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LemonStain
17-08-2009, 14:18
What are most people out there using as the War Shrine? I don't see it as an available unit for purchase yet.

Thanks.

snottlebocket
17-08-2009, 14:54
There is no model for it. I'm a nurgle player so I use a converted corpsecart that has a cultist priest on top with an altar + sacrifice.

I've seen a very nice Slaanesh altar that was basically a toy sheep from a farm animal range that had one side sculpted to look mutated with the other side normal. Painted up as a solid gold statue and mounted on a nice looking cart.

Someone else made a very cool khorn war shrine that was basically a huge forgeworld Khorn icon painted brass and mounted in a pile of skulls on a chariot.

TheDarkDuke
17-08-2009, 15:36
Hmmm ive seen people use the VC corpse cart, the War Altar from empire (you could possibly use the steam tank but thats gonna cost you a lot more $$$$$) ive heard people talking of using the new lizardmen stegadon for one which i would assume looks some what like a miniature scaly version of the forgeworld warmammoth. You could even use a basic chariot and pimp it out a bit. Just try and be creative it probably won't be to hard to chaosify something into the warshrine.

Blaklabel
17-08-2009, 16:09
At my LGS we have 3 WoC players who made their own Warshrines.
The Tzeentch player just uses chariot as the models.
A Slaanesh player made a corpse cart into a stage, complete with stripper pole and dancing Daemonettes.
And a Khorne player has 8 guys carrying a huge palate with a Throne of Skulls on top and a Bloodletter sitting in it.

The Tzeentch one is chariot sized, the Slaanesh one is on a Chariot basse as well, but a little smaller. And the Khorne one is about 2 Hellcannons long, and 1 Hellcannon wide.

So you can make them any size, and use any models. Just make sure it looks cool!

Blaklabel
17-08-2009, 16:11
Douuuubblleee Pooosssst

larabic
17-08-2009, 16:22
So you can make them any size, and use any models. Just make sure it looks cool!

Partially True, i think it actually says it is a combination chariot/monster which implies that it needs to be on one of those bases. I wish they would really state what size bases things are supposed to be on because there are some discrepancies.

EvC
17-08-2009, 16:37
Almost all Warshrines I've seen have been made from Corpse Carts, which is funny considering you'd never really want to bother giving the Shrine the Mark of Nurgle. For me, I have some crone riding a giant skullshrine, pulled my youthful Marauders. It's very weird, but fitting.

Condottiere
17-08-2009, 16:48
Well, if they're really setting up a sister company to FW for Fantasy, then it seems likely the Warshrine will be made by them.

Griefbringer
17-08-2009, 17:33
Anything big and/or with wheels should do.

I guess you could even convert one out of a tomb king chariot, by replacing the passengers (you can use their bones for decoration if needed) with some sort of altar.

O&G'sRule
17-08-2009, 18:54
I'm using skrags couldron being pulled by a troll that has a dead horse in one hand for my monstrous horde army

Oberon
17-08-2009, 19:04
A miniature chaos gate levitating on a bit larger than normal disc of Tzeentch. Guess the mark I'm using? And yes, it is on a chariot base.

mrtn
17-08-2009, 22:20
The one time I've used one I used an old screaming bell.

Sarah S
17-08-2009, 23:34
Almost all Warshrines I've seen have been made from Corpse Carts, which is funny considering you'd never really want to bother giving the Shrine the Mark of Nurgle. For me, I have some crone riding a giant skullshrine, pulled my youthful Marauders. It's very weird, but fitting.

I would never want to bother giving anything the Mark of Nurgle... :o

snottlebocket
18-08-2009, 06:17
I would never want to bother giving anything the Mark of Nurgle... :o

Funny considering it's by far the best mark for most units.

Sarah S
18-08-2009, 08:49
What are you smoking?

It is the most expensive.
It doesn't help against magic.
It doesn't help against shooting that automatically hits.

It only helps when the enemy attacks, and only helps by lowering their WS, not their chance to hit.

For Marauders, it only helps to turn WS2 into WS1, or to turn WS5 into WS4. Against WS1, 3, 4, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10 it does absolutely nothing.

For Chaos Warriors it only helps to turn WS3 into WS2, or to turn WS 6 into WS5. Against WS 1, 2, 4, 5, 7, 8, 9, 10, it does absolutely nothing.

It is the damn dumbest Mark ever.

You do realize there has been an errata to the Mark that makes it absolutely pointless right? Because the one in the book was at least useful against a couple more WS because you could use it offensively.

I would say Slaanesh is by far the best Mark for most units.

