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View Full Version : Ogre kingdom, how well do they play?



Boss Zagstruk
16-08-2009, 22:38
Ive always liked the ogre kingdom range and im getting back into the hobby again. Havent been anywhere near fantasy in over a year with the exception of buying the most recent rule books. I was just wondering how ogres fair in the current state of the game and was hoping i could get advice on what works and what doesnt. Im not bothered if there not the most competative but would like to know they fair. Im after a project thats fun , lots of convertions and great painting oppertunities.

I have a rough idea of the list id like to run:
skrag the slaughter, butchers.
Few units of ironguts, bulls with additional hand weapons(?).
Gorgers and possibly slave giants or maneaters.

Thanks

stainawarjar
16-08-2009, 22:54
I've played them sporadically since they came out and I have to say... they never ever perform for me.

guillaume
17-08-2009, 00:37
First of all, welcome to the big maw.

Second, for all your tactics and other ogre related info, visit: http://ogrestronghold.com/main/index.php

This is where I really learned the art of playing Ogre.

I am not going to go into too many details of the good and the bad of ogres.

But first of all, the Skrag list is not one ogre players play, because for that many points, Skrag is not actually that good.

When it comes to ogres, you want to be doing some damage in combat, Skrag is not particularly brilliant at it.

Two: so gorgers become specials, big deal, you should be using the leadbelchers anyways as special. Small units of 2 move quickly around the board, are a real annoyance to your opponent and have a huge fun factor.

Gorger as rare, so, you can still take 2. That's plenty.

A very decent setup with Ogres is multiple small units: basically, you overload your opponent with lots of small units. Fielding a "GW-like" ogre army with a bit of everything is unfortunately not as competitive in a sense that you may get the c**p kicked out of you a lot of the times, which is not great for you or your opponent. With a MSU army, you become far more tactical (a lot of enjoyment for you) and you become far trickier for your opponent who has to think outside of the box (fun for him too, even though he won't say it).

The way you do this is as follow:
1 tyrant
2-3 butchers for those all so important defensive and offensive buff for your troops
3-4 units of 3-4 ironguts
1 unit of ogre bull (because you have to, but frankly, ironguts are just better)
2-3 units of leadbelchers
2 gorgers
1 unit of trappers (because they will win you the game one day)

All units come without standard and champion, but all have musician: the idea is to be able to redirect charges with your bulls and your leadelchers (they will need the musician to rally) and allow more of your units to charge.

With Ogres, if you don't hurt the unit badly in the first round, you are more likely to loose the war of attrition. You have no rank, you will always be outnumbered, and you dont have a standard. So, the unit that you are charging start with a +5 CR BEFORE the fight. You may think "if i take a standard, that makes it only +4" and you would be right, but do that 4 times, and you added an extra 80pts to your army. This is almost a new bull unit to your army, and that unit now has a lot of attack which can come in handy in flanking maneuvers

And that is the big point with Ogre. You have to be extremely maneuverable. They all move 6" that's further than any other infantry, therefore you MUST have the movement advantage. That means countercharging, fleeing, flanking...etc. Especially so as ogres have large base size, and can become clunky to move around. 4 ogres wide is as wide as you want to go, and those you want to stay in the middle and become your anchor. 3 wide units are those that are moving about, and 2 wide leabelchers units are your fast cavalry so to speak.

Optional, are the yhetees which are a bit tricky to play (they have no save and get killed by arrows), the maneaters, which are beautiful models, but very expensive for what they do and take away that 2nd gorger choice. Gnoblars, whilst they fill the "very cheap fodder" for the ogres, they will get in the way of a very important charge because of bickering. Always choose trappers as they are easier to move out of the way into a nearby forest.

No-nos: hunters, horribly expensive and actually not that useful, and take away a hero slot. Slavegiants, he really isnt that good, a weaker version of a giant.

If you play at a good store with good mates: Rhinox riders, 2 or 3, with bull rhinox option ... they are absolutely BRUTAL! you can run through entire armies with 3 of them and slightly above average rolls. But that will be 1/4 of your army in points.

Hope that helps, for far more answers to your questions, visit the Ogre stronghold

SuperArchMegalon
17-08-2009, 04:04
Hey there,

Long time Ogre player here. What I would say to you is that while the Ogres can certainly win games, it isn't as often as I'd like. You'll find that to pull off a win you'll have to do considerable work to outsmart and out-think your opponent. While most armies have a way of managing their mistakes (or even just the ability to ignore making mistakes), the Ogres suffer hugely for any mistake on the part of their player. Sometimes they just suffer because the odds are simply not in their favor from the get-go. With WS3, they're out-classed in melee combat by most of the newer armies, which given their massive size (and points cost!) should not be the case.

That said, they're a really fun army to collect and to play. Their range is one of the best in WHFB. And I'll have to disagree with the above poster, many people play Skrag because he brings the most competitive build to the Ogre Kingdoms, but whether or not it's exactly fun to spam all those PD is another issue.

