greetings thread, it seems the Fantasy community really has their heads on straight here, and I was hoping to get some of that expertise to help me in my first tournament list. I only have a few weeks to prepare, so unfortunately my model choices are restricted to what I have on hand. Also, it will have comp, so if you feel the list is unfriendly, please tell me so that I can alter it.

Warriors of Tzeentch 2250

Lvl 4 Sorcerer Lord, Mark and Disc of Tzeentch, Golden Eye, Spell Familiar
=350

Lvl 2 Sorcerer, Mark of Tzeentch, Infernal Puppet
=175

Lvl 2 Sorcerer, Mark of Tzeentch, Power Familiar and Dispel Scroll
=190

CORE:
14 Warriors w/ Shields, Mark of Tzeentch, Full Command
=274

14 Warriors w/ Shields, Mark of Tzeentch, Full Command and Banner of Wrath
=319

5 Marauder Horsemen w/ Spears, Throwing Spears, Light Armor and a Musician
=86

2x 5 Hounds
=30x2=60

SPECIAL:
12 Chosen w/ Shields, Halberds, Mark of Tzeentch, Full Command, Book of Secrets
=335

5 Knights, Mark of Tzeentch, Musician
=230

5 Knights, Mark of Tzeentch, Musician
=230

TOTAL: 2249

Things I do not have: More than one disc riding model, any monstrous unit, chariots, dragons, warshrines, spawn, marauders on foot with anything other than shields and hand weapons.

I find your army a very well rounded army which actually has a theme to it, shocking to me at least in my gaming group lol. I did notice you lack high str weapons, if I haven't completely lost my mind I believe the highest you have is 5, while that not being too bad it could pose a problem when it comes to somethings such as a Steam Tank or some type of monster. I have a feeling that most of those things can be dealt with by your casters, but its something to keep in mind. A chariot or a unit of dragon ogres as Althwen suggested would be a nice unit and solve the cc str problem. With your knight units there really is no reason to give them the wardsave banner, along with the MoT a 4+ws from shooting is such a nice little perk I would highly recommend buying it.

I also agree with Althwen that having so many warrior units can really harm you in the deployment phase, I know the exact problem he mentioned and it can really be a pain. Setting up warriors behind your knights sounded like a good idea at the time, but being that much further back can make them wait another turn to get into combat and warriors sitting there picking flowers is not their desiried goal lol. As for a replacement, I would go with some Mounted Marauders as it seems you have a fairly quick list. Save one of the warrior units for a bunker and place your lvl2s inside, or use the points saved from dropping the two warrior units to by one of them a disk. With the points saved you should be able to purchase another banner for your other knight unit, which really could bump their killing power, the frenzy banner is a good option or in your case a magic heavy army think about getting the wrath banner. Its a nice little magic missile if it gets off, which it might seeing as your opponent might be too worried about your casters to really care too much about it.

Thats just my 2 cents. Looking forward to hearing your reply.

Cheers,
Colin

dapredator66
18-08-2009, 19:50
The balance is good. I still feel you need a little more guys in your infantry unit (but only 2 units) and a little bit more magic.

Here's my suggestions for you:
- I would drop the chosen and use 2 units of 17 Warriors (big blocks of chosen are not worth it unless you take a Warshrine + Favours of the Gods).
- The second Warrior unit should receive the War Banner.
- Switch the Dispel Scroll on your second Lvl2 with Book of Secrets
- Add Rod of Torment, Enchanted Shield and a Chaos Steed to your lord (so he can join any unit).
- Use 2x6 knights and add a banner in each unit (maybe even Blasted Standard)
- Add a second unit of horsemen (similar options)

Ximinez
19-08-2009, 05:18
Thank you fellows very much for all the useful advice! After it has been pointed out, I agree that all the blocks will step on each other feet, and specifically the Chosen are now lackluster since I've cut my Warshrines (I didn't have the means to model and paint one before the tourney), so they will be the ones that go.

Warriors of Tzeentch Mk.II 2250

Lvl 4 Sorcerer Lord, Mark and Disc of Tzeentch, Rod of Torment, Golden Eye, Spell Familiar and Enchanted Shield
=410

Lvl 2 Sorcerer, Mark of Tzeentch, Infernal Puppet and Chaos Steed
=191

Lvl 2 Sorcerer, Mark of Tzeentch, Power Familiar, Dispel Scroll and Chaos Steed
=206

CORE:
16 Warriors w/ Shields, Mark of Tzeentch, Full Command and Warbanner
=331

16 Warriors w/ Shields, Mark of Tzeentch, Full Command and Banner of Wrath
=351

5 Marauder Horsemen w/ Spears, Throwing Spears and a Musician
=81

5 Hounds 30
5 Hounds 30

SPECIAL:
6 Knights, Mark of Tzeentch, Musician, Standard Bearer and Blasted Standard
=330

6 Knights, Mark of Tzeentch, Musician and Standard Bearer
=290

TOTAL: 2250

I think I like this build better, and I also have less models to paint (and deploy) now. I mounted the Sorcerers to both take and receive more damage since they have to be in the front rank anyway, plus the option to charge out of the block may come in handy at some point. The knights with the Blasted Standard will make an excellent unit to hide behind while I make my way up the field vs. gunlines (I hope, anyway).

A few specific questions:
-Is the firepower increase of the Book of Secrets worth more than the utility of the Dispel Scroll? Even with all the Sorcerers, I'll only have 6 dispel dice total. I feel that a crippling spell may still slip through vs. another magic heavy army, a situation in which the scroll would be quite valuable.

-Would a Collar of Khorne be better than the Golden Eye due to the the magic resistance? The disc rider will rarely be in LOS to anything that can harm him because most Tzeentch spells do not require it, so magic would be the worst thing that can harm him regularly. Therefore, the magic resistance would come into play more often.

After this tourney, however, I would like to rip out a unit of knights and try out all these cool options people have mentioned (such as the Dragon Ogres, or Hellcannon). I just can't take the time right now to buy/model/paint/test any brand new stuff.

Thanks again for all the help fellows, please keep it coming!