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TWB
10-01-2006, 09:50
Are we liking the House weapons rules? Personally, I like the Idea but think the execution is a little shoddy, some of the options available are a little. . . shall we say . . .Random, it appears that some weapons seem to be available solely because of the availability of a minature armed with it, whilst some gangs are missing options that would logically be available (Personally, I think big, thick, muscle bound Goliaths should have Massive swords/axes available as standard, for example).

So, what do you think? Do you the rule? if so, do you use it as it stands or have you compiled your own lists?

Darkseer
10-01-2006, 10:17
I think it's stupid and gives the Van Saars an even bigger advantage than they already have.

Venomizer
10-01-2006, 10:47
I find the house weapon lists stupid to be honest, swords for example should be an easily obtainable weapon yet are virtually exclusive to Escher........:wtf:

Bubble Ghost
10-01-2006, 12:11
I don't even like the idea - the implementation is insult to injury. I've had my only ever completely-lost-control internet rants on this subject in fact, and it's a shame Portent's gone otherwise I'd have a great excuse to dredge them up again.:D

The reason I don't like the idea is simply that it runs counter to the theme of the Underhive, a theme that re-releasing the game was apparently meant to strengthen: i.e. that the Underhive is a realm of its own, not just a low-rent suburb of Hive City. By really driving home the differences between the gangs like this, it plays up the Houses far too much, making the gangers seem like football hooligans deliberately trading scuffles based on allegiance, rather than Underhivers together simply trying to survive and who choose to hang around with like-minded individuals.

But the reason this gets on my nerves as much as it does is that it's the only thing GW have ever done, rules-wise, that is completely and utterly inexplicable from any viewpoint whatsoever. Who does it benefit? It detracts from the imagery of the game, and the way it's been implemented has absolutely nothing to do with the character of the gangs. Its only effect is to force you to use weapons that match the newer line of figures, which seem to have been armed at random without any thought for the personality of the gang in question. And although you can bypass it, you have to sacrifice all your rare trade, which is one of the most entertaining parts of a campaign. Bafflingly, then, the only net effect is that it's an in-game punishment for converting your models. This is against GW's entire ethos, and is why it jars me so much.

Grimshawl
10-01-2006, 13:31
I have to agree with all the others the implementation of house weapons lists did nothing for Necromunda except create stupid restrictions that dont ballance the game or the gangs, but do punish most anyone who already had figures for the game.

Inquisitor Samos
10-01-2006, 13:36
Bubble Ghost nailed my chief objection to the House Weapons rule with the comment "it's an in-game punishment for converting your models." What a crap rule effect, Bah! :mad:

I also strongly object to it on the basis of my take on the background. I've always seen the Underhive as a fringes-of-civilisation, near-lawless area where just about anything goes on any given day, and gangs will use whatever equipment and weapons they can get their hands on, because that's what they could get.. The suggestion that a gang will be limited as to what weapons it can use based on its House seems to me to be the next thing to ludicrous. Saying that certain Houses favor certain weapons would be fine - even giving them an advantage when using favored weapons would be okay - but restricting weapons to a very specific set based on the House? No way. And, as earlier posters have said, some of the restrictions don't even make any sense, with logically-available or logically-favored weapons for certain gangs missing from their lists.

When my group plays Necromunda, we totally ignore this rule.

TWB
10-01-2006, 14:24
I see the different houses as Nations, so rather than just being like-minded, they are culturally familiar, the underhive would be dotted with small areas where almost everybody belongs to the same house.

I agree with you entirely on the implementation of the rule, Bubble Ghost, it's arbitary with some gangs getting equipment which they really don't have any claim to (stealthy Delaques and their Lascannon, for example or the Escher Heavy Plasma Gun*) and others missing out on what they should have (again the Massive sword/axe for Goliaths). Would you appreciate the House weapons rules if the lists were put together sensibly and actually made sense?