Fenrir
18-08-2009, 09:31
And there goes the talk about warshrines, smothered by a spleen venting about marks.

I've got two warshrines - one is an armoured cart, with a big pile of heads and skulls being carried, spiked railings and a banner sticking out of the top. Pulled by two armoured warhorses. This is Khornate.

The second is a slightly converted Plague cart from the Mordheim Carnival of Chaos range. Marked for Nurgle, obviously.

SuperArchMegalon
18-08-2009, 10:01
And there goes the talk about warshrines, smothered by a spleen venting about marks.

Too true. I'd say the best mark for the Warshrine is whatever mark you can come up with the best sculpting ideas for. If I played WoC, I'd have a horse-drawn chariot-altar, with a Champion of Chaos model (axe forward) painted as a golden statue, surrounded behind by burning torches, with chains running between them. And a heap of skulls, of course.

EvC
18-08-2009, 17:12
I'd also be tempted to use the Khornate Daemon Prince as a Warshrine. Because he sure aint getting any action as a WoC Daemon Prince.

orlanth1000
18-08-2009, 21:30
Have a look at these guys for ideas, with what they did as a shrine.
http://the2blackdragons.com/ebay_minis/chaos/ungeteilt/schrein/shrine1_2.jpg

I started a thread about them yesterday, awsome ideas for conversions.

spetswalshe
18-08-2009, 21:41
I'd just like to point out that this thread has refilled my belief in WoC players. Sounds like there's some awesome Shrine models out there.

Seville
18-08-2009, 22:08
My shrine is on the first page of the link in my sig, in my WoC painting log.

Weemo
18-08-2009, 22:15
v cool warshrine :)

Joezombie
19-08-2009, 07:44
I'm using a converted Corpse Cart. I like to use mark of Tzeetnch. But it's a Deathknight army so does it count?

Scallat
19-08-2009, 18:44
What are you smoking?

It is the most expensive.
It doesn't help against magic.
It doesn't help against shooting that automatically hits.

It only helps when the enemy attacks, and only helps by lowering their WS, not their chance to hit.

For Marauders, it only helps to turn WS2 into WS1, or to turn WS5 into WS4. Against WS1, 3, 4, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10 it does absolutely nothing.

For Chaos Warriors it only helps to turn WS3 into WS2, or to turn WS 6 into WS5. Against WS 1, 2, 4, 5, 7, 8, 9, 10, it does absolutely nothing.

It is the damn dumbest Mark ever.

You do realize there has been an errata to the Mark that makes it absolutely pointless right? Because the one in the book was at least useful against a couple more WS because you could use it offensively.

I would say Slaanesh is by far the best Mark for most units.

We can at least all agree that the marks of khorne and tzeentch are quite bad. (Unless you happen to have a ward save from another source in the case of tzeentch).

And that the Magic item selection is bad (except the arcane items).

And that the daemonic gifts are so terrible that if the whole of human civilisation was dedicated to doing nothing but expressing thier terribleness for the rest of the history of the universe we still wouldn't have covered even 1% of thier sh**yness. (Except the Daemon Prince only ones - but who takes a DP?)

And that the Eye of the Gods rule is completely rubbish.

And that almost all the units are too expensive. (I'm looking at you chaos lord.)

And... UGH! Why are Warriors so terrible?

Weemo
19-08-2009, 19:28
We can at least all agree that the marks of khorne and tzeentch are quite bad. (Unless you happen to have a ward save from another source in the case of tzeentch).

And that the Magic item selection is bad (except the arcane items).

And that the daemonic gifts are so terrible that if the whole of human civilisation was dedicated to doing nothing but expressing thier terribleness for the rest of the history of the universe we still wouldn't have covered even 1% of thier sh**yness. (Except the Daemon Prince only ones - but who takes a DP?)

And that the Eye of the Gods rule is completely rubbish.

And that almost all the units are too expensive. (I'm looking at you chaos lord.)

And... UGH! Why are Warriors so terrible?

i agree, eye of the gods should be easier to roll for (maybe every time a char kills causes 5 unsaved wounds and units 10) magic items and gifts are very poor and units are either too expensive or naff (marauders have no tactical place in woc for me)

Drachen_Jager
19-08-2009, 21:54
I agree with Scallat in that WoC should have gone though another revision or two before going to print. It seems like the guy doing the book had really no idea about what WoC was all about when he started. But I don't think WoC is WEAK, it's just that if you played a mono list in 6th you get boned in 7th for wanting to continue in theme and it lacks a variety of competitive lists (especially Khorne which is now stripped of all magic defense).

Mono marked armies should receive SOME benefit!