As said, stay away from Hunters, Slavegiants, and I'd like to throw in the Scraplauncher (though some people may take issue here) and large units of Ogres, and you should be okay. Also, in 2000 points 2 units of 3 naked Bulls is all you'll need, they can't pull it in combat so they're your baiting fodder. Good luck!

Mercules
17-08-2009, 13:37
Hunters, Gnoblars, and Scraplaunchers are iffy things in the list but they do have there place.

The Hunter without his Sabretusks ends up being an expensive Bolt Thrower than can actually kill normal warmachine stalkers. With Sabretusks he becomes a flanking unit. The main problem with the Hunter is that he fails to do either role particularly well for his point cost. You are basically paying for both the melee and ranged options and you will rarely be able to utilize them both. If you are trying to get into melee where he can shine then you are not shooting since he is not move and shoot. If you stand back and shoot they can ignore you if they don't have large targets as he will rarely kill more than one model a turn on average. 9 point rank and file over 6 turns isn't even half his point cost.

Probably the best thing a Hunter brings to the table is another unit of Gnoblar Trappers and the bonuses he gives to them. Thus when I use a Hunter it is with 2 Sabretusks and 2 units of Trappers and he and his entourage are all alone on a flank tying up the enemy.

Scaplaunchers are good against Horde armies like O&G, Skaven, some Empire, and such, anything where you are going to have lots of ranked up units to be hit by the large template. Even then they have to stick next to the General for the leadership and you can't let enemy warmachines target them. Cannons destroy them. Luckily they are move and shoot which means you can peek out just a tiny bit and target units so you can keep them under cover.

Basically Ogre Kingdoms boil down to:

If you want a tournament competitive army or you feel the need to win all your games select a different army.

If you enjoy the other parts of the hobby and don't mind uphill struggles in battles play Ogres.

O&G'sRule
17-08-2009, 18:56
Theyre good against undead and heavily armoured armies, not so good against hordes and ultra elites

PARTYCHICORITA
18-08-2009, 06:45
I have a rough idea of the list id like to run:
skrag the slaughter, butchers.
Few units of ironguts, bulls with additional hand weapons(?).
Gorgers and possibly slave giants or maneaters.

Thanks

I strongly disagree with guillaume on his points of view on skrag. To me he's great and the option to take 8 gorgers is brutal. We are talking about T5 4W unbreakable monsters with KB coming in from any table edge, that alone is pretty nasty. Add the fact that skragg himself is not only a pretty decent combat character but also a lvl4 mage and you've got yourself a pretty decent list.

To me his gorger army is the closest the ogres get to competitive play on 7th edition.

Jind_Singh
18-08-2009, 08:10
one of the BEST looking models for army range in WFB
one of the CHEAPERST armies to collect - the battaltion box is best $ for value per points
one of the EASIEST and yet most diverse armies to convert.....

would you like ogres based on chaos background? Orcs & Goblins, Empire, pick a race and convert your ogres to become their mercenaries.
Dont want to be a merc?
No worries - become a tribe from the Mountains of Mourn - so much to do and pick from!

Oh - by the way, they even play ok. You wont be a week-in, week-out winner but so what? They play fun, each list can be different to the one before, and if you lose - hey big deal, we Ogre Kingdoms...and if we win we laugh and say HAH! I just beat you with Ogre Kingdoms!

So whats to lose? Oh, great to assemble and paint also....

SuperArchMegalon
18-08-2009, 10:10
I'd like to add... expect an update for the Ogre Kingdoms within the next two years! Maybe finally we'll become the combat beasts we were meant to be, instead of having to rely on an unjustifiably unique magic phase that is all too often shut down these days...

As noted, the Scraplauncher and Hunter both suffer from being basically two-in-one units. The Scraplauncher is a Stone Thrower piled atop a chariot, and as such doesn't perform each individual task well enough to justify the points cost if you lose it to a misfire or bad dice rolls (not to mention it's the only stone thrower in the game that pops to a S7 hit!), and the Hunter's bow is just so useless but I feel they added it into his points cost three-fold... The Slavegiant would be okay if he were a bit cheaper, you have to use him differently than a regular Giant, and I think they underestimated the worth of Stubborn on the regular Giant when they lowered his points cost.

Let's see, other musings... for special choices, I pretty much take 2x2 Leadbelchers every game since they're your best bet at taking out fast cavalry, flying units, and lone characters. I also really like Yhetees, but again... WS3...

Boss Zagstruk
18-08-2009, 12:57
Thanks for the advice everyone. The negitives that have been mentioned doesnt phase me as i want a modelling project just as much as an army. I think i will try to develop a skrag the slaughter list. Theme wise though i was thinking about voodoo. Skragg the voodoo chieftain, butchet his apprentices, gorges mindless slaves and same 4 gnoblars but use ghouls maybe?..