The theory behind having to choose between buying weapons not on your gang's list OR rare trade doesn't follow, these weapons are commonly available to people in the underhive but cultural precidents or fighting style predict that your house prefers certain things, it shouldn't be so hard to find items not on the list. Perhaps the gang should surrender 1 rare trade roll to buy non list items?

I'm probably not going to win any friends by saying this but the additional rules that have been developed since Necromunda's re-release seem to me to be quite poor, I would consider most of them to be homegrown rules rather than actual GW rules. Take the Spyrer special characters, for example, totally unnecessary and totally awfull.
Enforcer patrols, I think they should have been dropped completely, or at least held back untill all 6 houses and the established outlander gangs had been dealt with. In the lawless wilds of the underhive there are roving gangs of lawmen?:wtf:

*The Escher Heavy Plasmagun does not exist, the model (http://www.geocities.com/rob_jedi/Escher/E_HPG_Side.jpg) is in fact an Escher Heavy WITH a plasmagun, this mistake has irked me since day one and it now translates to the Escher weapons list.Mini Rant over.

Inquisitor Samos
10-01-2006, 14:40
I'm probably not going to win any friends by saying this but the additional rules that have been developed since Necromunda's re-release seem to me to be quite poor, I would consider most of them to be homegrown rules rather than actual GW rules. Well, you're certainly not upsetting me, TWB, as I agree with you! ;)

I'd definitely class most of the more recent Necromunda rules as more fitting for optional "house rules" use than as fully "ready-for-prime-time" rules. Certainly, in my own usual Necromunda crowd we don't use a majority of 'em as they've been presented.

Bubble Ghost
10-01-2006, 15:16
I agree with you entirely on the implementation of the rule, Bubble Ghost... Would you appreciate the House weapons rules if the lists were put together sensibly and actually made sense?

Well, no, as I said in the first part of my post. I'd just hate them less.:D

I don't think not liking Necromunda: Underhive is going to lose you too many friends, either. "Pointless" was about the nicest thing anyone could think to say about it. I'm sure newcomers liked it, and even weakened, Necromunda is a great game; but why bother? I'm having trouble seeing anything but cynical reasons for such a half-hearted, mistake-ridden, bafflingly designed release. It really is a long way below GW's usual standards.

Helicon_One
10-01-2006, 16:25
Was there anything in Necromunda 2nd Ed that was actually an improvement over the original rules? I'm struggling to think of anything. Standardising on the D6, I suppose, and even that wasn't any big deal as long as you had access to the 'funny shaped' dice types.

Tim

Bubble Ghost
10-01-2006, 16:48
Was there anything in Necromunda 2nd Ed that was actually an improvement over the original rules? I'm struggling to think of anything. Standardising on the D6, I suppose, and even that wasn't any big deal as long as you had access to the 'funny shaped' dice types.

Tim
It's more flexible, so you can safely use it to swat wasps. The old books were rubbish for that.

TWB
10-01-2006, 18:23
The old books were (are) a lot more resilient though, I spilled all sorts over them and they are still usable, the Necromunda: Underhive (aka Undermunda) stuck together after it was anointed with a single glass of OJ, the pages irrevocably bonded. It was nice to learn that after I'd shelled out for the reprint ( which was entirely irrelevant as I have source, rule and oulander books still in working order) that the whole thing was getting published on the site in the form of the living rule book.

Cherrystone
10-01-2006, 18:40
Each House has its own culture and so will favour one weapon over another and if YOU dont all you have to do is give up one rare item role (new 2006 rule) and choose any weapon you like. The house weapons list has been updated with the 2006 Rules Review.

Bubble Ghost
10-01-2006, 18:41
The old books were (are) a lot more resilient though, I spilled all sorts over them and they are still usable, the Necromunda: Underhive (aka Undermunda) stuck together after it was anointed with a single glass of OJ, the pages irrevocably bonded. It was nice to learn that after I'd shelled out for the reprint ( which was entirely irrelevant as I have source, rule and oulander books still in working order) that the whole thing was getting published on the site in the form of the living rule book.