Demonic gifts should be useful!

Monsters and foot troops should be a little cheaper/better so that there's an even mix of cavalry, infantry and mixed lists in competitive play.

Bring back the Exalted Daemon and/or make the Daemon Prince a reasonable value for points, it sucks not playing my best looking model because it's a fairly useless point sink.

There's probably a lot of other things to say, bottom line is the book is competitive it's just not an improvement over 6th edition.

Tae
19-08-2009, 23:03
We can at least all agree that the marks of khorne and tzeentch are quite bad. (Unless you happen to have a ward save from another source in the case of tzeentch).

Khorne definately has other uses (besides the obvious extra attack), against fear-causing enemies so long as you keep winning combat being the main one. Is it as useful as Slaanesh in such circumstances? Obviously not, but against VC/TK horde armies it could be useful.

Tzeentch just depends how lucky you are with your ward saves. If you roll like a greenskin animosity roll, then they're not going to be much help. However if you roll like a damned Bretonnia player then you'll pass disproportionate numbers of 6+ wards which makes the mark a bit more useful. Plus MoT gives your sorcerers access to Lore of Tzeentch which, imo, is the best one of the three.


And that the Magic item selection is bad (except the arcane items).

.. and the magic armour ... and the magic banners ...


And that the daemonic gifts are so terrible that if the whole of human civilisation was dedicated to doing nothing but expressing thier terribleness for the rest of the history of the universe we still wouldn't have covered even 1% of thier sh**yness. (Except the Daemon Prince only ones - but who takes a DP?)

I would agree most of the gifts aren't that amazing, however a few do have at least some utility which whilst not necessarily part of the metagame are none the far from 'terrible'.


And that the Eye of the Gods rule is completely rubbish.

It's not completely rubbish, but I can count the number of non-warshrine based rolls I've had on the fingers of one hand in over 30 games. A simple re-wording so that champions = characters for rolling purposes would make this a rule worth having. Currently it just serves to get your mages eaten by greater daemons.


And that almost all the units are too expensive. (I'm looking at you chaos lord.)

No disagreement there. I'd also look at Forsaken (along with their craptastic rules).


And... UGH! Why are Warriors so terrible?

I'm assuming you mean the book as a whole rather than the actual warriors (afterall, what's terrible about WS5, S/T4, I5 and A2 models for that price?

Personally I'm drawn between HoC and WoC. There are bits about each book I like and bits about each book I don't like. However I don't think it's anything like the doom and gloom some people represent it to be most of whom, and apologies for the generalisation, strike me as people who are just upset that GW has decided to remove their favourite toys from their old codex. Though there are definately things in WoC I despise (see sig.).

mrtn
19-08-2009, 23:59
Bring back the Exalted Daemon and/or make the Daemon Prince a reasonable value for points, it sucks not playing my best looking model because it's a fairly useless point sink.
I'm in love with Tendrils of Tzeentch. I've used it on a lvl 4 daemon prince in three games lately, and it's been very useful. The most powerful combo is probably Tzeentch with Flickering Fire and Gateway, but I've also used it with Shadow and Fire magic to good effect. Last game I got off Pit of Shades twice in two tries on four dice, one time using Tendrils to turn a miscast into Irresistible Force. :)
Use Tendrils in combination with Fury of the Blood God, and possibly Roar, and you've got a great little flying terror causer.

Sarah S
20-08-2009, 00:19
It's not completely rubbish, but I can count the number of non-warshrine based rolls I've had on the fingers of one hand in over 30 games. A simple re-wording so that champions = characters for rolling purposes would make this a rule worth having. Currently it just serves to get your mages eaten by greater daemons.

It also serves to let enemy Wizards run away from every character based attempt at mage hunting.

Issue Challenge
Decline
Wizard hides.

DAMN IT!

SuperArchMegalon
20-08-2009, 07:03
Can we not do this? The thread is about War Shrines, not problems with the WoC book.

EDIT:
It also serves to let enemy Wizards run away from every character based attempt at mage hunting.

Issue Challenge
Decline
Wizard hides.

DAMN IT!

You can send their champion to the back.

Cypher, the Emperor
20-08-2009, 08:36
When I've been fielding one lately I've been using a throne I built out of various heads. But now that the throne is all painted I need to send it off to its new owners (the Reaper Mini's guys) and build a new warshrine.

EvC
20-08-2009, 15:03
You can send their champion to the back.

If they have a unit champion, then their champion accepts the challenge instead, obviously.

Drachen_Jager
20-08-2009, 20:50
If they have a unit champion, then their champion accepts the challenge instead, obviously.