Do you mean the old books - the hardcover one - or the old old books? Because my ones, the ones that came in a day-of-release copy of the boxed game, have fallen to bits. I haven't used them any more than any of my other GW books - significantly less than many of them in fact - and the pages fall out when you so much as sneeze. They're more like loose-leaf binders than books now.



Each House has its own culture and so will favour one weapon over another and if YOU dont all you have to do is give up one rare item role (new 2006 rule) and choose any weapon you like. The house weapons list has been updated with the 2006 Rules Review.

Good to see they've come to their senses a little. I just can't see how it got through in the first place. And illustrating a preference is all well and good, but you can still happily use these weapons, they're just rare for you - they take extra effort to find. Are there seperate arms dealers for each House or something?


Welcome to Waste Gulch
Population: 32
General Stores: 6
No shoes, no House, no service

I can see the game design logic of allowing you a trade-off to bend the rules a little, but at best this is superfluous, and at worst ruins the atmosphere by overplaying the importance of House allegiance, as I said earlier. It makes the Underhive look pathetic and insignificant - it's meant to be almost a seperate world, not the Houses slumming it to play Cowboys and Indians against each other. The idea of house-specific weapon charts, while on the surface quite a small addition, actually undermines the entire character of the game by providing a major obstacle to the believability of the setting. Considering that one of Necromunda's major strengths was its rich atmosphere, this seems a particularly unfortunate thing to have done.

EVIL INC
10-01-2006, 18:59
I have to agree that I do not like the house weapons rule. I think it IS done purely on what models are available. The weapons are just too easily made avaiable to restrict them to single houses and besides, by doing that, you are steriotyping each gang in the same manner a rascist does minorities. Just because a person belongs to one gang doesnt mean they HAVE to like the classic heavy weapon or weapon type of that gang. What is to say that they might not like or even prefer one from another gang? I say, ignore the house weapons and use what you want and buy them from a single "store" list.

TWB
10-01-2006, 19:01
Each House has its own culture and so will favour one weapon over another and if YOU dont all you have to do is give up one rare item role (new 2006 rule) and choose any weapon you like. The house weapons list has been updated with the 2006 Rules Review.

Ok I've had a look, each rare trade roll can be dumped in favour of buying a single non list weapon (hmm, do I buy that one in a million heavy bolter or this sword . . . .?).
Van Saars, the shooty gang get bolt pistol as standard, but not boltgun. :wtf:
Cawdor prefer to get up close to the enemy, where they can unleash their terrible knives :rolleyes: , still no CCW for the Redemptionists, somehow seems wronger than a Nurgle topless bar.
Eschers, still able to get their hands on Heavy Plasmaguns.

An improvement. The lists are still broken though, Generally, I think the availabilty of Bolt and Plasma weapons should be curbed, these guns are notoriously hard get hold of and even harder to maintain. Some of the options, especially the Leader ones still seem to be entirely lead by the models that have been released.

Inquisitor Samos
10-01-2006, 20:03
....... still no CCW for the Redemptionists, somehow seems wronger than a Nurgle topless bar.Heheheh! That was priceless!!! :D

Cherrystone
10-01-2006, 23:16
Couldnt the same argument be used for WFB Bretonians, they dont like to use crossbows and handguns (on mass anyway), its part of their culture. Wouldnt the same be applied to necromunda gangs to a smaller degree?

EVIL INC
11-01-2006, 05:21
Here is an example, Look at the Orlocks, they produce and actually make the weapons and such that is shipped off of necrmunda. I can see them being able to nick pretty much whatever they wanted off of the production lines or out of shipping crates and also be in the position to make it "not have happened" on the paperwork. They should have access to everything in the basic list. Similer stories can be said of the van saar and a couple others through "connections" or some such. Remember most of the gangs are made from houses that produce within the hive. Now, I can also see where other gangs might not have access to everything like the scavvies and so forth. I would rather that the gangs who wouldnt have access (fluffwise) to the weapons need to make a special roll or get old scrappy ones with extra misfire rules and such. I know, I know "more rules!?!?, well, I like them if they add realism and fun to the game/fluff.