Yeah but WoC R&F can normally kill a Wizard, so no big deal...

Leogun_91
20-08-2009, 21:17
If they have a unit champion, then their champion accepts the challenge instead, obviously. Then you word of agoniese the poor wizard before the challenge part begins.....only works with lords but still....(I will use it the other way with a chaoslord....agonise the champion so that the enemies combat hero can fight my chaoslord).

Dexter099
20-08-2009, 22:00
Funny considering it's by far the best mark for most units.

Having fielded pure Nurgle before, I have to agree that this is no longer true, with the new book and errata.

Dexter099
20-08-2009, 22:06
We can at least all agree that the marks of khorne and tzeentch are quite bad. (Unless you happen to have a ward save from another source in the case of tzeentch).

Tzeentch is good. Especially for chosen.


And that the Magic item selection is bad (except the arcane items).

Wrong. The banners have gotten way better, the magic weapons are actually useful now, not to mention better priced. You obviously didn't play much of 6th. The Charms aren't as good, but there are still a few good defenses...[/QUOTE]



And that the daemonic gifts are so terrible that if the whole of human civilisation was dedicated to doing nothing but expressing thier terribleness for the rest of the history of the universe we still wouldn't have covered even 1% of thier sh**yness. (Except the Daemon Prince only ones - but who takes a DP?)

The daemonic gifts are actually useful...


And that the Eye of the Gods rule is completely rubbish.

It has its uses, just find them...


And that almost all the units are too expensive. (I'm looking at you chaos lord.)

The Chaos Lord may be a little overpriced, but he's still worth it.


And... UGH! Why are Warriors so terrible?

?? They got way better!!!!! Are you kidding me?

On topic, the war shrine giving unit champions access to the eotg table is incredibly useful. Not to mention that a Tzeentch one is very resilient. I think they're definitely worth it.

Drachen_Jager
20-08-2009, 23:57
Tzeentch is good. Especially for chosen.


Khorne is good too, especially on Knights. Frenzy is tricky to play well but once you get the knack for it I think it's one of the best marks available. It just takes a bit more thought in the movement phase (and lots of Warhounds).

OldMaster
21-08-2009, 01:48
Lolmarkdiscussion.
i'm becoming deadly tired of that. Another vote for Khorne though. i broke a Dwarf basket with Khorne Marauder Horsemen once.
Yeah, many people use the Corpse Cart for their Warshrine. But then, it's a nice base. Myself i have a heavily converted Corpse cart with a blind Khorne fanatic priest sitting on a pyramid of burning skulls... axing people the way.

Shadesfox
21-08-2009, 02:01
I have not made a war shrine yet, but what I really want to do with it is make a cart with a tree made out of meat. Go around yelling, "Meat for the meat tree!" The cart part shouldn't be hard, I'm just having trouble envisioning how to make a tree that looks like it has exposed muscle attached to it.

snottlebocket
21-08-2009, 08:30
I have not made a war shrine yet, but what I really want to do with it is make a cart with a tree made out of meat. Go around yelling, "Meat for the meat tree!" The cart part shouldn't be hard, I'm just having trouble envisioning how to make a tree that looks like it has exposed muscle attached to it.

Start with one of those plastic GW trees, they look pretty nice. Convert it to be vaguely humanoid with some arm branches and knot holes to look like a face.

A muscle is basically a flattened, lengthened egg shape with grooves carved into it and a small nub for the tendon attaching it to the bone or branch. Look at some anatomical pictures to see what the logical places for muscles are. Usually there's a few large muscles along every limb to push and pull at the joint in order to move the limb.

SuperArchMegalon
21-08-2009, 09:26
Go around yelling, "Meat for the meat tree!"

Oh yeah, count me first in line to play against the meat tree guy... :eyebrows:

EvC
21-08-2009, 13:26
Then you word of agoniese the poor wizard before the challenge part begins.....only works with lords but still....(I will use it the other way with a chaoslord....agonise the champion so that the enemies combat hero can fight my chaoslord).

Geez, so it's come to the point where a 40 point gidt is required just to give you a chance to kill a wizard, which won't give you an EotG roll... and yeah, you can use that gift to kill a champion instead, but you'll probably find most people will refuse the challenge with their hero anyway. But at least that frees you up to kill rank and file by the boatload at least :)

buried_alive
21-08-2009, 14:32
My wip warshrine is on a circular base its floating monolith, with a couple of hooks and chaos symbols engraved on the surface. Chaos knight maces used as anchors. Painted up the base with the classic chaos star finished with floating skulls at each point. Looks pretty impressive