TWB
11-01-2006, 11:00
As Cerrystone said though, particular houses have cultural reasons for preferring certain weaponry, there is provision for models to aquire items outside of this.
Gangs themselves are unlikely to have much to do with the aquisition of weapons from factorums, they will either have contacts in hive city or buy from a guilder who sells guns.
It's also worth pointing out that all houses do not make all items available in the list, it's dependant on what contracts they hold, so common in-house supply routs may only be able to supply certain equipment.

marv335
11-01-2006, 12:26
the easiest way to do cultural preferances for weapons is by using the points system.
yes, have seperate lists for each house, but have all weapons on each list but give them points values as appropreate

Bubble Ghost
11-01-2006, 14:12
Couldnt the same argument be used for WFB Bretonians, they dont like to use crossbows and handguns (on mass anyway), its part of their culture. Wouldnt the same be applied to necromunda gangs to a smaller degree?

This is exactly my argument for getting rid of house weapon lists: gangers' culture is that they're Underhivers, not that they're members of X House. House allegiance becomes secondary to the aim of scraping by in the Underhive using whatever comes to hand, which is what helped create that sense of atmosphere.

The Judge
11-01-2006, 14:59
They suck (not just the weapon rules, the entire Underhive book), and I certainly do not use them in my campaigns.

As a Necromunda campaign "GM," I actually use the old book over the new one, which I don't own.

Grimshawl
11-01-2006, 16:13
I have both old and new, truthfully the new has very few changes or additions, however the changes were not positive ones, the house weapons lists were poorly thought out and poorly exacuted, the new book was shoddy and the few changes were so few that a breif FAQ covers all of it instead of bringing out a whole new edition, house lists currently do not ballance or improve upon the game, they serve no usefull purpose and detrimentally restrict modelling creativity and gang diversity.

EVIL INC
11-01-2006, 18:21
There are only two gang which prefers particuler weapons because of thier culture. That would be redemtionists and thier flamers and the cawdor because of thier ties to the redemptionists. The others, I can see taking what they can get and not caring so long as they work. Now, the rich gangs might prefer to buy better quality, but that would be better quality of the same thing rather then a cultural choice of choosing that type. Then again, ones like the ratskins and scavvies might prefer the older muskets and stuff because of a distrust of the more advanced weapons but that belied by thier use of las guns. Of course, plague zombies have a "tooth and nail" culture. lol

I like the idea of having a different weapons list for each house with the weapons costing more or less due to thier availability and cultural ties.

t-tauri
11-01-2006, 19:24
It's too hamfisted a way of trying to introduce diversity. Instead of gently poking towards certain weapons it almost rigidly enforces them. It also gives too big an advantage or disadvantage in terms of cost and access. A few credits shaved off or added on (10%, 20% for really rare or common stuff)would have been a better way.

Maybe an advantage with ammo or skill rolls or bonus experience for using the "cultural weapon" would be another way to do it.

EVIL INC
11-01-2006, 19:58
Yes, it is almost as though they are classifiing the houses dueto thier weapon choice. Consider it like this, it is the same thing as saying all native americans are hatchet swinging drunkards. That is not true. While we have a tendancy to become alchoholics more easily and the tomahawk is one of our classic weapons, does not mean that the native americans did not have access to other weapons. The same can be said of any other minority in any nation. On necromunda, the gangs are the minorities. rather large well armed and feared ones true, but in comparison with the billions or reguler joes, mechs, aristos ect, they are a minority. They are as individualistic and varied as anyone else. Just because they fly colors doesnt remove thier individuality.

Cherrystone
11-01-2006, 21:48
The lists arnt very restricting just give up one roll on the rare chart. As the gang grows these rolls are plenty and in away this is quite relistic as the gang spreads and increases its collection of 'individuals' other weapons outside their immediate 'culture' will be introduced into the gang.

TWB
12-01-2006, 04:18
House allegiance becomes secondary to the aim of scraping by in the Underhive using whatever comes to hand

I figure it the other way, yes they are in the underhive, but they stick together in familiar groups, with people who have the same attitude and outlook, people who speak the same language, If house alleigance didn't matter than gang types wouldn't be choices in the game.


There are only two gang which prefers particuler weapons because of thier culture. That would be redemtionists and thier flamers and the cawdor because of thier ties to the redemptionists. The others, I can see taking what they can get and not caring so long as they work. Now, the rich gangs might prefer to buy better quality, but that would be better quality of the same thing rather then a cultural choice of choosing that type. Then again, ones like the ratskins and scavvies might prefer the older muskets and stuff because of a distrust of the more advanced weapons but that belied by thier use of las guns. Of course, plague zombies have a "tooth and nail" culture. lol

Each house has a different cultural identity which can be summed up by what skills are available to their juves, By their code/style of dress and, yes, by their preference of weapon.
A Delaque ganger may well prefer a small semi-automatic stubber to a Bolt pistol for weight and ease of concealment issues, A Goliath fighter may well want to pick the biggest heaviest gun he can lay his hands on, to show how strong he is etc etc.


I like the idea of having a different weapons list for each house with the weapons costing more or less due to thier availability and cultural ties.

I'd go with this, a discount on certain items when the gang starts up (this is where a well thought out house weapon list would work, listing which items are discounted) although the full cost would be used to work out gang rating ;).


Yes, it is almost as though they are classifiing the houses dueto thier weapon choice. Consider it like this, it is the same thing as saying all native americans are hatchet swinging drunkards. That is not true. While we have a tendancy to become alchoholics more easily and the tomahawk is one of our classic weapons, does not mean that the native americans did not have access to other weapons. The same can be said of any other minority in any nation. On necromunda, the gangs are the minorities. rather large well armed and feared ones true, but in comparison with the billions or reguler joes, mechs, aristos ect, they are a minority. They are as individualistic and varied as anyone else. Just because they fly colors doesnt remove thier individuality.

Native Americans certainly never used a Scimitar or a Boomerang, I doubt they used many Katana or Mangbetu, while calling Native americans "hatchet swinging drunkards" is mildly racist, listing a set of weapons that they commonly used or preffered, tomahawks, war clubs, spear, bow & arrow etc etc etc, is just observing their their weapons, alcohol and firearms are just what they managed to get hold of by sacrificing a couple of rolls on the rare trade chart, if you get my meaning.

The "average joes" that live in hive city are still members of a house,they will still observe special holidays significant to the house, they will still use the same language and have similar sensibilities, a hive city worker who decides to head downhive to seek his fortune is still the same person with the same outlook, ideas and beliefs, where he is and the fact he carries a gun are largely irrelevant, he'll stick with people he knows (When in a foreign country, you'll hear your mother tongue spoken softly over 100 locals shouting).

Sir_Turalyon
12-01-2006, 14:19
House Weapons inpresent form is silly concep that should be more worked upon. Or better, dropped.

I have yet to see Nacromuda player treating it seriously.


Was there anything in Necromunda 2nd Ed that was actually an improvement over the original rules?


Firing D3 shots instead of scoring sustained fire dice hits after one to hit roll. More shots + greater chance of jam = funnier game.

Sai-Lauren
12-01-2006, 14:43
House Weapons inpresent form is silly concep that should be more worked upon. Or better, dropped.

Put it this way, that's one of the reasons I didn't upgrade to v2.

IMO, the gangs are there as "unofficial" foot soldiers for the industrial houses, to search out useful deposits of archeotech and minerals, water, energy sources and so on, to protect house property and interests and to damage rival houses property and interests, and if they can make a little extra wealth for themselves and enhance their prospects so that when the house finally officially employs them, they're more senior than they would otherwise be, then great.
Open warfare would be very harmful, and the ruling house would certainly crack down on them if it happened, but if a rival house was attacked by an "unsanctioned operation, performed by a group of exiles" *wink wink*, then they would get the blame, not their house, and whilst Hive City is relatively peaceful - mainly because the house fathers don't want to be woken up, or for members of the noble houses to be woken up in the middle of the night by loud bangs - the underhive, a much more lawless place, will still have places where the houses have interests, even if it's only a settlement that they can launch expeditions from. To me, the houses are little more than ancient criminal organisations that have control over a vast array of industrial facilities, and any alliances are signed with knives hidden behind the signatories backs.

Any individualism would come from their styles of weapons, and the designs on them, like Eschers have poiniards, Orlocks have Bowie knives and so on, not the availabilty of the weapons they arm themselves with. Yes, an Escher's more likely to have a sword over an axe, and vice versa for a Goliath, but that's not to say that there's Goliaths out there who don't practise with a sword every minute they can, or a particularly psychotic young Escher girl looking at a fireaxe and giggling maniacally to herself.

Bubble Ghost
12-01-2006, 15:25
I figure it the other way, yes they are in the underhive, but they stick together in familiar groups, with people who have the same attitude and outlook, people who speak the same language, If house alleigance didn't matter than gang types wouldn't be choices in the game.

I'm not saying it doesn't matter at all - if it was irrelevant they wouldn't look different or have different skill progression. But introducing a rule stating that they voluntarily limit the equipment they use based on mere preference is implying that they value their House identity above practicality. The Underhive, though, is a downtrodden community of people whose lives are devoted to survival - voluntarily limiting yourself is a luxury. That they have this luxury undermines the whole reason that they join gangs in the first place, i.e. to pool their resources and improve their lot in life. It implies that they're going out and blasting away at other gangs purely because they enjoy it, or out of greed rather than perceived necessity. That's alien to the way the Underhive is portrayed, and slices whole layers of depth out from under the setting by reducing it to another excuse for a shoot-'em-up. Strange how such a subtle thing can have such a big effect on the atmosphere.

I think the different availability of skills is more than enough to nudge you in the direction of picking appropriate weaponry. Quite apart from that, having no House weapon lists simply gives you more variety and modelling opportunities, and doesn't give you that uncomfortable feeling that you're not quite playing 'properly' if you pick a weapon that isn't on the list. You can develop your own character for your gang without it being stuffed down your throat by the rulebook, which was always one of Necromunda's strengths for me. It's a game for people who don't need that kind of hand-holding.

Not that it matters in the end, I suppose, because you don't have to use the weapon lists (and I don't). But all the same, it's a little depressing.



IMO, the gangs are there as "unofficial" foot soldiers for the industrial houses, to search out useful deposits of archeotech and minerals, water, energy sources and so on, to protect house property and interests and to damage rival houses property and interests, and if they can make a little extra wealth for themselves and enhance their prospects so that when the house finally officially employs them, they're more senior than they would otherwise be, then great.

Not at all. Many people in the Underhive are refugees from Hive City, looking to get away from it and try to forge a new life (this is a big part of where Necromunda's wild west imagery comes from), and the Underhive as a whole is completely beyond the influence of the Houses. The gangs aren't there to damage other Houses' property and interests, because the Houses don't have any property or interests in the Underhive. That wealth and freedom is the whole motivation of gangers, not a bonus.

EVIL INC
12-01-2006, 15:46
Any individualism would come from their styles of weapons, and the designs on them, like Eschers have poiniards, Orlocks have Bowie knives and so on, not the availabilty of the weapons they arm themselves with. Yes, an Escher's more likely to have a sword over an axe, and vice versa for a Goliath, but that's not to say that there's Goliaths out there who don't practise with a sword every minute they can, or a particularly psychotic young Escher girl looking at a fireaxe and giggling maniacally to herself.




I think the different availability of skills is more than enough to nudge you in the direction of picking appropriate weaponry. Quite apart from that, having no House weapon lists simply gives you more variety and modelling opportunities, and doesn't give you that uncomfortable feeling that you're not quite playing 'properly' if you pick a weapon that isn't on the list. You can develop your own character for your gang without it being stuffed down your throat by the rulebook, which was always one of Necromunda's strengths for me. It's a game for people who don't need that kind of hand-holding.

These two pretty much said what I was thinking and was not able to get into words.:rolleyes:
Look at the particuler sub gangs within the houses. They often have very different images and personalities. While they may belong to the same "house" they have very different fighting styles, ways of thinking and generally, different cultures depending on thier particuler background, location within the hive and so forth.

Sai-Lauren
12-01-2006, 17:08
Not at all. Many people in the Underhive are refugees from Hive City, looking to get away from it and try to forge a new life (this is a big part of where Necromunda's wild west imagery comes from), and the Underhive as a whole is completely beyond the influence of the Houses. The gangs aren't there to damage other Houses' property and interests, because the Houses don't have any property or interests in the Underhive. That wealth and freedom is the whole motivation of gangers, not a bonus.
So, why are they house gangs? Why are there no gangs where the leader is an Orlock, his lieutenants a Delaque and there's three Eschers and four Goliaths running with them, with a Van Saar heavy? If they're out for themselves, then the needs of survival, coupled with the leaders own force of personality would over-ride any old rivalries.

There's no interest of the industrial families in the underhive? What about archeotech, minerals, water and energy sources as I already mentioned.

How about that when the hive grows, the factories don't just rise up with it, they won't be abandoned until there's too much of the hive pushing down upon them, so there could still be working factories down at hive bottom, staffed by locals from the nearest settlement and the produce brought up hive by the guilders.

How about making sure little Johnny and his friends come back safely from their spider hunting trip, or little lost Susie is brought home safely, having got on the wrong elevator and wound up three hundred levels down before you know what's happening?

What about those wolf spider-silk suits and dresses, spider eye jewellery, fang walking canes and so on the house elders wear at Lord Helmar's official funtions - they have to come from somewhere, and if you've got someone who can get them for you for a lot cheaper than the guiders will charge you, it's a distinct bonus.

How about keeping hostages from rival houses safe and secure, nicely out of reach of their kin?

And who says all gangs limit their activities to the underhive alone? If an opposing factions factory is weakly defended, then it would strengthen their own family if it were taken out of commission, no matter where it is in the hive. The gang is disposable if the Arbites investigate too hard, the profits it would generate aren't.

Bubble Ghost
12-01-2006, 18:53
So, why are they house gangs? Why are there no gangs where the leader is an Orlock, his lieutenants a Delaque and there's three Eschers and four Goliaths running with them, with a Van Saar heavy?

I think there would be the odd gang like that, although they'd be very much the exceptions. The real reason is gaming, of course, so you've got distinct flavours of gang for players to get their teeth into. But also:

House traditions are so strong and their identities so distinct that even in the Underhive gangs are formed from gangers of one House.



There's no interest of the industrial families in the underhive? What about archeotech, minerals, water and energy sources as I already mentioned.
I'm sure they are interested, but the Underhive is so lawless that they couldn't possibly hope to employ anyone honest to sort it out for them. Gangs do sell all that stuff, but to get themselves rich, not because they're specifically employed to do it.

The aim of every gang leader, and eventually ever ganger, is to get rich and move uphive. Some return to Hive City, where their new wealth enables them to live in luxury for years. Most dream of freedom in the Spire, away from the filth of Hive City and the repression of family patriarchs.

The real problem is that there's nothing in any of the background to suggest that Houses have any control over what gangs do beyond in an abstract fashion based on cultural influence - quite the opposite, in fact, as the tone of individuality and survival rings through everything in the books. Necromunda is essentially a Western setting, and that kind of defiant, enterprising spirit is a key element in what makes it so strong.